The Falling Away

throughfiierytrial

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Is the Apostacy, or Falling Away, the same as the love of many waxing cold, as told to us by Christ in Matthew 24?

Are both happening today, right before our eyes?

There is a specific sequence of events being laid out in Matthew 24. That being so, if we are in the apostacy, then the end is very near, and should guard ourselves against growing cold ourselves.

Is growing cold simply just a lack of love and care, or is it also to do with compromise with the world? Or are there even more aspects of it?

I would love to hear some interesting thoughts on these questions. Let's try our best to be edifying in our answers. Be blessed :)
I believe we could well be very near the end. Guarded thinking though because we know there have been many evil days in world history like WWII and the rise and fall of nations past...evil days preceded such events as well as the days which pursue. A match to such wickedness as we see today carried out in broad daylight so to speak and unabashed liars at high levels of governments hardly seems possible. Nations rising against nation is mentioned in Matthew 24:7 as a sign of the coming end and all that such wars entail probably present much the same as the very end...evil and corruption precede the fall of a nation.
Differences of the rise and fall of nations of past and today's world conditions may exist and possibly be witnessed in that at this time it seems to involve a pervasive and insidious evil covering the face of the globe...corrupting the minds of young and old alike and can be found in many churches.
I believe that the warning you mention from Matthew 24...because of the increase of wickedness the love of most will grow cold...refers to our love for Christ growing cold and not a general callousness of heart...well, perhaps one would say that the two attributes are intertwined though. My thoughts on this are partly in reliance on Luke 18:8
...However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”
This seems to relate to Matthew 24 and the falling away.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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I believe that the warning you mention from Matthew 24...because of the increase of wickedness the love of most will grow cold...refers to our love for Christ growing cold and not a general callousness of heart...well, perhaps one would say that the two attributes are intertwined though. My thoughts on this are partly in reliance on Luke 18:8]
Please explain how you differentiate the two, as I see no difference at all.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Please explain how you differentiate the two, as I see no difference at all.
See no difference in what?
General callousness of heart vs love of Christ grows cold?
Love for Christ growing cold happens in believers...love in general growing cold can happen to the unbeliever as well. So depends on which type of love Jesus is referring to in Matthew 24.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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See no difference in what?
General callousness of heart vs love of Christ grows cold?
Love for Christ growing cold happens in believers...love in general growing cold can happen to the unbeliever as well. So depends on which type of love Jesus is referring to in Matthew 24.
I thought both referred to believers, describing the same condition. Can you reference scripture differentiating both, please?
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Reference love of the unbelievers growing cold? You are a bit vague in your questions leaving me to guess what you are having trouble with in my statements.
The unbelievers hearts are cold and warm...not toward God but to fellowman...see Romans 2:14-15:
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
Matthew 5:46-48:
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

I am not stating that Jesus' statement refers to unbelievers but to believers. My initial post was assuming you meant mankind in general. My belief is that the love that grows cold referenced in Matthew 24 is speaking of the love of God growing cold. Hope I am clear this time.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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Reference love of the unbelievers growing cold? You are a bit vague in your questions leaving me to guess what you are having trouble with in my statements.
The unbelievers hearts are cold and warm...not toward God but to fellowman...see Romans 2:14-15:
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
Matthew 5:46-48:
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

I am not stating that Jesus' statement refers to unbelievers but to believers. My initial post was assuming you meant mankind in general. My belief is that the love that grows cold referenced in Matthew 24 is speaking of the love of God growing cold. Hope I am clear this time.
My apologies. I assumed that Jesus was referring to believers as He spoke of the world being in the grip of the world, and disciples being known as those who have love one for another.

If the world loses its love, it's not the disappointment that is the loss of love of believers, seeing is the world has a wrong concept of love. Love is a person, His Name is Jesus. If our connection to Him grows cold, then that is the same as drifting away from Him. Is it not?
 
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parousia70

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There is a specific sequence of events being laid out in Matthew 24. That being so, if we are in the apostacy, then the end is very near, and should guard ourselves against growing cold ourselves.

When you say "the end is very Near" do you mean the same thing the apostles meant when they looked at the signs around them and likewise came to the conclusion the end was "very near", or are you using a different definition of the term than they used?
 
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SongOnTheWind

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When you say "the end is very Near" do you mean the same thing the apostles meant when they looked at the signs around them and likewise came to the conclusion the end was "very near", or are you using a different definition of the term than they used?
Yeah, I know it's been 200o yrs lol. But seriously, I really feel like all signs are pointing to an imminent end, within our lifetime/generation. Like the stage is being set. I could be wrong though :)
 
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parousia70

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The number of Christians around the world has more than quadrupled in the last 110 years alone, from about 600 million in 1910 to more than 2.5 Billion in 2020.
Projections through 2050 show the trend continuing, and the Global Christian population will reach 3.4 Billion.
https://www.gordonconwell.edu/cente...020/01/Status-of-Global-Christianity-2020.pdf

There are more Christians today than there were yesterday, and there will be more tomorrow than there are today.
Nothing can stop this. (Matthew 16:18)
This is the opposite of falling away.
 
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parousia70

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Yeah, I know it's been 200o yrs lol. But seriously, I really feel like all signs are pointing to an imminent end, within our lifetime/generation. Like the stage is being set. I could be wrong though :)

Just seems weird to me that someone could claim the apostles got it wrong, but folks today have it right.
Kind of a red flag IMO.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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Just seems weird to me that someone could claim the apostles got it wrong, but folks today have it right.
Kind of a red flag IMO.
When did I ever say such a thing? Please point it out to me, I will rectify it immediately.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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My apologies. I assumed that Jesus was referring to believers as He spoke of the world being in the grip of the world, and disciples being known as those who have love one for another.

If the world loses its love, it's not the disappointment that is the loss of love of believers, seeing is the world has a wrong concept of love. Love is a person, His Name is Jesus. If our connection to Him grows cold, then that is the same as drifting away from Him. Is it not?
Yes, and Jesus is love just as you write. One may have to go on to define love with all its peaceful and humbling attributes but to also include rebuking, exhorting and encouraging, calling out sin for what it is, etc. which are the more difficult instructions, but lead to salvation as well.
Sorry we misunderstood one another! :)
 
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throughfiierytrial

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The number of Christians around the world has more than quadrupled in the last 110 years alone, from about 600 million in 1910 to more than 2.5 Billion in 2020.
Projections through 2050 show the trend continuing, and the Global Christian population will reach 3.4 Billion.
https://www.gordonconwell.edu/cente...020/01/Status-of-Global-Christianity-2020.pdf

There are more Christians today than there were yesterday, and there will be more tomorrow than there are today.
Nothing can stop this. (Matthew 16:18)
This is the opposite of falling away.
I don't believe your numbers and what are these Christians? Many are so in name only...God knows the heart.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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Yes, and Jesus is love just as you write. One may have to go on to define love with all its peaceful and humbling attributes but to also include rebuking, exhorting and encouraging, calling out sin for what it is, etc. which are the more difficult instructions, but lead to salvation as well.
Sorry we misunderstood one another! :)
It happens, glad we worked it out :oldthumbsup:
 
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parousia70

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When did I ever say such a thing? Please point it out to me, I will rectify it immediately.
You said "The end is very soon"
I pointed out that The Apostles also said the end was "Very Soon"
You replied "Yeah, I know it's been 2000 yrs lol. But seriously, I really feel like all signs are pointing to an imminent end, within our lifetime/generation."

Ergo, you feel the apostles were wrong to believe and teach the end was imminent in their generation (since you know it's been 2000 years), but you really feel you're right that the end is imminent in ours.

I simply find any position that requires the apostles were in error to be highly suspect.

Again, unless of course you are using a different definition of near, soon & imminent than the apostles were using.
Are you?
 
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parousia70

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I don't believe your numbers and what are these Christians? Many are so in name only...God knows the heart.
I'm Happy to examine any numbers you have that contradict the ones I provided.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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You said "The end is very soon"
I pointed out that The Apostles also said the end was "Very Soon"
You replied "Yeah, I know it's been 2000 yrs lol. But seriously, I really feel like all signs are pointing to an imminent end, within our lifetime/generation."

Ergo, you feel the apostles were wrong to believe and teach the end was imminent in their generation, but you really feel you're right that the end is imminent in ours.

Again, unless of course you are using a different definition of near, soon & imminent than the apostles were using.
Are you?
Actually no. I know better than to argue with scripture. Just because I think the end may come in my lifetime doesn't mean I thought they or Jesus who said it first, is wrong. The bible says that a day is as a thousand years to God, and a thousand years, as a day.

Feel free to disagree, but please don't accuse someone of going against scripture just because you misunderstand them. Better to clarify their point first. I am sure you would like the same courtesy extended to you. I am not here to argue a point, but rather to have a constructive and edifying discussion.

Be blessed :)
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Just seems weird to me that someone could claim the apostles got it wrong, but folks today have it right.
Kind of a red flag IMO.
I'm Happy to examine any numbers you have that contradict the ones I provided.
Already stated why I do not believe your numbers...many are Christian in name only and we have perversion in many, many churches today and all around the world...very different perversion than exited in the time of the Apostle.
Further, on your comment to SongOnTheWind ...Jesus told the Apostles all the signs of the end existed in their time, but, to watch. We know the return of Jesus will be much as a thief in the night so I don't understand your criticism. We watch for all the signs while we watch and wait and cry out to Jesus ..."Come, Lord Jesus".
 
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