The falling away (of the Church), is far slower,, than men expect (selah)

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So I worked this out for myself, but I thought I had better share it - and stay in the right spirit, than be alone in my interpretation of where the Church stands.

The falling away (of the Church), is far slower,, than men expect (selah)

Essentially, people become aware that the falling away is happening, but they can't draw conclusion from that, that it means "this" or "that" thing. It takes centuries, not decades. Understanding this, is key to resisting the Devil.

The Devil would have the Church fall immediately, and would confirm his accusation in secret, with which he accuses the brethren before God. Unable to determine what is falling or when, the Devil's accusations fall on deaf ears, and those who share in strength over the Devil (because of this) become inheritors with the Church. In becoming inheritors with the Church, the Church is justified - even as She falls. This is what God is waiting for: will the Church prove faithful not knowing that He - the Lord - may even test Her, though He does not.

The point is that everything in its time, has justification from God. Solomon talks extensively about this in Ecclesiastes. The Buddhists practice this, daily. Many faiths are justified like this, putting into Mammon the charity that would be missing without it. As Jesus said, the steward that invites the indebted to share in his calling, will be called blessed, by a wise master. Only those irreparably caught up in the way of the Devil, will fall because of this. Even then, the Devil may remember his old way and relent. I'm not saying that this is guaranteed, but it is possible.

Remember that they cast lots, for the Lord's clothing - the world waits to see what will be said of Jesus, always mourning when it is almost completely lost. We must be mindful of this, they did not quickly kill the Lord, to have it over with. Even those that kill, thinking it is a favour to God, end up thinking "how much more, is God?" - we are blessed in this respect. As Revelation promises, "blest are those who die in the Lord from now on"; the Church blesses many times over, even as She falls. We do not necessarily need to know what the blessing is, but being blessed know that we are in white, in the Lord's Bride.

Most of all, the Children are free - for the falling away, is to them a mere "thing of the Spirit", which they are blessed to be received in: the elderly also, will look back and laugh at the length men came, when they realised their falling was not at an end (truly, the Church will convict them, to the last).

So yes, be encouraged - the falling away is certainly nothing to be feared!

 

[Original Happy Camper]

this link will help those interested in the progression of falling away

https://amazingdiscoveries.org/assets/PDF/eBooks/THE_FALLING_AWAY.pdf

The Falling Away From Truth
by George Burnside

200 AD Immersion of infants who are dying, but considered sinless. (Tertullian V.12)
250 AD North Africa region is first to practice infant baptism and reduced the age of baptism from minors to all newborns. This is opposed by other regions.
257 AD Baptism by sprinkling for adults instead of immersion first used as an exception for those on sick beds, but

 

[Gottservant]

Just as a side note, from this: there will be some that are quickened in the Age of the Holy Spirit, and those that will not.

To believe in the Holy Spirit, not be quickened, and still keep your place is rare.

Once the Age of the Holy Spirit is complete, those that kept their faith, will enter into Heaven on Earth (to begin with).

 

[Servant78]

Imho the Falling away means the tasteless salt. Like the story of good Samaritan where the Priest pretended did not see people needed help.

 

[ewq1938]

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Here the second coming is called "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and the rapture is called "our gathering together unto him".

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

This day of Christ is directly linked to the two events of verse 1. Clearly the day of Christ is the day of the second coming and rapture. Paul wants people NOT to be troubled or confused about when these two events happen.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Do not let anyone deceive you about when those two events happen! That day (second coming and rapture) will NOT take place until the Apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin take place and those are great tribulation related events. This proves that Paul placed the rapture after the events of the great tribulation and it's the second time Paul did this. He did the same here:



2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (also known as the second coming) , and by our gathering together unto him, (reference to the Rapture)

There is a reference to the second coming and the Rapture! That's the subject!

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

A second second coming reference!


2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That is the Antichrist! Claiming to be God causes the Apostasy or departing from the Christian faith and that takes place withing the great Tribulation. Paul teaches that the second coming and Rapture will NOT happen until the Apostasy and revealing of the man of sin happens plus he mentions that this man of sin will show himself as God and we know that happening during the great tribulation.


2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The context is regarding the timing of the return of Christ and the rapture. That cannot happen until two important things occur.

1. The falling away/Apostasy
2. and the revealing of the Antichrist

Obviously it is the man of sin's appearance which causes the falling away because they fall away from Christ to him, the antichrist or false christ.


So it hasn't happened and isn't happening now. The AC must appear which will be a global event, then those who had followed Christ will follow the AC. Why? IMO he will claim to be Christ so they won't realize they have fallen away from Christ. This happened during the tribulation and as Christ states in Matthew, the second coming is not until the trib has ended.
Why did Paul even write this? Because people were concerned Jesus could just return at any moment without any warning (like a thief in the night) and Paul wanted to clarify that certain events had to happen first. Paul accidentally started the notion of the second coming happening at any time which is the basis for the pre-trib doctrine.

Contextually Paul was not speaking of a long period of falling away. It was a special event where people would stop being Christians and have a new God to worship and it is tied directly to the tribulation and the AC claiming to be God! Clearly it is when people are deceived and begin worshiping the AC because they think he is God. I believe many Christians will think he is Jesus Christ and won't realize they committed Apostasy.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This has not yet happened but it is coming. Remember that the falling away is directly related to someone claiming to be God. They "fall away" to that false god.

Remember Christ's warning:


Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


There will come a time when people will believe Jesus has returned but it will be a false Christ.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


Here the Apostasy is said to happen in the "latter times" as opposed to over a long span of time. This places it at the great tribulation which also is a certain period of time just before the second coming.

 

[Timtofly]

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Here the second coming is called "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and the rapture is called "our gathering together unto him".

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

This day of Christ is directly linked to the two events of verse 1. Clearly the day of Christ is the day of the second coming and rapture. Paul wants people NOT to be troubled or confused about when these two events happen.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Do not let anyone deceive you about when those two events happen! That day (second coming and rapture) will NOT take place until the Apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin take place and those are great tribulation related events. This proves that Paul placed the rapture after the events of the great tribulation and it's the second time Paul did this. He did the same here:



2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (also known as the second coming) , and by our gathering together unto him, (reference to the Rapture)

There is a reference to the second coming and the Rapture! That's the subject!

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

A second second coming reference!


2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That is the Antichrist! Claiming to be God causes the Apostasy or departing from the Christian faith and that takes place withing the great Tribulation. Paul teaches that the second coming and Rapture will NOT happen until the Apostasy and revealing of the man of sin happens plus he mentions that this man of sin will show himself as God and we know that happening during the great tribulation.


2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The context is regarding the timing of the return of Christ and the rapture. That cannot happen until two important things occur.

1. The falling away/Apostasy
2. and the revealing of the Antichrist

Obviously it is the man of sin's appearance which causes the falling away because they fall away from Christ to him, the antichrist or false christ.


So it hasn't happened and isn't happening now. The AC must appear which will be a global event, then those who had followed Christ will follow the AC. Why? IMO he will claim to be Christ so they won't realize they have fallen away from Christ. This happened during the tribulation and as Christ states in Matthew, the second coming is not until the trib has ended.
Why did Paul even write this? Because people were concerned Jesus could just return at any moment without any warning (like a thief in the night) and Paul wanted to clarify that certain events had to happen first. Paul accidentally started the notion of the second coming happening at any time which is the basis for the pre-trib doctrine.

Contextually Paul was not speaking of a long period of falling away. It was a special event where people would stop being Christians and have a new God to worship and it is tied directly to the tribulation and the AC claiming to be God! Clearly it is when people are deceived and begin worshiping the AC because they think he is God. I believe many Christians will think he is Jesus Christ and won't realize they committed Apostasy.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This has not yet happened but it is coming. Remember that the falling away is directly related to someone claiming to be God. They "fall away" to that false god.

Remember Christ's warning:


Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


There will come a time when people will believe Jesus has returned but it will be a false Christ.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


Here the Apostasy is said to happen in the "latter times" as opposed to over a long span of time. This places it at the great tribulation which also is a certain period of time just before the second coming.

Satan is this "son of perdition" and "man of sin". Satan was already at work in the first century, and has never stopped working since then. Is Satan going to hold a press conference and declare he has deceived the world, and that the church has apostasized? Or have people been trying to "oust Satan's deception" to the world, and all they get is mockery and ridicule in return?

What has to happen to show that Satan has already deceived the church, and they fell for it hook, line, and sinker?

 

[ewq1938]

Satan is this "son of perdition" and "man of sin".

Perhaps but how do you answer the fact that the man of sin beast is cast alive into the lake of fire but satan is not, but instead is cast into the pit?

What has to happen to show that Satan has already deceived the church, and they fell for it hook, line, and sinker?

The Apostasia Paul wrote of was directly related to the appearance of the man of sin and his declaration of being god. Whatever is and has been happening to some of the church is a different situation.

 

[Timtofly]

Perhaps but how do you answer the fact that the man of sin beast is cast alive into the lake of fire but satan is not, but instead is cast into the pit?

The Apostasia Paul wrote of was directly related to the appearance of the man of sin and his declaration of being god. Whatever is and has been happening to some of the church is a different situation.

"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"

That wicked being revealed is not the "man of sin" nor "son of perdition". That wicked is what is destroyed and cast into the LOF, not Satan the "man of sin" and "son of perdition."

"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time."

Both Satan will be revealed, and that wicked as well. But it was/has been Satan since Paul's time and even before Paul. That wicked is a beast created only after the Second Coming and destroyed at Armageddon.

 

[ewq1938]

"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"

That wicked being revealed is not the "man of sin" nor "son of perdition". That wicked is what is destroyed and cast into the LOF, not Satan the "man of sin" and "son of perdition."

"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time."

Both Satan will be revealed, and that wicked as well. But it was/has been Satan since Paul's time and even before Paul. That wicked is a beast created only after the Second Coming and destroyed at Armageddon.

You didn't answer the question: How do you answer the fact that the man of sin beast is cast alive into the lake of fire but satan is not, but instead is cast into the pit?

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Here the man of sin beast is cast into the lake of fire but satan is not:

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Satan does not go into the lake of fire but goes into the pit.

 

[Timtofly]

You didn't answer the question: How do you answer the fact that the man of sin beast is cast alive into the lake of fire but satan is not, but instead is cast into the pit?

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Here the man of sin beast is cast into the lake of fire but satan is not:

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Satan does not go into the lake of fire but goes into the pit.

The time of the beast and the FP is up. They are no longer going to do anything on earth, assumingly, ever again. Satan is going to be loosed at the end of the 1,000 year reign.

Are you asking why the beast is cast into the LOF, if not even human? That will be answered if that beast is ever given life. Why does anything have to go into the LOF? Why not not just remove them from existence altogether? Only God can answer that question.

 

[ewq1938]

The time of the beast and the FP is up. They are no longer going to do anything on earth, assumingly, ever again. Satan is going to be loosed at the end of the 1,000 year reign.

You said, "Satan is this "son of perdition" and "man of sin"."

How can satan be the man of sin (one of the two beasts) that are cast into the lake of fire but also not be cast into the lake of fire? There is a contradiction here that you are not addressing.

 

[Timtofly]

You said, "Satan is this "son of perdition" and "man of sin"."

How can satan be the man of sin (one of the two beasts) that are cast into the lake of fire but also not be cast into the lake of fire? There is a contradiction here that you are not addressing.

It is not a contradiction of Scripture. It is a contradiction of most poster's interpretation.

John never claims the beast is a human being, but is considered to have the ability to think. The only human is the FP. Satan is the beast with two lamb's horns speaking as a dragon. Satan is bound in the pit. Only the beast and FP are cast into the Lake of Fire.

The issue is that in 2 Thessalonians 2 many associate "that wicked" as being the "man of sin" and "son of perdition". That wicked is the AoD set up by Satan. The FP is not mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2. Satan is the man of sin and son of perdition working behind the scenes for 2500 years. No human being can live that long. Revelation 13 introduces the FP, then Satan, and then the AoD. Only the AoD can be the beast cast into the LOF at Armageddon.

You do realize the left behind series, all of them is based on interpretation, imagination of the writers. They all portray a powerful human "world leader". None of them actually have a FP, nor Satan in charge. Yet in Revelation Satan and the FP are front and center, and together they set up the AoD. John in Revelation never emphasizes a powerful world leader, but a FP. Revelation 13 states the first beast is empowered by Satan. Then it says the next beast also has all that power and authority. Satan is the one with all the power and authority at this time. Not some made up charismatic leader working alone. One cannot use the left behind series to interpret the book of Revelation.

Placing the rapture at the beginning of all the trouble in Revelation was a great start in modern thinking, but separating the rapture from a Second Coming was wrong. The Second Coming is the game changer that changes the whole geographical and political landscape of the world. That is why John declares a new political beast rising in Revelation 13. But it is after the 7th Trumpet has sounded, that God allows Satan to exercise any political maneuvers. Most people put all this years before the Second Coming and try to figure out how it fits in today's world. It cannot. Revelation 13 only happens if necessary, not a sign the Second Coming is about to happen. That point is why one cannot use the left behind series to interpret the book of Revelation. The rapture and Second Coming are the same event.

 

[ewq1938]

Only the beast and FP are cast into the Lake of Fire.

Are they killed first and then cast into the lake of fire or are they alive when they are cast into the lake of fire?

 

[Zao is life]

That is the Antichrist! Claiming to be God causes the Apostasy or departing from the Christian faith and that takes place withing the great Tribulation.

1. The falling away/Apostasy
2. and the revealing of the Antichrist

Obviously it is the man of sin's appearance which causes the falling away because they fall away from Christ to him, the antichrist or false christ.

I agree with everything you said except the part I made bold, because in Matthew 24:9-10 Jesus makes it very clear that it's the [G2346 θλῖψις thlîpsis] tribulation that causes the [G4624 σκανδαλίζω skandalízō] falling away:

If you compare it with Matthew 13:21, you will understand the principle:

Matthew 13:21 "But he has no root in himself, and is temporary. For when [G2346 θλῖψις thlîpsis] tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, he immediately [G4624 σκανδαλίζω skandalízō] stumbles."

Matthew 24:9 "Then they will deliver you up to [G2346 θλῖψις thlîpsis] tribulation and will kill you. And you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake. And then many will [G4624 σκανδαλίζω skandalízō] be offended, and will betray one another, and will hate one another."

It's the same word: [G4624 σκανδαλίζω skandalízō] and it's referring to a falling away/apostasy caused by tribulation.

Matthew 24 links this falling away to lawlessness and false Christs and prophets arising and "showing great signs and wonders; so much so that, if it were possible, they would deceive even the elect" (Matthew 24:11-12 & 24), and so does Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2.

Both passages link it to the time of the end and lawlessness (Matthew 24:13-14 & 29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 & 7-12).

So in the Olivet Discourse the apostasy is said to be caused by the tribulation. So this may also be what causes them to follow the man of sin. There will also be Christians betraying one another and hating one another (Matthew 24:10).

 

[ewq1938]

I agree with everything you said except the part I made bold, because in Matthew 24:9-10 Jesus makes it very clear that it's the [G2346 θλῖψις thlîpsis] tribulation that causes the [G4624 σκανδαλίζω skandalízō] falling away:

Apostasy means to fall away from something you believe in and in the NT it is always of a religious nature. One will fall away from Christ and Christianity to something else. In this case it's falling away to the false god performing miracles to deceive people. The Apostates don't fall a3ay due to tribulation because they aren't the ones experiencing tribulation. It's the ones who remain faithful to Christ that face satan's tribulation.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Here the second coming is called "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and the rapture is called "our gathering together unto him".

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

This day of Christ is directly linked to the two events of verse 1. Clearly the day of Christ is the day of the second coming and rapture. Paul wants people NOT to be troubled or confused about when these two events happen.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Do not let anyone deceive you about when those two events happen! That day (second coming and rapture) will NOT take place until the Apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin take place and those are great tribulation related events. This proves that Paul placed the rapture after the events of the great tribulation and it's the second time Paul did this. He did the same here:



2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (also known as the second coming) , and by our gathering together unto him, (reference to the Rapture)

There is a reference to the second coming and the Rapture! That's the subject!

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

A second second coming reference!


2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That is the Antichrist! Claiming to be God causes the Apostasy or departing from the Christian faith and that takes place withing the great Tribulation. Paul teaches that the second coming and Rapture will NOT happen until the Apostasy and revealing of the man of sin happens plus he mentions that this man of sin will show himself as God and we know that happening during the great tribulation.


2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The context is regarding the timing of the return of Christ and the rapture. That cannot happen until two important things occur.

1. The falling away/Apostasy
2. and the revealing of the Antichrist

Obviously it is the man of sin's appearance which causes the falling away because they fall away from Christ to him, the antichrist or false christ.


So it hasn't happened and isn't happening now. The AC must appear which will be a global event, then those who had followed Christ will follow the AC. Why? IMO he will claim to be Christ so they won't realize they have fallen away from Christ. This happened during the tribulation and as Christ states in Matthew, the second coming is not until the trib has ended.
Why did Paul even write this? Because people were concerned Jesus could just return at any moment without any warning (like a thief in the night) and Paul wanted to clarify that certain events had to happen first. Paul accidentally started the notion of the second coming happening at any time which is the basis for the pre-trib doctrine.

Contextually Paul was not speaking of a long period of falling away. It was a special event where people would stop being Christians and have a new God to worship and it is tied directly to the tribulation and the AC claiming to be God! Clearly it is when people are deceived and begin worshiping the AC because they think he is God. I believe many Christians will think he is Jesus Christ and won't realize they committed Apostasy.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This has not yet happened but it is coming. Remember that the falling away is directly related to someone claiming to be God. They "fall away" to that false god.

Remember Christ's warning:


Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


There will come a time when people will believe Jesus has returned but it will be a false Christ.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


Here the Apostasy is said to happen in the "latter times" as opposed to over a long span of time. This places it at the great tribulation which also is a certain period of time just before the second coming.


2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[Zao is life]

Apostasy means to fall away from something you believe in and in the NT it is always of a religious nature. One will fall away from Christ and Christianity to something else. In this case it's falling away to the false god performing miracles to deceive people. The Apostates don't fall a3ay due to tribulation because they aren't the ones experiencing tribulation. It's the ones who remain faithful to Christ that face satan's tribulation.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Here the second coming is called "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and the rapture is called "our gathering together unto him".

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

This day of Christ is directly linked to the two events of verse 1. Clearly the day of Christ is the day of the second coming and rapture. Paul wants people NOT to be troubled or confused about when these two events happen.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Do not let anyone deceive you about when those two events happen! That day (second coming and rapture) will NOT take place until the Apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin take place and those are great tribulation related events. This proves that Paul placed the rapture after the events of the great tribulation and it's the second time Paul did this. He did the same here:



2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (also known as the second coming) , and by our gathering together unto him, (reference to the Rapture)

There is a reference to the second coming and the Rapture! That's the subject!

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

A second second coming reference!


2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That is the Antichrist! Claiming to be God causes the Apostasy or departing from the Christian faith and that takes place withing the great Tribulation. Paul teaches that the second coming and Rapture will NOT happen until the Apostasy and revealing of the man of sin happens plus he mentions that this man of sin will show himself as God and we know that happening during the great tribulation.


2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The context is regarding the timing of the return of Christ and the rapture. That cannot happen until two important things occur.

1. The falling away/Apostasy
2. and the revealing of the Antichrist

Obviously it is the man of sin's appearance which causes the falling away because they fall away from Christ to him, the antichrist or false christ.


So it hasn't happened and isn't happening now. The AC must appear which will be a global event, then those who had followed Christ will follow the AC. Why? IMO he will claim to be Christ so they won't realize they have fallen away from Christ. This happened during the tribulation and as Christ states in Matthew, the second coming is not until the trib has ended.
Why did Paul even write this? Because people were concerned Jesus could just return at any moment without any warning (like a thief in the night) and Paul wanted to clarify that certain events had to happen first. Paul accidentally started the notion of the second coming happening at any time which is the basis for the pre-trib doctrine.

Contextually Paul was not speaking of a long period of falling away. It was a special event where people would stop being Christians and have a new God to worship and it is tied directly to the tribulation and the AC claiming to be God! Clearly it is when people are deceived and begin worshiping the AC because they think he is God. I believe many Christians will think he is Jesus Christ and won't realize they committed Apostasy.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This has not yet happened but it is coming. Remember that the falling away is directly related to someone claiming to be God. They "fall away" to that false god.

Remember Christ's warning:


Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


There will come a time when people will believe Jesus has returned but it will be a false Christ.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


Here the Apostasy is said to happen in the "latter times" as opposed to over a long span of time. This places it at the great tribulation which also is a certain period of time just before the second coming.


2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

It's fine that you believe that because it's closely related.

But the reason I don't agree with you is because 2 Thessalonians 2 does not say what causes the apostasy (but Matthew 24:9-10 does say what causes the falling away). The man of sin will probably promise those suffering tribulation all sorts of blessings, and when they see his miracles and lying wonders, and the miracles and lying wonders of the false prophets, they turn and follow the man of sin, and in so doing fall away from faith in the true Christ.

It's the separating of the Lord's sheep from the goats. Tribulation for the sake of the name of Christ is far more likely to cause the goats who believe in Jesus to turn to follow the man of sin:

Matthew 13:21 "But he has no root in himself, and is temporary. For when [G2346 θλῖψις thlîpsis] tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, he immediately [G4624 σκανδαλίζω skandalízō] stumbles."

The tribulation of the time of the end is going to be far greater than anything previously experienced (Matthew 24:9, 21-22). Even during the days of Nero's persecution many fell away.

 

[ewq1938]

It's fine that you believe that because it's closely related.

But the reason I don't agree with you is because 2 Thessalonians 2 does not say what causes the apostasy (but Matthew 24:9-10 does say what causes the falling away).

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

This is not speaking of the Apostasy. The Apostasy would have already happened before the timeframe of these two verses.

People will fall away from Christ to a false Christ in the Apostasy.

 

[Zao is life]

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

This is not speaking of the Apostasy. The Apostasy would have already happened before the timeframe of these two verses.

People will fall away from Christ to a false Christ in the Apostasy.

Well Christians already follow false prophets/teachers working miracles without any tribulation causing them to do so, so that's possible.

 

[Timtofly]

Are they killed first and then cast into the lake of fire or are they alive when they are cast into the lake of fire?

"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

 

[Timtofly]

I agree with everything you said except the part I made bold, because in Matthew 24:9-10 Jesus makes it very clear that it's the [G2346 θλῖψις thlîpsis] tribulation that causes the [G4624 σκανδαλίζω skandalízō] falling away:

If you compare it with Matthew 13:21, you will understand the principle:

Matthew 13:21 "But he has no root in himself, and is temporary. For when [G2346 θλῖψις thlîpsis] tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, he immediately [G4624 σκανδαλίζω skandalízō] stumbles."

Matthew 24:9 "Then they will deliver you up to [G2346 θλῖψις thlîpsis] tribulation and will kill you. And you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake. And then many will [G4624 σκανδαλίζω skandalízō] be offended, and will betray one another, and will hate one another."

It's the same word: [G4624 σκανδαλίζω skandalízō] and it's referring to a falling away/apostasy caused by tribulation.

Matthew 24 links this falling away to lawlessness and false Christs and prophets arising and "showing great signs and wonders; so much so that, if it were possible, they would deceive even the elect" (Matthew 24:11-12 & 24), and so does Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2.

Both passages link it to the time of the end and lawlessness (Matthew 24:13-14 & 29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 & 7-12).

So in the Olivet Discourse the apostasy is said to be caused by the tribulation. So this may also be what causes them to follow the man of sin. There will also be Christians betraying one another and hating one another (Matthew 24:10).

The problem is that all of this tribulation has been ongoing, since the Sanhedrin dragged Stephen before their council and stoned him to death. It went on throughout the next 10 years. It was more intense during the Reformation. It is happening today by Muslims. You don't think the man of sin was/is always at work, or that a falling away was not happening during all those times? Of course all those things have been true since the Cross. This is not a one time experience at the very end.