"The Evolution of a specific survival, is different from the optimal survival for that Evolution"

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,380
704
45
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Hi there,

So I just want to make a simple point:
Gottservant said:
The Evolution of a specific survival, is different from the optimal survival for that Evolution (selah)
The point I am trying to make, is that evolving a specific survival ensures something will be passed on, but that passing on "more" will ensure the given survival will survive for longer. This means that "agency" continues to be important, because if you cannot discern what is optimal, you can never move beyond the response to the initial selection pressure. All selection pressure implies a timeframe. If you cannot negotiate that timeline, then you are abased of the selection you have not at least 'possibly' been able to escape.

This is a function of what you are observing happening when you move from tentative that you have not passed on your genes, to confident you have passed on your genes. The happier you are that you have passed on your genes, the more ability you will have to balance the impact your genes have, with respect to the environment they explore, with the instinct those genes follow. The time it takes to achieve optimality, is critical. Just as the longer you are exposed to the fire, the sooner you will burn, so the longer you put off finding the optimal, the sooner you will be immobilized in your abasement.

This is the truth: there is a difference between what you do and how you do it. There is no way to merge these things and still remain functional. The promise of finding something - like 'Evolution' - is that it won't end with just discovering it, you will have to exercise it. Exercising Evolution then, brings its own rewards: greater and greater optimality being an investment in the changes already made, that they build on each other and not simply remain stagnant. There is hope in this: that one Evolution, serve as all Evolutions are potential. Communicating between one Evolution and another becomes possible, as the spectrum of possibilities presents itself greater than the selection pressures present themselves.

This is what enables "rest" - that Evolution have more optimality at hand, than there are selection pressures to respond to. We have power in this, we have exceeded the expectations of the Devil and are able to adapt after a time, when it suits us - the struggle continues, but it is defined in defeatable terms: we are not bound to the first adaptation that mutation worries us must apply. We can balance this, we can make it mean something - optimality can be shared above and beyond the foundation that some sort of response is necessary, because the root of all responses has been found. It is found in responding to the opportunity to optimize.

If you're going to object to this, please do me the favour of not comparing unconscious adaptation with conscious optimisation - they are different scales of change.
 

Yttrium

Independent Centrist
May 19, 2019
3,874
4,308
Pacific NW
✟244,970.00
Country
United States
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
Single
To "exercise evolution" for people, there are several methods. These include:

Eugenics. Finding a good mating partner isn't good enough. Since evolution is a matter for populations, you have to arrange things on a large scale. It's been handled badly in the past, so we don't do that kind of thing any more.

Mad science. Inflicting selection pressure on a global scale can be fun, but it's difficult to pull off, and you never know what the results might be. We may have arranged some of that with global warming, we'll have to wait and see.
 
Upvote 0

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
12,257
6,447
29
Wales
✟349,750.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
Why do you refuse to learn? You've been told time and time and time again what the theory of evolution actually is and what it isn't, but you continue to make these pointless threads week after week.
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Rocket surgeon
Mar 11, 2017
14,882
11,874
54
USA
✟298,537.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
If you're going to object to this, please do me the favour of not comparing unconscious adaptation with conscious optimisation - they are different scales of change.

What kind of dressing would you like on your word salad? Ranch, Russian, Oil and Vinegar, or Blue Cheese?
 
Upvote 0

TLK Valentine

I've already read the books you want burned.
Apr 15, 2012
64,493
30,319
Behind the 8-ball, but ahead of the curve.
✟541,512.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Why do you refuse to learn? You've been told time and time and time again what the theory of evolution actually is and what it isn't, but you continue to make these pointless threads week after week.

In all fairness, Gottservant has disclosed in other threads that he has been diagnosed with schizophrenia...
 
  • Winner
Reactions: 2PhiloVoid
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,380
704
45
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
In all fairness, Gottservant has disclosed in other threads that he has been diagnosed with schizophrenia...

FYI it is my disintellexia that makes my posts complex, not my schizophrenia - my schizophrenia conflates one thought with one memory, which is not on its own hard to understand.
 
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,380
704
45
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Why do you refuse to learn?

Why do I keep asking for a layman's understanding, of something I am defamed by every day?

You are thinking of Evolution in general - that doesn't interest me? I am asking for a specific concept, one that you would say was "yes! those specific set of causes, lead to Evolution"?

You can't be a leading interpretation, without the possibility of guiding differences of opinion, to a more established conclusion?

Jesus dying on the cross, was the result of prayer, words and commitment to the consequences of those prayers and words, if you are interested in Jesus: I can guide you to evidence of His motive, His conscience and His Spirit.

Why do you refuse to learn (the Gospel)? Why do you not translate what you say is Evolution, into a context that affirms Jesus transcending every possible constraint, including Evolution?

If I mutate the words "the exalted will be humbled and the humbled will be exalted" - I don't get the result that "the exalted will be exalted and the humbled will be humbled": that mutation is eliminated? Because it doesn't make sense? You are never going to evolve exalted exaltedness - please grasp this?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bungle_Bear

Whoot!
Mar 6, 2011
9,084
3,513
✟254,540.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
Why do I keep asking for a layman's understanding, of something I am defamed by every day?

You are thinking of Evolution in general - that doesn't interest me? I am asking for a specific concept, one that you would say was "yes! those specific set of causes, lead to Evolution"?

You can't be a leading interpretation, without the possibility of guiding differences of opinion, to a more established conclusion?

Jesus dying on the cross, was the result of prayer, words and commitment to the consequences of those prayers and words, if you are interested in Jesus: I can guide you to evidence of His motive, His conscience and His Spirit.

Why do you refuse to learn (the Gospel)? Why do you not translate what you say is Evolution, into a context that affirms Jesus transcending every possible constraint, including Evolution?

If I mutate the words "the exalted will be humbled and the humbled will be exalted" - I don't get the result that "the exalted will be exalted and the humbled will be humbled": that mutation is eliminated? Because it doesn't make sense? You are never going to evolve exalted exaltedness - please grasp this?
Trolling.

Please stop.
 
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,380
704
45
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic

If I was trolling, I would say "you should have been a giraffe, not an ape"

You make it sound as if I am imposing on your territory, when actually this forum is accomodating you.

Work out where your negotiables are and start to talk about how much the word of Jesus can refine your use of them? That would help?

Or the phrase "what you can do well, you can do better" - work out how that applies to Evolution?
 
Upvote 0

Bungle_Bear

Whoot!
Mar 6, 2011
9,084
3,513
✟254,540.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
If I was trolling, I would say "you should have been a giraffe, not an ape"

You make it sound as if I am imposing on your territory, when actually this forum is accomodating you.

Work out where your negotiables are and start to talk about how much the word of Jesus can refine your use of them? That would help?

Or the phrase "what you can do well, you can do better" - work out how that applies to Evolution?
You are trolling because you have been given and understood a definition of evolution yet you continue denying it.

If you want to discuss Jesus, that's cool. But it is not an appropriate topic for this sub forum.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,380
704
45
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
You are trolling because you have been given and understood a definition of evolution yet you continue denying it.

If you want to discuss Jesus, that's cool. But it is not an appropriate topic for this sub forum.

It should be an appropriate topic, you are misreading the subtext of your theory to mean "something only experienced after the fact" - I have told you why (your optimism is misplaced).

The subject of Jesus is here used to expound the fact that studying what He did takes more than misguided curtailing of an imaginary theoretical relation.

You are undervaluing your theory, because of the presupposition that you can do it without God - Jesus addresses that.
 
Upvote 0

Bungle_Bear

Whoot!
Mar 6, 2011
9,084
3,513
✟254,540.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
It should be an appropriate topic, you are misreading the subtext of your theory to mean "something only experienced after the fact" - I have told you why (your optimism is misplaced).

The subject of Jesus is here used to expound the fact that studying what He did takes more than misguided curtailing of an imaginary theoretical relation.

You are undervaluing your theory, because of the presupposition that you can do it without God - Jesus addresses that.
Wrong sub forum
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,380
704
45
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Wrong sub forum

No.

Jesus will return, there is no reason to think that later species He returns to, will not evolve.

Are you evolved because you belong to the species, or because the species changes?

Answer (that last question) and I will tell you, by what manner Jesus will evolve.
 
Upvote 0

Bungle_Bear

Whoot!
Mar 6, 2011
9,084
3,513
✟254,540.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
No.

Jesus will return, there is no reason to think that later species He returns to, will not evolve.

Are you evolved because you belong to the species, or because the species changes?

Answer (that last question) and I will tell you, by what manner Jesus will evolve.
Wrong sub forum.
 
Upvote 0

Bungle_Bear

Whoot!
Mar 6, 2011
9,084
3,513
✟254,540.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
You're not engaging with my words, how then can you understand which is the right forum?

You continue to be optimistic about nonsense, sadly I cannot vouch for your sanity.
If you want to preach, take it to the right sub forum. If you want to talk science, then talk science.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,380
704
45
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
If you want to preach, take it to the right sub forum. If you want to talk science, then talk science.

Creation is no less science, than Evolution.

The character of your observations are what are in question, here.

Pretending that moral observations have no moral dimension, borders on the deranged.
 
Upvote 0