The Evils of Cessationalism

Alithis

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But he never knew them. And this does not describe the mainline churches. It describes much of what we see today.
It totaly describes mainline churches..the ones always saying " oh well your just a sinner saved... If ya still just a sinner living in sin ..thats not yet saved. That is decieved.
 
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rockytopva

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Well... There is a division there. The old school Pentecostal Holiness did not hold to these ideas. I can remember preachers wifes talking about how their earthly fathers were worried that they were going to starve to death married Pentecostal Holiness.

Our dear Pastor Vaught... Who was North Carolina Pentecostal Holiness from the top of his head to the soles of his feet. Here are a couple videos of him in the North Carolina spirit of Pentecostal Holiness church.... Complete with shouting, joy, and worship! My goodness! How I miss the North Carolinian ways!

I put together a video of youth camp in spirit of Pentecostal Holiness church....

 
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Alithis

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“Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” (1 Corinthians 13:8–10)

When did this happen?

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16–17)
It didnt happen yet ...because each generation is filled with new people and each of them is to be furnished unto good works ..
The gifts have not ceased just as the same holy spirit the holy Spirit has not ceased just as the work of sanctification in each person for each generation has not ceased..
Are YOU furnished perfectly to every good work ...?
Do you go and do the works Jesus did and more...?
If you are so complete and perfect and furnished by just" having the bible"
Then why are you not DOING those good works jesus said to do.. ?
 
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Hammster

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The issues of our day and time...

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. - Revelation 3


Eisegesis? How about discerning the times?
And you are doing it again. Where does this passage discuss cessationism? Or gifts?
 
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Hammster

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You simply do not like me and will find something. I cant help it.
It’s not personal. You just haven’t correctly used scripture to make your point.
 
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Hammster

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You are the one who asked me to clarify my point and now you are setting me up for a fall!
I’m still asking. But not to set you up. If you have clear scriptural evidence, I’d like to see it.
 
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W2L

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Before I get the cessationist mixed up with the non-cessationist

Pentecostal Holiness are non-cessationist who normally do not take to materialism
Assembly of God are non-cessationist who normally do not take to materialism
Church of God are non-cessationist who normally do not take to materialism
Congregational Holiness are non-cessationist who normally do not take to materialism
Charismatic are non-cessationist who sometimes take to materialism
Word of Faith are non-cessationist who sometimes take to materialism

Pentecostal Holiness, Assembly of God, Church of God, Charismatic, Congregational Holiness, Word of Faith are related in that they are all non-cessationist (we believe in the continuation of spiritual gifts), but we are very much different congregations. Very seldom to you find these congregations worshiping together.
Lol, you didnt answer the question again, so your assertion that cessationist are materialistic is still unproven.
 
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Hammster

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I went to my dad's denominational church one Good Friday and made the comment to the preachers wife that nobody there was friendly and no one said a word to me. She said the people were being, "Solemn." I thought to myself... My goodness! They did a good job at Solemn! This is also a product of Cessationalism. Now, if you like that kind of service all is good and well. I like at least a little praise and worship myself. The kind of Pentecostal Holiness worship I am accustomed to is very lively! I think pointing out that there are a variety of Christian congregations with a variety of likes and dislikes, and that such likes and dislikes have changed over the course of Christian history, is a truthful thing.
What does any of that have to do with the OP?
 
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Alithis

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We'll let's be clear we're not talking about modern miracles. All cessationists I know believe miracles still happen today, medical or otherwise. I believe in modern miracles. Prayer works and can result in a miracle Lord willing. This is not to be confused with the gifts individuals are claiming to have, gifts of healing etc.

Do you know anyone with the gift of healing that is laying on hands and doing miracles before people's eyes? Do you know a healer that can make tumors vanished before people's eyes? Looking at an x-ray and then suddenly gone? That would be akin to what happened at Pentecost.

Tumors going away is something we see often, with various treatments various diets. God can also answer prayers of the saints and take a tumor way. That's different. That's not a gift to an individual healer, that's God healing through a miracle or a doctor's wisdom.



We agree. I'm open to modern gifts akin to those at Pentecost, I just don't see anyone claiming to have gifts like these. I don't know any serious charismatics walking around claiming Pentecost tongues or Pentecost healing powers. It's by their testimony worldwide, I'm a cessationist, for they themselves are closet cessationists, admitting the power of Pentecost is not in them.
I Do know of someone doinf this.. JESUS
By his body.. Its not about individuals..
Ya need to stop fighting against belief and faith and go and believe and practice faith..
 
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Calminian

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I Do know of someone doinf this.. JESUS
By his body.. Its not about individuals..
Ya need to stop fighting against belief and faith and go and believe and practice faith..

So you want me to stop believing in modern miracles, as I stated I did in my post? Confused. Are you sure you read my post? What do you believe I'm fighting?

Like I said, cessationists are very misunderstood by charismatics. So many straw men floating around, it's difficult to explain and converse. Generally, they conflate general modern miracles with sign gifts. Two very different issues. But if we can get through that hurdle, a good conversation might follow. At very minimum you'll learn what cessationists believe.
 
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Alithis

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So you want me to stop believing in modern miracles, as I stated I did in my post? Confused. Are you sure you read my post? What do you believe I'm fighting?

Like I said, cessationists are very misunderstood by charismatics. So many straw men floating around, it's difficult to explain and converse. Generally, they conflate general modern miracles with sign gifts. Two very different issues. But if we can get through that hurdle, a good conversation might follow. At very minimum you'll learn what cessationists believe.
Yup cessationism is based upon unbelief and is not speaking or teaching from the Holy Spirit .and its arguments are based upon a coouple of misconstrued misrepresented and manipulated verses and full of inuendo and ambiguity..
Cessationism is a world of mirky dishonesty
And teachings of devils..

The lord warned me that any preacher or teacher , no matter how great some of thier Other matarial may sound,..if they preach or teach in opposition of the attributes of the Holy Spirit of God in any form they Are not preaching or teaching from the Holy Spirit.but from the Carnal mind. And are not to be listened to followed or given the time of day.they judge the things of God based upon the often wrongful actions of men ..an unjust and unrighteous judgment.
 
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Albion

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I went to my dad's denominational church one Good Friday and made the comment to the preachers wife that nobody there was friendly and no one said a word to me. She said the people were being, "Solemn." I thought to myself... My goodness! They did a good job at Solemn! This is also a product of Cessationalism. Now, if you like that kind of service all is good and well. I like at least a little praise and worship myself.
It was Good Friday, wasn't it? The most solemn day of the church year?

And you think that an improvement would be some arm waving, falling out in the aisles, and shouting for joy because, hey, Christ is tortured and then crucified for our sins!?

:yellowcard:
 
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Calminian

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Yup cessationism is based upon unbelief and is not speaking or teaching from the Holy Spirit .and its arguments are based upon a coouple of misconstrued misrepresented and manipulated verses and full of inuendo and ambiguity..
Cessationism is a world of mirky dishonesty
And teachings of devils..

Wow. I guess it's like that. Thought I made some fair points worth of discussion, like miracles vs. gifts. I named no cessation verses, actually, yet you've accused me of doing so. Very strange. I believe God could gift a man with sign gifts at any time, and there's no verse to prevent it. I just have never seen anyone from this era claim a gift worthy of the Pentecost era.

I'm willing to discuss the arguments I made, if you're willing. At this point it appears you're not willing. Let me know if you change your mind.
 
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Alithis

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Wow. I guess it's like that. Thought I made some fair points worth of discussion, like miracles vs. gifts. I named no cessation verses, actually, yet you've accused me of doing so. Very strange. I believe God could gift a man with sign gifts at any time, and there's no verse to prevent it. I just have never seen anyone from this era claim a gift worthy of the Pentecost era.

I'm willing to discuss the arguments I made, if you're willing. At this point it appears you're not willing. Let me know if you change your mind.
What your willing to do is set up a text that says..if You havnt seen it..it isnt so.
Thats not faith its sight.
And if it helps ,i dont adhere to the modern charasmatic movement around what they call the gifts and seeking the presence etc .
And you may have to allow that at times i may be replying to the general cessationist mindset and not you specifically.
 
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Calminian

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...And you may have to allow that at times i may be replying to the general cessationist mindset and not you specifically.

That makes sense. You were quoting me. Just not reading the actual quotes and making coherent responses to the arguments.

But again, I don't think you're responding to cessationists, you're responding to things you've heard about cessationists. None of us will learning anything that way. We have to listen to one another.
 
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Alithis

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That makes sense. You were quoting me. Just not reading the actual quotes and making coherent responses to the arguments.

But again, I don't think you're responding to cessationists, you're responding to things you've heard about cessationists. None of us will learning anything that way. We have to listen to one another.
no, we dont lol.
Scripture warns us not to.
Just Go , heal the sick , preach the gospel, drive out devils ,baptise in JESUS name and make more disciples teaching them to observe all jesus commanded... Which includes Go , heal the sick , preach the gospel.... Etc.
We need the same Holy Spirit today to do the same obedient labour of love today .
We need the same tools ,the same attributes .The first 12 and 70 and 120 and 3000 are not here today in this generation.
But the same will of God to save the lost is here and niether his love nor his power have ceased .
 
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Dave L

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It didnt happen yet ...because each generation is filled with new people and each of them is to be furnished unto good works ..
The gifts have not ceased just as the same holy spirit the holy Spirit has not ceased just as the work of sanctification in each person for each generation has not ceased..
Are YOU furnished perfectly to every good work ...?
Do you go and do the works Jesus did and more...?
If you are so complete and perfect and furnished by just" having the bible"
Then why are you not DOING those good works jesus said to do.. ?
All believers have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. But in the first century only few ever spoke in tongues. Paul said they were incomplete in themselves but when the complete came, they would cease. The complete is Scripture that thoroughly furnishes in ways the gifts never could.

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16–17)
 
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Dave L

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It totaly describes mainline churches..the ones always saying " oh well your just a sinner saved... If ya still just a sinner living in sin ..thats not yet saved. That is decieved.
Mainline churches do not do these things Jesus describes.
 
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Tutorman

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I went to my dad's denominational church one Good Friday and made the comment to the preachers wife that nobody there was friendly and no one said a word to me. She said the people were being, "Solemn." I thought to myself... My goodness! They did a good job at Solemn! This is also a product of Cessationalism. Now, if you like that kind of service all is good and well. I like at least a little praise and worship myself. The kind of Pentecostal Holiness worship I am accustomed to is very lively! I think pointing out that there are a variety of Christian congregations with a variety of likes and dislikes, and that such likes and dislikes have changed over the course of Christian history, is a truthful thing.

It was Good Friday, wasn't it? The most solemn day of the church year?

And you think that an improvement would be some arm waving, falling out in the aisles, and shouting for joy because, hey, Christ is tortured and then crucified for our sins!?

:yellowcard:

Exactly, to have arms waving, falling in the aisles, and shouting for joy would be extremely disrespectful on Good Friday. There is a time and place for everything and Good Friday is not the time for hooping and hollering. It just goes to show that some people who claim Christianity have no respect
 
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no, we dont lol.
Scripture warns us not to.

Scripture wants us, not to listen to one another? This is definitely getting interesting.

You admitted you didn't read my posts (even though you quoted them) and responded to different posts making irrelevant points. Now you say, Scripture is telling you to do this. Wow. You guys really are throwing logic to the wind.

How do you correct someone using Scripture, if you don't listen to them? How do you even find out if they are in error or what their error is?

I guess this is the new modern method of apologetics.
giphy.gif
 
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