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Featured The EU will be the hardest thing to develop

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by DoubleJ23, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Active Member

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    Hi back in the 70's and early 80's there were many Bible prophecy teachers who taught what you are suggesting as the rebuilt Roman empire is seen in Daniel as being the 10 kings and the EU was supposed to ascend while the US would be in decline. This view is not correct and I can demonstrate why.
    The infrastructure for global government is the UN and not the EU. If you study globalization the EU is going to be 1 of 10 heads as the world is to be divided into 10 such regions. The UN is expanding its power with the use of the World Bank and the IMF and when the dollar era is over the IMF will issue global fiat money to the world. The globalist in the US ,Europe Australia, China, the Vatican and all are putting all the goals of the UN plan Agenda 21 and its newer version Millinnium 2 into treaties which become national laws which give the UN an ever rising stake in their governments. In 2000 the UN had Michael Gorbachev write a document called the Earth Charter which was placed in a new ark of the covenant and carried with poles 300 miles and placed in the UN building after 9/11. This is symbolically the new commandments from God for the whole earth. Outside the UN building is the Bible verse they shall beat their swords into plowshares and the spears into pruning hooks and they shall learn war no more. This again is attributing a verse about Jesus mission to the UN. The global central banks and secret societies are all working for this specific end which will be the seat of power the antichrist takes.
    The teaching in the 70's and 80's saw the EU rising as a Super Power and being stronger than the US ever was but his si not true and the EU is in huge financial trouble as are all the nations. If the EU goes down to 10 it will have much less power than it does now and it will not be able to take over control of the whole world.
     
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  2. TerryWoodenpic

    TerryWoodenpic Member

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    Of course it is hard to understand...it is rubbish
     
  3. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Active Member

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    I read those books and think that many could see the prophetic events on the horizon back then and really had no idea how much further things could decline morally and spiritually. Think about Jeremiah who was a young man when told to go prophecy about the doom that was coming to Judah. He spoke of captivity and starvation and the word coming from his youth and it was when he was an old man when it occurred. The grace of God raised up a voice that was largely not heard. Chuck Smith whoo wrote those books was not a date setter but believed that Israel was the center of prophecy and he was one that thought the EU would rise and all. To his credit he believed the scriptures were coming to pass and he warned many that they need repent and taught the gospel clearly. He died recently and was looking up at the nearness of the LORD's return all the way to the end.
     
  4. parousia70

    parousia70 Goin' where the Wind don't blow so strange Supporter

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    That didn't answer my question.

    Again, I am asking you, in Matthew 24:33 Jesus said:
    33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!

    Which Calendar is Jesus using here? His or Ours?

    Is Jesus saying "when you see all these things, know that it is NEAR and AT THE DOORS in God's time but is STILL Far off, even Millennia away in Human time"?

    Or Is He LITERALLY saying "when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!"

    Which do you say it is for Matthew 24:33?
     
  5. parousia70

    parousia70 Goin' where the Wind don't blow so strange Supporter

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    Kinda like what you do with Soon, Shortly, Near, At Hand, About to take place, At the doors, Will not delay, etc, etc....?

    You desire those scritprues not to be literally true so you call it Allegory & Spiritual ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  6. parousia70

    parousia70 Goin' where the Wind don't blow so strange Supporter

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    Sorry Friend.
    When you Write a Book called "88 reasons the rapture will be in 1988", it unequivocally cements you as a Date Setter.

    And scripture calls Him a False prophet not to be believed or trusted on ANYTHING, and is worthy of a Death sentence. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22)
     
  7. Dawnhammer

    Dawnhammer Well-Known Member

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    Really? Source link ?
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture non-dispensationalist futurist

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    I hear what you are saying about the 1980's and Jack Van Impe for example saying Juan Carlos as the Antichrist based upon Spain becoming the 11th EU nation.

    However, Brian, not ten world regions because near the end of the 7 years, the world powers from the four directions of the compass converge in the middle east in Daniel 11:40-45.

    The fourth kingdom that the ten kings come out from is the end time Roman Empire - or else it would have given as a fifth kingdom.

    It is not until the last 42 months of the 7 years that the fourth empire becomes dominant over the other nations of the earth, exerting its will and influence over the other nations. To be challenged right near the end of the seven years.

    Not that all nations will be members of the fourth empire. Can't be, otherwise we cannot have in Daniel 11:40-45, the kings of north, south, west (implied), and news from the east - the kings of the east marching in Revelation 16:12.

    Before the 7 years begin, and the next thing of the prophecy timeline, regarding the establishment of the ten kings, out of which, the little horn will become leader of the EU before Gog/Magog attacks and will head toward Israel with a strong army from a location north and west of Israel (Daniel 8:9) - from one of the four Alexander break up kingdoms - specifically Greece in our times. Greece will be just the staging and massing of his EU forces location.

    The end times are a fluid progression of events. The little horn person for example does not immediately equate to being the Antichrist. He does not become the Antichrist until after he becomes the King of Israel, anointed so by the Jews who will believe that he is the messiah following Gog/Magog.

    And he will only be the Antichrist for about 3 years 3 months, before becoming the beast of Revelation, who the whole world - except for the saints - will worship.

    The ten kings and seven kings of Revelation 17 are of the fourth kingdom. Six of the seven kings are historic being - Julius Caesar, Augustus Caesar, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero. King seven will be the end times little horn person, descended from that family line, the Julio-Claudians.

    The ten kings are end times leaders of the EU, the end times version of the Roman Empire.

    After the little horn, at first the leader of the EU, goes through the stages of becoming the Antichrist King of Israel, then as the revealed man of sin (ending his time as the Antichrist), and ultimately becoming the beast who the world will worship as God (except for the saints) - will be the eighth king of the Roman Empire (after being killed and brought back to life).

    As the EU will become the dominant world power over the rest of the world with him having all of their military power at his disposal. The United States and Canada will most likely be aligned with his power base with him being the King of the West for the final convergence into the middle east right before the sixth seal takes place.

    Then the focus will change to all of the kings of the earth uniting their armies in Revelation 16:16 to fight Jesus in hope of avoiding the wrath of his judgment on them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  9. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    @keras in reply No38 has replied with clarity, and @Brian Mcnamee in reply No41 has added some other interesting facts.
    Other than that, the rest seem to have missed the most important point which is that the Ten Nations is about world domination, not Europe.

    Lets look at Daniel's interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's dream.

    Daniel2v31Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. 32This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, 33His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. 34Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. 35Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

    As we read on, we will see that this prophetic image is not merely about the city state of Babylon, which although it had defeated all the nations around, was still quite parochial when it comes to world domination.

    36This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king. 37Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

    There we have it, according to the Lord, all the world's men, animals and birds are in Nebuchadnezzar's hands, he effectively rules the whole world!
    This seems an absurd statement, given that there would obviously be people groups all around the planet who had never ever heard of Nebuchadnezzar. But these other people groups didn't count as far as God was concerned.
    The issue at stake for the world, revolved around Babylon and Jerusalem. Satan's kingdom and God's Kingdom.

    Satan's kingdom, at that time based in Babylon, was ruled by Nebuchadnezzar, the head of gold. That kingdom would be defeated by another kingdom, the silver arms of the Medes and the Persians.-
    39And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

    There it is again, the third kingdom ruling over the whole earth, not just the middle east! The brass/bronze belly and thighs of Greece under the command of Alexander the Great defeated the Medes and Persians.

    That Greeks would in turn also be defeated by an altogether more destructive fourth kingdom of Iron, which history shows us is the Roman Empire, which at its height was the nearest to world dominion.
    40And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and subdues all things: and as iron that breaks all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. 41And whereas thou saw the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou saw the iron mixed with miry clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43And whereas thou saw iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

    Despite the passing of thousands of years, this final world dominating iron and clay alliance of ten kingdoms is actually a continuation of Babylon. ie. Despite the changing names and regimes, the ruling antichrist spirit behind Babylon still reigns supreme in the final world kingdom of Rome. Despite popular church and world history, Rome has never disappeared, but in one form or another has continued through the ages.

    As can be seen, all the way down to the toes, there is no break in the long legs of the final world empire, which incorporates the demonic entities and gods of all the previous empires.

    44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45Forasmuch as thou saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

    The Rock cut out without hands, is Christ himself.

    It is imperative we note that Christ the rock doesn't just smash the final ten toes iron and clay kingdom, but he smashes the bronze, the silver, the gold kingdom in one single go.

    The Lord treats Satan's kingdom as a single entity manifesting itself through countless different manifestations over a period of 2500 years or so.

    So what's my point?

    As Keras and Brian have pointed out, even though people have been bashing on and on about the EU being the final world kingdom, that kingdom has to be a world dominating kingdom because it is the kingdom of the antichrist who will eventually rule the whole world, not just Europe. Repeatedly, the Lord addresses the various stages as world kingdoms, because the rest of the world populations counted for nothing.
    That is no longer the case, whoever rules the final kingdom has to overrule all other powerful kingdoms, either by political alliance or by military power.
     
  10. parousia70

    parousia70 Goin' where the Wind don't blow so strange Supporter

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    No Doubt.
    The same way Jesus, the Rock, the chief cornerstone, the Lord of the Vineyard, Came and Crushed the Chief Priests and Scribes back in the 1st century? (Matthew 21:33-45)
     
  11. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Absurdity and nonsense is your forte.
    You did not to properly understand what I said , which shows why you have a complete failure at understanding prophecy , amils-preterists and anyone who thinks all bible prophecy is complete has no understanding of prophecy.

    Firstly had you properly understood my post ; it simply was saying that Jesus said he was coming soon , well that was 2000 years ago , so that indicates that the His calendar is different than ours - are you able to grasp that ? Obviously not ; as it was a rhetorical pun that went way over your head

    My question of you was both a rhetorical pun combined with asking you to prove that Jesus has already fulfilled the prophecy of His 2nd advent

    Context determines how the words are to be determined in their application

    In short there are quite a few bible prophecies that have not yet been fulfilled , so when someone has said they are fulfilled it is easy to point out how severely wrong they are by simply asking a question about a prophecy that has not come true just as I did you ,

    Instead of answering what I asked of you , you show diversion by asking me question

    I simply say YOU FIRST answer what was asked of you!
    I do not allegorical any scripture , I do not spiritualize any scripture

    satan is the father of lies , and of the lies he tells is that bible prophecy for the future has already been fulfilled ,

    preterism is a lie , a deception that comes from satan and is not allowed in the forum according to the rules which lets you know how those who established the rules feel about
    the deceptive lies of preterist

    preterism- it is false deception and the sooner you abandon that nonsense the sooner you will see real truth about scripture
     
  12. Monk Brendan

    Monk Brendan Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Then I had better throw some water on you. Sssshhh! :droplet: :frozen2:

    NOW you are put out! :oldthumbsup:
     
  13. Tom Farebrother

    Tom Farebrother Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It’s not so straightforward as that, what seems that be the case is that some of revelations is about what was happening at the time, and in the near future, and some is about the ‘end times’. It’s worth bearing in mind that every generation, and pretty much every decade in the last century at least, has linked world events to the same passages being used today, and, to date, they’ve all been wrong. I think today’s theologians and other careful scholars get thrown into the same basket as the ‘teachers of the law’ etc who opposed Jesus in favour of the latest ‘exiting’ theories, which is both unfair and inaccurate.
     
  14. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't see any reason to assume the anti-Christ will come from the EU or that the EU has to have 10 kings. Israel will not accept a Messiah that is not Jewish, and the kings could be from any number of countries. If it is a global government one would expect those kings to be from all over the world.
     
  15. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Actually it is as straightforward as that, If you refer to what Jesus said to the 7 churches, Jesus pointed out things that he was pleased with and displeased with each of the churches and those things stand for the entirety of human generations .
    Not limited to just those people in that time.

    Nowhere in scripture is stated that after a given generation or year Gods rules stop being implemented .

    No different than if a company starts up 2000 years ago and policy states you will be terminated if you are found intoxicated on the job- that rule stands for the entire duration of time the company exists unless a new policy book states that from a specific date the rule pertaining to being intoxicated on the job no longer applies.

    Jesus is reminding that church generation and all generations to come after them that HIS rules stand forever ,
    So he tells us that to be mindful of what His standard is .

    Jesus tells those churches and churches even unto This Present day that if you have fallen into sins of which He has mentioned to those 7 churches you need to repent and come back to HIM and His ways and if you do He will forgive , if you do not you will not be happy about His decision

    It is written to those who proclaim they belong to Christ and not those who belong to the world, as those who belong to Christ are to live up to Christ's rules.

    There will always be people who take good information and apply it in a manner that misrepresents that information ; such as people continually trying to predict the date of the rapture or Jesus return and make themselves look foolish when it doesn't happen on the date they say it will happen - but that does not mean that it won't happen -
    Jesus will return according to His own determined time - not by when some human says it will happen
     
  16. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Active Member

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    Hi I respect your opinion and certainly agree on what happens as the midpoint. The Ezekiel 38 war is difficult to place as I have seen many good teachers have varying opinions over what will happen. The 4 ordinal directions in Daniel may not be as you have stated and it could be too.
    Going back to what many taught in the 70's and 80's that is still taught that could be wrong is the idea that the 1st half of the tribulation is a time of peace and safety I think it is far from it and that the seals are opened quickly which would mean when the rider on the white horse shows up very quickly it is a denarius for a quart of wheat and peace is taken from the earth that men should kill one another. The Greek implies ethnos vs ethnos and this lines up with the Masonic Illuminati plot of order out of chaos. If it is anarchy men would welcome totalitarianism over that. Over 1/4 the earth is killed of in this early phase. If you look at the world and the fiat money system the collapse of the dollar would trigger just such a global scenario. The UN and not the EU is poised with the infrastructure to become the global authority and progressives in all the universities and national governments are working towards this specific agenda. I see the U. S. dot actually as Babylon destroyed in a single day. If you go line by line and examine all the distinctives of that entity if the trib started today only one nation is that which all the merchants of the world would weep as no one would be buying the luxury goods. Look at the entire list and it fits. Anyways you might be right I am not dogmatic about this but having studied how the ship was steered to where we are now you can see documented strategies decades old that state goals, strategies and objectives and over time these goals have become realities. My research shows that it is the goal to give the authority to the UN and eliminate nation states completely. Anyways I am sure it will be 20/20 in hindsight.
    The key for us is to be in love with Jesus and be not deceived in the days leading up to this eventuality.
     
  17. parousia70

    parousia70 Goin' where the Wind don't blow so strange Supporter

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    Thats because the answer to the question I asked wholly debunks your theory of God haveing a "different timeclock" than Humans.

    Matthew 24:33 FULLY debunks your claim. FULLY.
    Yes, Right from Jesus own mouth, your claim is refuted.

    And THAT is why I suspect you refuse to answer, because you KNOW it.

    Of course you do.
    Near means far, shortly means a long time, at hand means distant future....
    There is absolutely ZERO literalism applied by you in interpreting passages that contain those words. ZERO.
    You position will not allow literalism here...
    You need to change the scripture to fit your view, when you should be changing your view to fit the scripture.

    The Bible, and therefore preterism, is ture and correct.
    FULL preterism is not allowed, Partial preterism, being the consistent view held throoughout Christendoms history, is allowed in the forum, which ought to give you plenty of information about how those who established the rules feel about it.

    ALL Christians are preterist Seventy, even you.
    We only vary by degree.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  18. parousia70

    parousia70 Goin' where the Wind don't blow so strange Supporter

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    Where does scripture teach you (Sorry, I know... you don't like being asked to show us where scruipture teaches you these things) to REMOVE those people in that time from ANY application of those letters?

    The Letters were directly addressed and first delivered to those LITERAL people at that LITERAL time in those LITERAL churches - Where does scripture teach you to allegorize that, and remove those LITERAL people from having any application or any need to heed the warnings contained in the letters?

    And nowehere in scripture is it stated that the rules dont apply to the original receiving generation either... yet here you are saying just that. That the prophesies in the book were not FOR THEM to heed and obey, but were instead for some other generation of people thousands of years removed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  19. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Active Member

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    Hi your emphasis on Mathew 24 establishing a nearness as you define nearness in in contradiction with Peter speaking by the Holy Spirit about the same events.
    1 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
    8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us,[fn] not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

    We are seeing the mockers now scoff and the stage is set with Israel and jerusalem and the temple mount all becoming the focus of the world at at time when the nations are conspiring to bring in a global government and the world is trying to merge all the religions to unite with a PC global agenda. The 70the week of Daniel has not happened and the stage is prepared for it to unfold.
     
  20. parousia70

    parousia70 Goin' where the Wind don't blow so strange Supporter

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    Ever read the Book Of Jude?
    It contains then contemporary PROOF of the Last Days apostasy unfolding right then and there!

    The scoffers Peter was referring to were contemporary to him in his day, for as the apostles contunially, universally testify throughout the NT, their generation was the Last Days generation that existed as the ends of the ages had come upon them.

    I only scoff at unscriptural gobblygook.

    And North Korea fits in how?

    Which endtime propheises does or will North Korea Fulfill exactly?

    North Korea is far more a trembling cup in this day and age than is the temple mount.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
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