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The Error of Lordship Salvation?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Humble_Disciple, Jun 11, 2021.

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  1. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    All in complete agreement with my post quoted above.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  2. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    You either don't understand, or deliberately misrepresent, Lordship savlation.
     
  3. GraceInChrist

    GraceInChrist Member

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    No, not at all. You are preaching a gospel of law and flesh. Instead of one in which we are saved in baptism, and seal in the Holy Ghost. If you need to work, then it is no longer grace. For some reason you are not getting this.
     
  4. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Please Biblically demonstrate how the Scriptures you presented are in disagreement
    with the Scriptures I presented.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  5. GraceInChrist

    GraceInChrist Member

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    You are just trying to make it sound the same as baptismal regeneration, which are not the same. One is trying to be justified by the flesh and works, the other is a work of the holy ghost in the believer.
     
  6. GraceInChrist

    GraceInChrist Member

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  7. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Non-responsive.
     
  8. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Rather, the Scriptures I presented disagree in the context you are using.
    They are the context I am using.

    That is not a Biblical demonstration.

    Non-reponsive.
     
  9. GraceInChrist

    GraceInChrist Member

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    In the context you are using them it goes against many other scriptures. Either Paul made an oppsie or they dont mean what you force them to mean.
     
  10. GraceInChrist

    GraceInChrist Member

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    How did you get save, by the hearing of gospel that comes from faith. Or by your works through faith.
     
  11. Oompa Loompa

    Oompa Loompa Against both police brutality and cop killing.

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    I presume you come from a faith tradition that regards the physical act of water baptism a sacrament and not an ordinance?
     
  12. GraceInChrist

    GraceInChrist Member

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    Baptism was always a sacrament. It is a gift of God in which we are save, and participate in his finish work of the cross. It is written multiple times throught the bible.
    Our works do not impute the righteouness of our lord Jesus Christ.
     
  13. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Honestly this controversy has much to do about nothing. Just another modern age stumbling block in which to avoid. If one can not define who Jesus Christ of Nazareth is, Lord and Savior, then so be it. Blessings.
     
  14. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    If you deny the plain meaning of those 12 Scriptures, then it falls to you to demonstrate they "go against many other Scriptures" in the light of all Scripture. . .one good way to do this would be to demonstrate what you say they actually mean rather than what I am "forcing" them to mean, when all I did was present them as they are written--no commentary involved.

    What you are actually demonstrating here is that their own plain wording is so evidently contradictory to your theology that it must be becasue I am "forcing" them to mean what they plainly state.

    That's just goofy. . .
     
  15. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Non-responsive to the texts I presented.
     
  16. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Maybe not. . .is holiness nothing?
     
  17. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    No fruit no salvation is untrue.

    You have three examples in The Bible, in the parable of the soils ( i place in bold) in Luke, Matthew and Mark.

    All three of the soils in bold sprang up in contrast to the first soil which was trampled down and birds of the air devoured it (the only unbelieving soil in the parable) .

    2nd soil Some fell on rock; and as soon as it sprang up, it withered away because it lacked moisture.

    3rd soil And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up with it and choked it.

    4th soil But others fell on good ground, sprang up, and yielded a crop a hundredfold.” When He had said these things He cried, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

    All of the three soils that sprang up believed and received God's free gift of Eternal Life. But only one of these three soils produced fruit.


    “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience

    When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it,then the wicked one
    comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

    The sower sows the word. And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble. Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirty fold, some sixty, and some a hundred.”
     
  18. Oompa Loompa

    Oompa Loompa Against both police brutality and cop killing.

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    Is the physical act of water baptism required for salvation? What if someone says they are saved but deliberately choose not to be baptized?

    Edit: I will just cut to the chase. You mentioned that baptism is not a work but a "gift". Regardless, if water baptism is a sacrament necessary for salvation, the act of receiving the gift by being water baptized is in itself a "work". Therefore, you believe if works based salvation if you presume accepting the gift of baptism through immersion is a requirement for salvation. I do not now, or have ever, suggested that our works are necessary for salvation. But it isn't true that we are not saved by works. We are! But the work is done entirely by that of the Holy Spirit and they physical act of water baptism is merely an ordinance that is symbolic of the spiritual "fire baptism" after one is justified.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  19. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

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    The only reason why I am saying anything about it is because I want as many people as possible to be saved, and I want those who are already Christian to know they are saved.
     
  20. Oompa Loompa

    Oompa Loompa Against both police brutality and cop killing.

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    What exactly is my "notion" that you are suggesting?
     
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