The Error of Dual Covenant Theology

[BABerean2]

A man stands up and says he does not need Christ as his Messiah because of who his parents are.
He says his family is under a different covenant with God.

Pastor John Hagee would agree with the man.

Others say the day is coming when God will remove the Church from the planet, and then God will go back and bring modern Jews to salvation during the seven year period before the Second Coming of Christ.
The claim is made that these people are saved through faith in Christ, but are not a part of the Church.

Many claim the Church and Israel are totally separate entities, despite the fact that Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" on the Day of Pentecost.

Many claim the New Covenant is not yet in effect, despite Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24.

One of the most difficult things for a Christian to do is to tell a man he is lost without Christ.
If we truly love people we must tell them the truth.

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

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[Rubiks]

The Old Testament repeats like a beating drum that its covenants are eternal and cannot be repealed.

Jesus even says in Matthew 5 (NRSV) “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter,not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Its important to note here that the law of Moses was given to the Jews only.

"Fulfill" is not a synonym for "abolish." When Jesus says he came to fulfill the law and prophets he meant he came to obey it in its entirely.

 

[BABerean2]

The Old Testament repeats like a beating drum that its covenants are eternal and cannot be repealed.

Jesus even says in Matthew 5 (NRSV) “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter,not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Its important to note here that the law of Moses was given to the Jews only.

"Fulfill" is not a synonym for "abolish." When Jesus says he came to fulfill the law and prophets he meant he came to obey it in its entirely.

Do you think Paul was confused in Galatians 3:16-29 when he said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" (the same word found in Matthew 5:18) the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made?

Why did Paul compel the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" in Galatians 4:24-31?

Was Paul confused in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8 when he contrasted the "ministry of death engraved on stones", to the ministry of the Spirit?

We are told in Hebrews 12:18-24 that we are not come to the mountain that burns with fire (Sinai).
Instead, we are come to the New Covenant of Mount Sion.

In Hebrews 8:13 we are told the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".

Based on the verse below the New Covenant is a higher standard than the Old Covenant, not for our salvation, but for our conduct.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat_5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

The battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant began in Acts chapter 15, and continues to this day...

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[jgr]

The Old Testament repeats like a beating drum that its covenants are eternal and cannot be repealed.

There's this New Testament that marches to a new drumbeat.

In God's New Will and Testament, all covenants and promises are fulfilled in Christ and those who are in Christ.

The OT covenants and promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.

If you have made your own Will and Testament, you will see that the very first clause states the following or its equivalent:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."

This means that all former wills and testaments, and all of their promissory clauses in their entirety, are completely null and void. In their place, the promissory clauses of the current last new will and testament are the only ones in force and effect. Any promissory clause which appeared in the old will and testament, but does not appear in the new will and testament, is irrevocably null and void unless yet another new will and testament is made which re-includes it.

Thus we see:

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

God`s New Will and Testament is everlasting:

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.

There is none greater.

We see other new promissory clauses of the New Will and Testament in:

Matthew 21:33-45
In this parable, the son, who is identified as the heir, typifies Christ.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In them, we see that the Heir and Beneficiary is Christ alone, that all of the promises are affirmed and confirmed in Him, and that He is Heir of all things. All includes the OT land promises, the restoration promises, the blessings promises, and all else. There are no exceptions.

And His New Will and Testament contains even better promises:

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Such as:

Hebrews 11
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Additional promissory clauses in...:

Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

...make us who are in Christ joint heirs with Him.

But notice:
There are no promissory clauses for anyone, Jew or Gentile, who is not in Christ.

 

[BABerean2]

Dual Covenant: Back Door for the Jews...

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

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[Billy Evmur]

The Old Testament repeats like a beating drum that its covenants are eternal and cannot be repealed.

Jesus even says in Matthew 5 (NRSV) “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter,not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Its important to note here that the law of Moses was given to the Jews only.

"Fulfill" is not a synonym for "abolish." When Jesus says he came to fulfill the law and prophets he meant he came to obey it in its entirely.

This is so, "shall be called least in the kingdom...." not "they will be chucked the heck out of the kingdom."

For US He has abolished the law and the prophets by fulfilling them. He fulfilled them for us on our behalf. The law and the prophets is "the soul that sinneth it shall die" He fulfilled that by dying on our behalf.

The promises made to Abe's seed are simply not the same as the promises made to us. They are promised the land, they are promised the ends of the earth as their heritage, has not happened must yet be future for they are eternal promises.

If God reneges on His promise to the Jews, whyever would we have confidence to believe He will not renege on us...God forbid, God will not renege.

"They our enemies of the gospel FOR YOUR SAKES but as touching ELECTION they are BELOVED for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

We are promised heaven, they are promised earth, there will be a new heavens and a new earth.

 

[Billy Evmur]

These are the seed from Abe's loins, but Abe, Ike and Jake and obedient Israel along with the NT Jewish saints are church.

 

[BABerean2]

We are promised heaven, they are promised earth, there will be a new heavens and a new earth.

You claim not to hold to John Nelson Darby's doctrine and then you turn around and claim the same thing as its leading proponents, which are found below.

Classic Dispensationalists believe God will again go back to dealing with the modern nation of Israel after the end of the “Church Age”. They claim the Church is a “parenthesis” in God’s dealings with the nation of Israel.



Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church.


“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”

Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.


Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”

Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.


John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…


"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”

John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25

.............................................................................

Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, this rotten, sin-cursed world is going to burn up.
Therefore, there is no "eternal" land promise on this world.
The eternal land promise is in the New Heavens and the New Earth, that Peter was looking for.
This fact is confirmed by Hebrews 11:15-16, where we find the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints is the same as ours.

Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.


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[Douggg]

Classic Dispensationalists believe God will again go back to dealing with the modern nation of Israel after the end of the “Church Age”. They claim the Church is a “parenthesis” in God’s dealings with the nation of Israel.

Futurism does not equal dispensationalism - no more than car does not equal Ford.

A Ford is a car - but not all cars are Fords.

A person can be a futurist - and not be a dispensationalist.

 

[claninja]

A man stands up and says he does not need Christ as his Messiah because of who his parents are.
He says his family is under a different covenant with God.

Pastor John Hagee would agree with the man.

Others say the day is coming when God will remove the Church from the planet, and then God will go back and bring modern Jews to salvation during the seven year period before the Second Coming of Christ.
The claim is made that these people are saved through faith in Christ, but are not a part of the Church.

Many claim the Church and Israel are totally separate entities, despite the fact that Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" on the Day of Pentecost.

Many claim the New Covenant is not yet in effect, despite Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24.

One of the most difficult things for a Christian to do is to tell a man he is lost without Christ.
If we truly love people we must tell them the truth.

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

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Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is growing old and aging will soon disappear.

The Greek word for "he has made obsolete" is perfect indicative active. Thus it is a completed action. The old covenant was made completely obsolete at the cross.

However, there were still Jews worshiping according to that old obsolete covenant after the cross. The Greek words for "growing old" and "aging" are present tense. Thus the old obsolete covenant that was made obsolete at the cross was present growing old/aging and ready to be removed completely.

We can see that those who remained under the old obsolete covenant of slavery were persecuting those under the New covenant of freedom.
Galatians 4:24-26,28-29 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. IT IS THE SAME NOW

Ironically, those who held to relying on the works of the Law to the tee for righteousness , and rejected Jesus, failed a major part of the Law: Deuteronomy 18, which was the commandment for Israel to listen to Jesus.
Deuteronomy 18:15 The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him.

God himself would judge those that would not listen to Jesus
Deuteronomy 18:19 I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name

And the punishment for not obeying the commands of God would be destruction by outsiders
Deuteronomy 28:45 these curses will come on you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the Lord your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you.

Jesus predicted this destruction, because Jerusalem did not recognize him, the prophet like Moses that spoke the words of God
Luke 19:43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

John 7:16-20 Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. 18Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him. 19Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law. Why are you trying to kill me?”

“You are demon-possessed,” the crowd answered. “Who is trying to kill you?”

God did not destroy Judah with Babylon right away for disobeying the Law, but instead allowed them to disobey the Law for 40 years. So to, God did not destroy Jerusalem right away for disobeying the Law by rejecting Christ instead, He gave Jerusalem 40 years and then destroyed them inside (zealot civil wars) and outside (Roman siege)
Ezekiel 4:6-8 After you have finished this, lie down again, this time on your right side, and bear the sin of the people of Judah. I have assigned you 40 days, a day for each year. 7Turn your face toward the siege of Jerusalem and with bared arm prophesy against her. 8I will tie you up with ropes so that you cannot turn from one side to the other until you have finished the days of your siege.
Praise God for grace and mercy for not destroying national Israel right away for crucifying his son. For many Jews died to the Law and were freed to belong to Christ between 30AD and 70AD. And those that remained under the old obsolete covenant went up to Jerusalem for Passover between 66AD and 70AD for the required feasts. There they were locked in and either killed by the zealots or forced to join their army, which ultimately lead to millions of deaths and almost a hundred thousand plus being sold into slavery/take prisoner by Rome.

After 70 AD (40 years from Christ's death) it became impossible to follow the old obsolete covenant, thus it vanished away, and has been gone for the last ~2000 years. Every attempt, from 70 ad until today, to rebuild the earthly physical temple, has been thwarted by God himself.

Praise be to God, who through Christ made the old covenant obsolete at the cross and fulfilled the righteous requirements of said Law in all who believe. Now we are free to belong to Christ.

 

[BABerean2]

A person can be a futurist - and not be a dispensationalist.

What do we call someone who claims modern Jews will one day come to salvation outside of the Church?

What do we call someone who denies the New Covenant is now in effect?

What do we call someone who claims the Church and Israel are in no way related?

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[Douggg]

What do we call someone who claims modern Jews will one day come to salvation outside of the Church?

Christians. But what you are driving at - futurists.

What do we call someone who denies the New Covenant is now in effect?

Everyone on this forum believe in the New Covenant. Bab2, what your group is doing is the same a political parties do... you are using a legitimate term as a label as a cover for your beliefs... namely replacement theology....which has negativity associated with it.

In similitude, Political parties label themselves as Democrats, for example, but they are certainly not the only ones who believe in democracy. Same for Republicans. They are certainly not the only one who believe of a republic.

What do we call someone who claims the Church and Israel are in no way related?

Depends on who you talk to. Could be Jews , could be Christians, could be neither.

 

[BABerean2]

Christians. But what you are driving at - futurists.


Everyone on this forum believe in the New Covenant. Bab2, what your group is doing is the same a political parties do... you are using a legitimate term as a label as a cover for your beliefs... namely replacement theology....which has negativity associated with it.

In similitude, Political parties label themselves as Democrats, for example, but they are certainly not the only ones who believe in democracy. Same for Republicans. They are certainly not the only one who believe of a republic.

Depends on who you talk to. Could be Jews , could be Christians, could be neither.

Below you will find the source of the modern Two Peoples of God doctrine, which is a form of Dual Covenant Theology.
It has replaced the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16.
It has replaced the children of the promise, with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8.
It has replaced the "son" as the "heir" to the land in Matthew chapter 21, with those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone".


Genesis of Dispensational Theology

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418


Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files


Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf

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[Douggg]

Below you will find the source of the modern Two Peoples of God doctrine, which is a form of Dual Covenant Theology.

You are muddying the waters to justify replacement theology, that the church has become Israel.

 

[jgr]

You are muddying the waters to justify replacement theology, that the church has become Israel.

You've never yet been able to precisely define and identify who Israel is. So how would you know how to distinguish between it and the Church?

 

[usexpat97]

Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Here we have a case of man's philosophizing and reasoning vs. the Bible flat out telling you something. Sorry, but if the Bible has any authority over your life, you have to go with the Bible.

 

[BABerean2]

You are muddying the waters to justify replacement theology, that the church has become Israel.

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in the passage below.
On that day about 3,000 Israelites became a part of the Church.

Either Peter was wrong, or you are wrong.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


Nobody can honestly deny that when the Church began almost all of its members were Israelites.
The Gentiles were grafted in several years later.

The Church has not become Israel.

Instead, part of Israel became the Church, as found in Romans 9:6, and Romans 9:8, and Romans 9:27, and Romans 11:1-5.

This is what is plainly written in God's Word.

God's Word is like a two edged sword which cuts to pieces man-made doctrines, and stands as a witness to all who truly seek the truth.
Dual Covenant Theology is one of those man-made doctrines.

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[Douggg]

You've never yet been able to precisely define and identify who Israel is. So how would you know how to distinguish between it and the Church?

Israel is the nation which was born in a single day in May 14, 1948, fulfilling Isaiah 66:8.

7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children

 

[Douggg]

he Church has not become Israel.

Instead, part of Israel became the Church, as found in Romans 9:6, and Romans 9:8, and Romans 9:27, and Romans 11:1-5.

spin city.

 

[usexpat97]

Israel is the nation which was born in a single day in May 14, 1948, fulfilling Isaiah 66:8.

Again, I will just let the Bible do the debating. Is 1948 a fulfillment of Scripture? Maybe so. But you've got the wrong Scripture:


Revelation 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.