The End Times and the Law

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reddogs

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The Bible in Revelation describes the last great conflict between Christ and Satan and this conflict is a conflict of authority. In Revelation 12 it tells us that the dragon would make war on those that keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ (Revelation 12:17). These are two issues that the Evil one will target in particular in the End Times, namely: “The commandments of God” and “The testimony of Jesus Christ.”

In Revelation 11:19 we read:
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament. And there were lightnings, and voices and thunderings and an earthquake and great hail. Revelation 11:19

The prophet John is alerting us to the fact that the issues in the last days will canter around the law of God. The Evil one is going to challenge the authority of the Creator and try and establish his own sign of authority. Revelation 13 identifies who the powers will be that would be involved in the final challenge to God’s authority as embodied in His Law. The commandments of God, and thus the government of God, are targets of the ire of Satan, and the Evil on will do everything in his power to destroy the Commandments of God in the final conflict between good and evil.

...If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation: and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb; and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever; and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Revelation 14:9-11

So we see that the Evil one will strive to make everyone worship him instead of God and he will do this by attacking the basis of Gods authority, His Law and those who remain faithful to Jesus Christ and the testimonies which point back to God and the Commandments.

This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus. Revelation 14:12

Many people have been deceived into thinking that Saturday was only the Jewish Sabbath, but that the Christian Sabbath has been changed to Sunday. Changed, but by whom? Who has authority to change an express commandment of Almighty God? When God has spoken and said, 'Thou shalt keep holy the seventh day', who will dare to say, lets change it, and you may go ahead and work and do all manner of worldly business on the seventh day, but thou shalt keep holy the first day in its stead? This is a most important question which I know not how you can answer. If you are a Protestant, and you profess to go by the Bible and the Bible only; and yet, in so important a matter as the observance of one day in seven as a holy day, you go against the plain letter of the Bible, and put another day in the place of that which He has commanded. The command to keep holy the seventh day is one of the ten commandments; you believe the other nine are still binding; who gave you authority to tamper with the fourth? If you are consistent with your own principle, if you really follow the Bible and the Bible only, you ought to be able to produce some portion of the New Testament in which this fourth commandment is expressly altered.

Why is the Sabbath commandment so relevant to God’s law, and why is there such importance attached to the keeping of the particular day? The answer lies in the wording of the commandment which contains the seal of God.
The Sabbath commandment is not only the heart of the ten command­ments, but it is the seal of the commandments. Remove it and the commandments have no authority or official seal.

A seal contains three specifications:
- the name of the writer of the law,
- his office, and
- the name of the territory over which he rules.
Only the fourth commandment has these three items:
- Yhwh God (God’s Name)
- Creator (His office, position)
- Heaven and Earth (His territory)

Remove this commandment and any adherent of any religion could subscribe to the other nine. A change in the seal means a change of rulership, it implies a new authority with power to implement laws. Obedience to new laws ratified by the seal of authority entails submission to that authority. This was ever Satan’s aim - to place his authority above that of the throne of God. By claiming authority as lawgiver, and enforcing his seal, in opposition to the seal of God, Satan shifts the position of authority from God to himself. Obedience to his seal (or mark) of authority means subjection to his government in direct opposition to that of God. This is the ultimate apostasy. When mankind submits to this spurious seal and openly confesses it by the proclamation of laws for the maintenance of Sunday, then man would have fully subjected himself to Satan’s reign. Until such laws are enacted, freedom of choice is still possible. The mark of the beast only leads to ultimate separation from God once individuals are forced to choose whom they wish to obey. If they choose to obey God in this issue, then the penalty is persecution. If they choose to obey the earthly authorities, then the penalty is separation from God. All will have to make this choice.

Throughout the Scriptures, the Sabbath of God is treated with the utmost solemnity. And hallow My Sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that ye may know that I am the Lord your God. Ezekiel 20: 20

For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18

Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? Matthew 15:3.

But in vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Matthew 15:9.

Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted shall be rooted up. Matthew 15:13

Choose you this day whom ye will serve. If the Lord be God, follow Him. Joshua 24:15

Sunday worship has no Scriptural authority, and rests solely upon tradition. Protestants have always claimed that the Bible and the Bible alone should be the standard for our religious beliefs. To meet this challenge, the Roman Catholic Church called the Council of Trent in 1545, and proclaimed that tradition stood above Scripture. The archbishop of Reggio, in a speech concerning this issue, maintained that proof for tradition superceding Scriptural authority could be found in the changeover from Sabbath to Sunday.

The Church has changed Sabbath into Sunday, not by the command of Christ but by its own authority. Canon and Tradition, by Holtzman.

Protestants who observe Sunday as the day of worship are honoring the mark of Roman Catholicism. Roman Catholics claim:

Sunday is our mark of authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.The Catholic Record

The Church of Rome claims that Sunday is her mark of authority. Moreover, she claims that it is her right to legislate moral issues and that governments should subscribe to her directives. This is not only a right which she claimed for herself during the middle ages, but is a right which she claims for herself today. The official Catechism of the Catholic Church, has this to say on the issue:

The Church, the pillar and bulwark of the truth, has received this solemn command of Christ from the apostles to announce the saving truth. To the Church belongs the right always and everywhere to announce moral principles, including those pertaining to the social order, and to make judgments on any human affairs to the extent that they are required by the fundamental rights of the human person or the salvation of souls.Moral Life and Magisterium of the Church, 2032, The Catechism of the Catholic Church.

According to this Catechism, moral issues are dictated by the Ten Commandments, but not the Ten Commandments as found in the Bible, but the Ten Commandments as defined by Augustine, the Catholic Church father.

Ever since St. Augustine, the Ten Commandments have occupied a predominant place in the catechesis of baptismal candidates and the faithful. The catechisms of the Church have often expounded Christian morality by following the order of the Ten Commandments. The division and numbering of the Commandments have varied in the course of history. The present catechism follows the division of the Commandments established by St. Augustine, which has become traditional in the Catholic Church. 2065-2066, The Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Not the ten commandments as they occur in the Bible, but as defined by Augustine form the basis for Catholic morality. Since Sunday is also the mark of the Catholic Church’s authority, it follows that this mark is in direct opposition to the declared will of God and that compromise on this issue is thus not possible.

God told His people exactly what blessings they would enjoy should they obey and what curses they would experience if they should disobey. The choice was theirs. God’s law is not designed as a means of punishing the disobedient, but the consequences of disobedience are self-inflicted. God does not ask us to keep His law in order to be saved, but rather the law is given to those who are redeemed to protect them from harm. Obedience to God’s law which Christ points to is an expression of love; it is the means whereby we develop a intimate relationship with Him.

If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15

What Jesus told those early disciples, He is also telling us. We should read the signs of the times which tell us that the second coming of Jesus is nearer than ever before. When we study the prophetic word, we discover where we are in the stream of time. It is later than we think. It is time for us to wake up from our slumber and get ready for the second coming of Jesus.

Those who follow Jesus Christ will obey the Commandments and in the End Times this will be the ultimate test of obedience. It will determine who will remain faithful to the precepts of Christ at all costs and who will fall under the banner of Satan especially in the Last Days as the Evil one will focus on the Law or God's authority. The keeping of the Law and especially the Sabbath of creation is the greatest signal to the world that we believe that God is our Creator and our Redeemer. It is the signal that we acknowledge His authority and His authority alone in our lives, in terms of religious matters.
 

Eila

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So we see that the Evil one will strive to make everyone worship him instead of God and he will do this by attacking the basis of Gods authority, His Law and those who remain faithful to Jesus Christ and the testimonies which point back to God and the Commandments.

This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus. Revelation 14:12

These commandments are not the 10 commandments. The 10 commandments are referred to the ministry of condemnation in 2 Corinthians 3 "7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord."

Also in 1 John the commandments are defined. The man who wrote 1 John also wrote Revelation.

1 John 3 "21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment."

The commandments in Revelation are not the 10 commandments.

Many people have been deceived into thinking that Saturday was only the Jewish Sabbath, but that the Christian Sabbath has been changed to Sunday. Changed, but by whom? Who has authority to change an express commandment of Almighty God? When God has spoken and said, 'Thou shalt keep holy the seventh day', who will dare to say, lets change it, and you may go ahead and work and do all manner of worldly business on the seventh day, but thou shalt keep holy the first day in its stead? This is a most important question which I know not how you can answer. If you are a Protestant, and you profess to go by the Bible and the Bible only; and yet, in so important a matter as the observance of one day in seven as a holy day, you go against the plain letter of the Bible, and put another day in the place of that which He has commanded. The command to keep holy the seventh day is one of the ten commandments; you believe the other nine are still binding; who gave you authority to tamper with the fourth? If you are consistent with your own principle, if you really follow the Bible and the Bible only, you ought to be able to produce some portion of the New Testament in which this fourth commandment is expressly altered.

The Sabbath was a sign of the old covenant and wad given to the Isrealites and not the church.

Exodus 31 " Say to the Israelites, Truly you shall keep My Sabbaths, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you [set you apart for Myself ]."

The sign of the new covenant is the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10 "45And the believers from among the circumcised [the Jews] who came with Peter were surprised and amazed, because the free gift of the Holy Spirit had been bestowed and poured out largely even on the Gentiles."

The apostles met and decided what regulations should apply to the Gentiles and said in Acts 15 "8 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well."

Notice that keeping the sign of the old covenant is not listed.

The Bible refers to the Sabbath as a feast:

Levitcus 23 "2Say to the Israelites, The set feasts or appointed seasons of the Lord which you shall proclaim as holy convocations, even My set feasts, are these: 3Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, a holy convocation or assembly by summons. You shall do no work on that day; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings."



Do you keep all the feasts Reddogs?


Why is the Sabbath commandment so relevant to God’s law, and why is there such importance attached to the keeping of the particular day? The answer lies in the wording of the commandment which contains the seal of God.

The Sabbath was the sign of the OLD covenant. If you choose to be under the old covenant you can be, but you will always fall short. The Holy Spirit is the seal in the new covenant:

Ephesians 1 "n Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,"

Ephesians 4 " And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

2 Corinthians 1 "1 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. "


Remove this commandment and any adherent of any religion could subscribe to the other nine.

Not according to the new covenant way of love. We are instructed to love with agape love. Agape love is the God-kind of love which goes far beyond the letter of the law. This is only possible when we have Him in us. Other religions can keep the letter of the law, but only those in Christ can keep the new covenant law.



For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18

You do realize that this means you should be keeping the entire law not just the 10 commandments. Read the texts that follow and you will see commands from the Book of the Law as well as the 10 commandments. Either it is all fulfilled in Jesus or you keep it all.


Protestants who observe Sunday as the day of worship are honoring the mark of Roman Catholicism. Roman Catholics claim:

Sunday is our mark of authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.The Catholic Record

Do you acknowledge the authority of the Catholic church when you go to vespers?



God told His people exactly what blessings they would enjoy should they obey and what curses they would experience if they should disobey. The choice was theirs. God’s law is not designed as a means of punishing the disobedient, but the consequences of disobedience are self-inflicted. God does not ask us to keep His law in order to be saved, but rather the law is given to those who are redeemed to protect them from harm. Obedience to God’s law which Christ points to is an expression of love; it is the means whereby we develop a intimate relationship with Him.

We have been redeemed from the curse of the law!!

Galatians 3 " Christ purchased our freedom [redeeming us] from the curse (doom) of the Law [and its condemnation] by [Himself] becoming a curse for us, for it is written [in the Scriptures], Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree (is crucified);"

We have died to the commands in the law. Now we are free to live for Him:

Galatians 2 " For I through the Law [under the operation of the curse of the Law] have [in Christ's death for me] myself died to the Law and all the Law's demands upon me, so that I may [henceforth] live to and for God."
 
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reddogs

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As I said, you are not following the word of God as the words are clear that these are Gods Law, His Commandments that Jesus points to and the truth is right in front of you but you reject it. It is not the Holy Spirit but a deceiving spirit that is not of God that you are following and this false spirit is not allowing you to discern truth and tells you a lie so you continue to hold unto iniquity and feel no need to repent from sin or be cleansed from it.
 
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Eila

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As I said, you are not following the word of God as the words are clear that these are Gods Law, His Commandments that Jesus points to and the truth is right in front of you but you reject it. It is not the Holy Spirit but a deceiving spirit that is not of God that you are following and this false spirit is not allowing you to discern truth and tells you a lie so you continue to hold unto iniquity and feel no need to repent from sin or be cleansed from it.

You will have to point me to the text that says God's Law = only the 10 commandments.

It is interesting that you point out that I am following a deceiving spirit. Most of my post was quoting the Bible.

Where do you get the idea that I feel no need to repent from sin?

Can you tell me how you don't honor the authority of the Catholic church when you go to vespers?
 
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reddogs

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God's Law, as I said before, is the embodiment of His love. He showed His love at creation in many ways including His gift of the Sabbath and showed His love Himself to Adam in the Garden of Eden, then after he sinned telling him the plan of redemption and He wrote out the core understanding of how to love God and your fellowman in stone with His own hand and His Son reaffirmed it. Jesus wants to bring you to Him with His love and the Law is part of His love, it defines what Jesus and the Father want for us, love God and love our fellowman.

The devil also knows the bible and can present himself as a" angel of light' as many will be deceived by his minions and false spirit which denies the basis of Gods love....
 
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freeindeed2

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As I said, you are not following the word of God as the words are clear that these are Gods Law, His Commandments that Jesus points to and the truth is right in front of you but you reject it. It is not the Holy Spirit but a deceiving spirit that is not of God that you are following and this false spirit is not allowing you to discern truth and tells you a lie so you continue to hold unto iniquity and feel no need to repent from sin or be cleansed from it.
Jesus is right in front of you asking you to trust him to cleanse you from all your sin, and instead you embrace the law which will only condemn you.

The law pointed to Jesus, not the other way around! Jesus IS the truth!

And Eila's post was full of Scripture that you have not responded to. You accuse her of following a 'false spirit' by your own estimation, which (thankfully!) doesn't make you correct just because you said it. If anything, it is those who still attempt to live under the old covenant/10 commandments that are not following the Spirit of God, rather they are trying to be justified by how they keep the old covenant. What they do not realize is that it will only condemn them as they do not keep it (and even if they did, it doesn't transform their sin nature they were born with!).
 
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Adventtruth

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God's Law, as I said before, is the embodiment of His love.

Not so redd...God is infinitley Loving to His Son who is the embodiment of His love.

He showed His love at creation in many ways including His gift of the Sabbath and showed His love Himself to Adam in the Garden of Eden,

Now you have no bible text for that, do you redd

then after he sinned telling him the plan of redemption and He wrote out the core understanding of how to love God and your fellowman in stone with His own hand and His Son reaffirmed it. Jesus wants to bring you to Him with His love and the Law is part of His love, it defines what Jesus and the Father want for us, love God and love our fellowman.

But redd...does the law bring us to Jesus and after that we have no need for the law, correct?

AT:)
 
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Eila

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AT,

I personally feel at perfection the law has no claim on us, if we walk with God like Enoch then we are fine. But Jesus Christ will decide if we are like Enoch at the second coming, that is where faith comes in. We cannot judge ourselves.

What happens if you die right now and are not like Enoch yet?
 
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reddogs

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If you repent from sin and accept grace and let the Holy Spirit do its work then we have to put our faith in Jesus. But we still cannot judge ourselves, that is up to Christ.


I think we are coming closer to a understanding, I have always felt if we all just let the Holy Spirit lead us with the wisdom of God instead of trying to use the 'wisdom of man', we will be alright.
 
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Sleaker

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As I said, you are not following the word of God as the words are clear that these are Gods Law, His Commandments that Jesus points to and the truth is right in front of you but you reject it. It is not the Holy Spirit but a deceiving spirit that is not of God that you are following and this false spirit is not allowing you to discern truth and tells you a lie so you continue to hold unto iniquity and feel no need to repent from sin or be cleansed from it.


[bible]Romans 2:24-29[/bible]

If the Commandments (The Law) and Freedom in the spirit (The Law of Christ) are the same, why then does Paul make a distinction here:

[bible]Romans 8:1-10[/bible]


Think about it, Law will attempt to tell us when we need to worship, it will set a day, a time, an hour. Saying that Saturday is the appropriate day for Worship since it is the real Sabbath, or that Sunday is because it is the new Sabbath. but Christ reminded us of the true law which says:

[bible]Mark 12:30-31[/bible]


Back to what Romans 8 was saying, since we are free to the law of Sin and death, that is regulations, we are able to freely worship God at all times. It is no longer appointed a time to worship God.

[bible]John 4:20-24[/bible]

I suggest again that it's not about a specific day, time, hour, place, or building. It's about Worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth as he desires you to do. That means it's an outpouring of your life. As you Love God you fulfill the Law.

In 1 Corinthians Paul talks about preaching to different people groups, and we see that he desires to become what the people are, taking on their laws so that he may preach the love of Christ to all, why would he talk about taking on the Law of a Jew if Christians were still bound to the same laws as the Jews? It just doesn't make any sense.

[bible]1 Corinthians 9:20-21[/bible]

Again here there is still a distinction between which law he is under, he is Under the Law of Christ no matter what other laws he puts on or takes off. What is the law of Christ? To love the Lord and your neighbor.

[bible]Romans 13:8-10[/bible]

Love fulfills the law. There is no other law that we are bound to but to Love.
 
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freeindeed2

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If you repent from sin and accept grace and let the Holy Spirit do its work then we have to put our faith in Jesus. But we still cannot judge ourselves, that is up to Christ.
Maybe I'm hearing wrong, but it sound like it's all about you.

YOU repent...
YOU accept...
YOU let...
YOU put...

Do you believe that these are all things YOU do out of the 'goodness' of your own heart? Or are these the result of the Holy Spirit influencing your heart and leading you to them?

reddogs said:
I think we are coming closer to a understanding, I have always felt if we all just let the Holy Spirit lead us with the wisdom of God instead of trying to use the 'wisdom of man', we will be alright.
ABSOLUTELY! We can't trust ourselves (our hearts are deceitful), but we can trust God who lives in us. AMEN!
 
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Sleaker

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ABSOLUTELY! We can't trust ourselves (our hearts are deceitful), but we can trust God who lives in us. AMEN!

Wait a minute, if God gives you wisdom, or discernment, is it still God's? God gave Solomon Wisdom right? Who's wisdom was it? Isn't it attributed to Solomon as his wisdom?

I think we get a little too down on ourselves, we are redeemed in Christ, a new creation created for the good works that God has set before us. We are no longer evil or unclean. If God has changed our hearts, why can't we trust them?
 
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freeindeed2

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Wait a minute, if God gives you wisdom, or discernment, is it still God's? God gave Solomon Wisdom right? Who's wisdom was it? Isn't it attributed to Solomon as his wisdom?
Hey sleaker. I don't think I've posted with you before. Nice to meet you.

God may have given Solomon wisdom, but it's still God's wisdom. Didn't God create ALL things. Do we have 'ownership rights' over any of it? I may say this is 'my' life, but it is He who gave it to me and sustains it, even my next breath.

Sleaker said:
I think we get a little too down on ourselves, we are redeemed in Christ, a new creation created for the good works that God has set before us. We are no longer evil or unclean. If God has changed our hearts, why can't we trust them?
I hear what you're saying, but I'd still have to say that the ONLY good in me is Jesus. I trust in Jesus, not my own heart (because it is still encased in 'fallen, sinful, human flesh'.

The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? Jer 17:9

"For from within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. All these vile things come from within; they are what defile you.” Mark 7:21-23

Just my two cents.:D
 
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Sleaker

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Hey sleaker. I don't think I've posted with you before. Nice to meet you.

God may have given Solomon wisdom, but it's still God's wisdom. Didn't God create ALL things. Do we have 'ownership rights' over any of it? I may say this is 'my' life, but it is He who gave it to me and sustains it, even my next breath.


I hear what you're saying, but I'd still have to say that the ONLY good in me is Jesus. I trust in Jesus, not my own heart (because it is still encased in 'fallen, sinful, human flesh'.

The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? Jer 17:9

"For from within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. All these vile things come from within; they are what defile you.” Mark 7:21-23

Just my two cents.:D

I think it's more based on where you have put your life:

[bible]Matthew 12:35[/bible]
[bible]Luke 6:45[/bible]

I like the way it says it in Luke, good things flow out of the man who has the good heart. If we take ownership for the evil we do, why can we not take ownership for the good we do?

[bible]1 Corinthians 9:1-3[/bible]

Paul doesn't call the people the Lord's work, no he calls the people in Corinth his own work. He says they are his, he takes ownership for the seed that he has sown. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking ownership for what you do in obedience to God. If we are a new creation in Christ then we have the capability to do good, sure it's through the Holy Spirit, but we are still willing it into action. It is still our choice. Look at what Paul says elsewhere:

[bible]Philippians 3:16-17[/bible]

He knows he is following the Lord and knows that his intentions are good, and in it he tells others to follow his example as he follows Christ.

As for ownership, why yes, God gives ownership of things all the time! Maybe we like to refer to it as stewardship in Christian circles but whatever way you look at it God gives ownership of things to different people. In the parable of the Talents, were not the talents given to the people to do with. In the Garden was not Adam given dominion over the earth? And isn't that why Satan was able to steal that dominion? I think we don't allow ourselves to believe we can own anything because we keep listening to Satan telling us we aren't good enough or aren't holy enough to be their, and that God would never trust our evil selves.. Does that make any sense?
 
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I think they are valid statements, considering in it's current state the church doesn't understand obedience to God, or what the Testimony of Christ is. Not to be demeaning, but I think we are accepting a lot of Satan's lies as truths, atleast that's what I've seen in the different congregations I've been to.

I think we need to remember that ever since Pentacost the church has been in the end times, so John's Revelation is just as much a reality to us as it would have been to Christian's in the first century.
 
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reddogs

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So if I fall in 'love' with your wife and commit adultery, thats OK since their "There is no other law that we are bound to but to love...". No sin has been committed according to your wisdom of 'man'.

I dont think that is correct on any level......

The correct interpretation is "As you Love God you fulfill the Law by keeping His commandments" with the Holy Spirit bringing you to that point......


John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoevershall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 
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John's Revalation is most likely referring to the commandments that Christ has set before us in the Gospels. Yes the Law is still in place if you desire to attempt to follow it, but Paul makes it abundantly clear in Romans that you can either try and Fulfill God's Law of your own will, or accept the mercy and grace that Christ has given and take on Christ's Law which is Love. see the difference is that the Old testament Law tells us what we cannot do, even the Sabbath which should not be distinguished between any of the other laws, if you want to pick on the Sabbath then you should start picking on no adultery, or not eating pork... There's no picking and choosing which laws are still in effect, even into today. The difference we see in Romans is that if we love we are fulfilling all the law, Jesus even said this in the Gospels. That's what is referred to as the Law of Christ, for this Law of Love is not based in what we cannot do, but rather what we should do.

Now obedience is still an issue, look at Israel in the desert, God swore in his wrath that the children would not enter into his rest, and they wandered for 40 years. Hebrews and 1 Corinthians 10 warn us about this and give us some good examples. But the obedience is following this new Law of love, not to following the Old Testament commandments.
 
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