The end of Trump, the Left and Fatima

The Grouch

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Since the election of trump i am aware of something that terrifies me. The left are becoming extremely radicalised. There are many many moderate left of center individuals reporting extreme authoritarianism within leftist organisations and groups reporting that they have been ostrasized physically attacked and ran out of these organisations and groups for being "facist, nazis' '" etc and these are left leaning people, how do they view those with more conservitive opinions (maybe the popes revision of the catechism has more to it than i may have first thought)

I think this radicalization of the left is absolutly terrifying. I pray we get 4 more years of trump this may buy us some time to get the church sorted out or at least put on the right path towards getting sorted.

May God help us if trump does not get re elected!!

But even if he is re elected he will be Gone by Jan 2025 what kind of republican will stand what will the left do if they get office either directly via the democrats or a puppet republican all this is leading upto the 100yr deadline of 2029 of the consecration of russia requested by our lady of fatima in 1929. The consecration will be done but it will be late... but how late!!!

Late late or just late but in time

Make hay while the sunshines ladies and gentlemen i fear the next 10yrs is going to get very bumpy and very scary and dangerous... lets just hope late means (still in time)
 

Rhamiel

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We know that things will get worse before they get better, but they will get better

Besides the Fatima prophecy we have many mystics who tell of a future Great Catholic Monarch (or Great French Monarch or Last Roman Emperor or The White Lily, the White Eagle, all names for the same person) who will restore order to Europe along with the Angelic Pontiff

I recommend you read about these prophecies to, it might help flesh out your understanding of Fatima and current events
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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I can think of nothing scarier that having that immature man-baby fascist around to do even more damage to the USA, the environment , race relations ,and international relationships


You made the OP's point with your childish name calling of the president.

We need to be careful and remember that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The left us acting out in an aggressive way which I believe they don't have the intestinal fortitude to sustain.

We need to be concerned with the reaction.
 
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The Grouch

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We know that things will get worse before they get better, but they will get better

Besides the Fatima prophecy we have many mystics who tell of a future Great Catholic Monarch (or Great French Monarch or Last Roman Emperor or The White Lily, the White Eagle, all names for the same person) who will restore order to Europe along with the Angelic Pontiff

I recommend you read about these prophecies to, it might help flesh out your understanding of Fatima and current events

'We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel versus the anti-Gospel.

“We must be prepared to undergo great trials in the not-too-distant future; trials that will require us to be ready to give up even our lives, and a total gift of self to Christ and for Christ. Through your prayers and mine, it is possible to alleviate this tribulation, but it is no longer possible to avert it. . . .How many times has the renewal of the Church been brought about in blood! It will not be different this time.”

– Bicentennial talk given in the United States by the future St. John Paul II, then Cardinal Karol Wojtyla of Kraków, Poland

I think stating it is going to get worse before it gets better maybe understating it some what. Its going to get so bad that God is going to have to intervene communism will be victorious across the entire world there will be much bloodshed many persecutions the great warning and the chastisment and 3 days of darkness over the face of the earth where 3/4 of the worlds population will die
 
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The Grouch

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Both sides are radicalized. I don't think it's fair to blame exclusively the left.


I dont think that is true at all. I dont think the right is radicalised.

Also i am not blaming the left any more than i blame a dog that casts hairs on my carpet clouds that rain upon me they are only doing what dogs and clouds do sometimes its part of their nature.

Violent authoritarianism is part of the lefts nature. The masonic french revolution, the mexican masonic/socialist revolution, The bolshevik revloution, chinas red terror, Hitlers national socialists brownshirts and holocaust, the russian gulages. Well Over 100 million state sponsored democide and genocide deaths can be attributed to the left in the 20th centuary alone
 
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MariaJLM

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I dont think that is true at all. I dont think the right is radicalised.

Also i am not blaming the left any more than i blame a dog that casts hairs on my carpet clouds that rain upon me they are only doing what dogs and clouds do sometimes its part of their nature.

Violent authoritarianism is part of the lefts nature. The masonic french revolution, the mexican masonic/socialist revolution, The bolshevik revloution, chinas red terror, Hitlers national socialists brownshirts and holocaust, the russian gulages. Well Over 100 million state sponsored democide and genocide deaths can be attributed to the left in the 20th centuary alone

Hitler's ideology was under the fascist umbrella, therefore right-wing. Also, why are you bringing up history here? It's not relevant. I'm speaking of the here and now. The modern right is just as guilty of radicalization as the modern left. While the left attacks people for supposedly being homophobic, racist, etc. the right attacks people for being the wrong ethnicity, for being poor, etc.
 
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The Grouch

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Hitler's ideology was under the fascist umbrella, therefore right-wing. Also, why are you bringing up history here? It's not relevant. I'm speaking of the here and now. The modern right is just as guilty of radicalization as the modern left. While the left attacks people for supposedly being homophobic, racist, etc. the right attacks people for being the wrong ethnicity, for being poor, etc.

I have to disagree again, hitler was a socialist his party was the national socialist party he implimented socialist programmes. He was certainly a left wing socialist

I bring up history because the left have a very nasty history and its good to take warnings from history. If we do not know history we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

I do not see any examples of the right wing attacking people for their ethnicity or being poor.. the left love to throw that at the right wing but i never see any evidence for those claims.
 
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Tomm

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Since the election of trump i am aware of something that terrifies me. The left are becoming extremely radicalised. There are many many moderate left of center individuals reporting extreme authoritarianism within leftist organisations and groups reporting that they have been ostrasized physically attacked and ran out of these organisations and groups for being "facist, nazis' '" etc and these are left leaning people, how do they view those with more conservitive opinions (maybe the popes revision of the catechism has more to it than i may have first thought)

I think this radicalization of the left is absolutly terrifying. I pray we get 4 more years of trump this may buy us some time to get the church sorted out or at least put on the right path towards getting sorted.

May God help us if trump does not get re elected!!

Agree, it'd be terrible if the left gets political power.
 
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MariaJLM

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Well hate crimes have certainly become more frequent under Trump. They existed before of course, but not on the same scale. There's something about his administration that seems to be making people think racism and such is more socially acceptable.
 
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The Grouch

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Well hate crimes have certainly become more frequent under Trump. They existed before of course, but not on the same scale. There's something about his administration that seems to be making people think racism and such is more socially acceptable.

I am not saying its wrong, but what is your source for that opinion?

Are these hate crimes (hate the term hate crime. A crime is a crime regardless of hate or like) that are being reported actual crimes or just reports. Are these crime numbers going up because the trump administration is dealing with them more than other administrations. How many of these hate crimes are carried out by those on the left. How many are carried out by those on the left posing as those on the right.
 
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The Grouch

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Maybe but Bronze Age patriarchal ideas violate women’s right to being treated like adults and that does include deciding how many children to have, when to have them or if to have them. It is HER body , the fetus is just borrowing it

So you are left wing and pro abortion or if you prefer the term pro choice i will use that out of respect for you even though i dont think that is a true position as that would mean you were pro choice across the board.. .ie pro choice regarding pedophilia but i doubt you are.. at least i hope you are not.. never the less i will use pro choice if that is what you prefer.

I really dont know what bronze age society was like but if it were as bad as you make out then thankfully we no longer live in a bronze age society.

I dont think anyone, any catholic and certainly not me will argue that women should and do have the God given right to be treated not just as an adult but as any human being should be and that is with absoulte dignity and respect

"God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them."

So to disrespect fellow human beings is akin to disrespecting God

"Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

So i think telling a woman how many children to have, when she can have them of if to have them is a violation of women and if that systematically took place in the bronze age then that system was wrong.

While i think it abhorant to force a woman to become pregnant i do not think mandating that woman who is pregnant is the same thing. For one most pregnancies occur due to women acting according to their own free will. God has determined that the natural result of sexual intercourse may lead to pregnancy. Therefore if you engage in the gift of sex another divine god given right in a natural way that is without the use of contraception you are opening yourself up to the possibility of becoming pregnant. When you use contraception you are trying to circumvent the natural law this means the woman and the man who go along with it are abusing their right. Meaning they are not open to the chance of becoming pregnant so when contraception fails the individuals concerned shift the blame onto the failed contraception and maintain that they still have a right to determine when if at anytime they want to become pregnant yet they never accept that they have violated and abused their own God given right to engage in sexual intercourse. The vast majority of those who use contraception are fully aware of the possibility of contraception failing and the natural result of sex and thus have engaged in sexual intercourse with at least some openess to pregnancy. However for those uneducated individuals who do not know contraception can fail and those who are raped as well as those who are educated but contraception has failed. Once pregnancy is manifest then we are no longer dealing with the god given rights of one individual but 3 individuals and the rights of one can not superceed the rights of another unless the rights themselves exist in a hiararchy.

So say the woman does not want the child but the father does we are dealing with two different rights

1. The right to respect and dignity of the mother who made in the image and likeness of God to decide when or if she wants to become pregnant and decide for herself how she treats her own body

2. The fathers God given right to be a father and protect his children.

Now if there is no child, no pregnancy it is clear the mans right to be a father does not superceed the womans right to choose when or if she wants to become pregnant and think you will agree with me on this point.

However when a pregancy occurs there is the 3rd individual to consider, the child.

Now this child has been given the gift of life by God, therefore life is a divine god given right. So where in the hiarachy of divine god given rights does this right to life place.

The womans right to become pregnant at her own choosing exists because she herself is alive i think you would agree it would be foolish to say a dead woman or a woman who does not exist has these rights because neither a dead woman nor a non existant woman can ever become pregnant and therefore we see dead and non existant women are not given this diivne right by God

Like wise the man's right to be a father and protect his children comes because he is alive. Again it would be foolish using the same reasoning to suggest a dead man or a non existant man has this divine right.

So we see that the divine god given right to life supperceeds at least these two divine God given rights infact all divine god given rights only exist on that first gift of life given by God and thus the divine god given right to life superceeds all other divine god given rights.

Now what logically follows is not going to please you any further. Now because the woman does not want the child but the child exists and because the father wishes to exersize his right to have and protect the child this not only becomes his right it actually becomes his duty.. not only his but the mothers duty also and while the mother wishes to abandon her duty the divine right and duty of the father superceeds the mothers right to determine when or if she has children. The fact is she already has a child as soon as she becomes pregnant.

The fetus (latin for child) does not borrow the womans body. The fetus (child) has its own body. The womans body is simply acting according to nature and fullfilling its duty of care to the child.

A solider has a duty to his country to his fellow servicemen to his fellow country men. Has has a duty and he has to act accordingly and carry out that duty if he does not then he is punished for refusing to carry out his duty.

Yet he has not being given the gift of being a soldier by God, instead that position was bestowed upon him by the state. If then the state can punish a soldier for failing to carry out his duty given to him by the state but the states primary role is to defend and uphold the divine god given rights why can it not punish mothers and fathers for failing to do their duty towards their children.

I go even further

The child has a right to a family because it has a mother and a father, the family is the unit by which a mother and father carry out their duty towards the child. If then the father or the mother violates or destroys the family unit then that individual should be punished by the state also.

I assume you are christian becuase you are on a christian forum. However i understand that nonchristians frequent christian forums.

Either way, may i reccomend a book its a very good read and not too long. Its a book that i have frequently reccomended to both christian and non christian pro choice individuals and it has had much success in helpping pro choice individuals to understand and embrace the pro life position but the funniest thing is the book itself DOES NOT even touch upon the subject of abortion. What i think happens is the book helps the reader to understand human interaction on a much more fundemental level and once that is grasped by the reader the pro life position becomes self evident. Of course you are free to not read it if you are affraid it may change your opinion, after all i wouldnt want to force you to read it. Never the less surely you must be intregued by a book that i claim is powerful enough to change the position of pro choice individuals many of whom were totally dedicated to the pro choice position.

The book is called mere christianity by c.s lewis and it can be found online in the link below. If you so read it just click the next button on the bottom of each chapter to move to the next chapter

https://novel12.com/mere-christianity/-chapter-136443.htm
 
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The Grouch

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Thank you for compleatly ignoring my post very rude and proceeding to express emotionally driven rhetoric instead of engaging in a inteligent rational and logical converstation. This is why the left wing is loosing today because the left have nothing inteligent to say its all empty appeals to emotion

Ive got little bit of a more practical bent and I actually remember what it was like before Roe vs Wade. Women would get the abortions anyway . They’d get maimed , some would become infertile and some would lose their lives to back alley abortionists due to infections and botched surgeries .

I remember the days before burglary was legal. Burglers would break into peoples houses anyway they would get maimed from broken glass some would lose their lives to shootings from gang membership and botched burglaries.

It was also difficult to obtain false finger prints.

Nope its not logical to make a crime legal to make the crime safer for the criminal thats just an empty ilogical emotional appeal that does not stand up to scrutiny

I’ll sorta repeat, a fetus rents a woman’s body , the woman actually lives there. It’s her decision! Men do not have the right to make that decision on HER body

Then i will sort of repeat too

So you are left wing and pro abortion or if you prefer the term pro choice i will use that out of respect for you even though i dont think that is a true position as that would mean you were pro choice across the board.. .ie pro choice regarding pedophilia but i doubt you are.. at least i hope you are not.. never the less i will use pro choice if that is what you prefer.

I really dont know what bronze age society was like but if it were as bad as you make out then thankfully we no longer live in a bronze age society.

I dont think anyone, any catholic and certainly not me will argue that women should and do have the God given right to be treated not just as an adult but as any human being should be and that is with absoulte dignity and respect

"God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them."

So to disrespect fellow human beings is akin to disrespecting God

"Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

So i think telling a woman how many children to have, when she can have them of if to have them is a violation of women and if that systematically took place in the bronze age then that system was wrong.

While i think it abhorant to force a woman to become pregnant i do not think mandating that woman who is pregnant is the same thing. For one most pregnancies occur due to women acting according to their own free will. God has determined that the natural result of sexual intercourse may lead to pregnancy. Therefore if you engage in the gift of sex another divine god given right in a natural way that is without the use of contraception you are opening yourself up to the possibility of becoming pregnant. When you use contraception you are trying to circumvent the natural law this means the woman and the man who go along with it are abusing their right. Meaning they are not open to the chance of becoming pregnant so when contraception fails the individuals concerned shift the blame onto the failed contraception and maintain that they still have a right to determine when if at anytime they want to become pregnant yet they never accept that they have violated and abused their own God given right to engage in sexual intercourse. The vast majority of those who use contraception are fully aware of the possibility of contraception failing and the natural result of sex and thus have engaged in sexual intercourse with at least some openess to pregnancy. However for those uneducated individuals who do not know contraception can fail and those who are raped as well as those who are educated but contraception has failed. Once pregnancy is manifest then we are no longer dealing with the god given rights of one individual but 3 individuals and the rights of one can not superceed the rights of another unless the rights themselves exist in a hiararchy.

So say the woman does not want the child but the father does we are dealing with two different rights

1. The right to respect and dignity of the mother who made in the image and likeness of God to decide when or if she wants to become pregnant and decide for herself how she treats her own body

2. The fathers God given right to be a father and protect his children.

Now if there is no child, no pregnancy it is clear the mans right to be a father does not superceed the womans right to choose when or if she wants to become pregnant and think you will agree with me on this point.

However when a pregancy occurs there is the 3rd individual to consider, the child.

Now this child has been given the gift of life by God, therefore life is a divine god given right. So where in the hiarachy of divine god given rights does this right to life place.

The womans right to become pregnant at her own choosing exists because she herself is alive i think you would agree it would be foolish to say a dead woman or a woman who does not exist has these rights because neither a dead woman nor a non existant woman can ever become pregnant and therefore we see dead and non existant women are not given this diivne right by God

Like wise the man's right to be a father and protect his children comes because he is alive. Again it would be foolish using the same reasoning to suggest a dead man or a non existant man has this divine right.

So we see that the divine god given right to life supperceeds at least these two divine God given rights infact all divine god given rights only exist on that first gift of life given by God and thus the divine god given right to life superceeds all other divine god given rights.

Now what logically follows is not going to please you any further. Now because the woman does not want the child but the child exists and because the father wishes to exersize his right to have and protect the child this not only becomes his right it actually becomes his duty.. not only his but the mothers duty also and while the mother wishes to abandon her duty the divine right and duty of the father superceeds the mothers right to determine when or if she has children. The fact is she already has a child as soon as she becomes pregnant.

The fetus (latin for child) does not borrow the womans body. The fetus (child) has its own body. The womans body is simply acting according to nature and fullfilling its duty of care to the child.

A solider has a duty to his country to his fellow servicemen to his fellow country men. Has has a duty and he has to act accordingly and carry out that duty if he does not then he is punished for refusing to carry out his duty.

Yet he has not being given the gift of being a soldier by God, instead that position was bestowed upon him by the state. If then the state can punish a soldier for failing to carry out his duty given to him by the state but the states primary role is to defend and uphold the divine god given rights why can it not punish mothers and fathers for failing to do their duty towards their children.

I go even further

The child has a right to a family because it has a mother and a father, the family is the unit by which a mother and father carry out their duty towards the child. If then the father or the mother violates or destroys the family unit then that individual should be punished by the state also.

I assume you are christian becuase you are on a christian forum. However i understand that nonchristians frequent christian forums.

Either way, may i reccomend a book its a very good read and not too long. Its a book that i have frequently reccomended to both christian and non christian pro choice individuals and it has had much success in helpping pro choice individuals to understand and embrace the pro life position but the funniest thing is the book itself DOES NOT even touch upon the subject of abortion. What i think happens is the book helps the reader to understand human interaction on a much more fundemental level and once that is grasped by the reader the pro life position becomes self evident. Of course you are free to not read it if you are affraid it may change your opinion, after all i wouldnt want to force you to read it. Never the less surely you must be intregued by a book that i claim is powerful enough to change the position of pro choice individuals many of whom were totally dedicated to the pro choice position.

The book is called mere christianity by c.s lewis and it can be found online in the link below. If you so read it just click the next button on the bottom of each chapter to move to the next chapter

https://novel12.com/mere-christianity/-chapter-136443.htm

My mother had a nice friend and during her labor , the doctor wasn’t sure if he’d be able to save both her and the baby . The doctor asked the husband who he wanted to live!!!!!! I was about 16 at the time and I had never been so deeply shocked by blatant ingrained misogyny before . My immediate reaction was “ why’d he ask the husband! It’s her life, he should ask her.” Thankfully he had too much class to make the decision ( he actually couldn’t) and both mother and baby pulled through. They only had that one child as neither wanted to test their luck.

Ok well, do we know if mother was awake to ask in the first place. If mother was in danger then its possible mother was unconscious to ask.

The life of one does not superceed the life of another.

Did you read the book?

At this point all you want to do promote abortion and contraception, your posts are emotional charged rhetoric that have no logical argument. You may as well just post "keep abortion legal" over and over again because you are making no argument.

I have shown that abortion is against human rights and that it is immoral i have used reason and logic you have appealed to emotion.

The truth is you dont care if it is a child you dont care if it is against human rights you dont care if its against God, you dont care if abortion kills a child... you dont care if its immoral, you dont care what is true or false regarding abortion. You just want to believe as you believe because you are selfish because your ideology means more to you than truth.

Read the book i dare you... but you wont...you know why? Because you are terrified.. you hang on to that ideaology as if you were a child holding onto his teddy bear it gives you security it makes you feel safe but the bear isnt real its not true those feelings are all manifest from yourself and projected onto a false notion. You are deluding yourself, decieving yourself. You love the lie, you reject the truth because you love the lie. You have enslaved yourself to falsehoods in order to justify to yourself (not others) the disbodiement and tearing from limb to limb children, babies you have enslaved yourself to a lie to justify to yourself ripping babies heads off, their arms their legs crushing their spines ripping out their intestines. You have enslaved your mind to your own delusion in order to justify violence towards children... you should bow your head a weap but you wont because the reality is too much for you so you have created this lie this deception this cage, this prison for your mind to protect you from the truth because you can not face the reality of what you are advocating what you are taking part in. Once you support abd advocate the idealism that leads to the deaths of these children you are guilty of all their deaths..the blood millions upon millions of brutally dismembered children are on your hands, you, yourself are guilty and responsible for the biggest hollocaust in history. That is the reality you do not want to face that is why you create falsehoods, cages and prisons for your mind. That is why you are terrified to read the book... incase it destroys the cage and prison and you stand naked before the truth of what YOU are respobsible for... YES YOU!!!

The blood of all these millions of children are on YOUR HANDS and anyone... ANYONE who tries to justify this SAVAGE ideology that HACKS CHILDREN TO DEATH

AND YOU CANT HANDLE THAT!!! so you refuse to accept it.

I just wonder how many abortions you are directly responsible for, i wonder how many women have read your posts and decided to have an abortion or how many who have decided to advocate for abortion based on your posts who have persuade others to have an abortion. You are indirectly responsible for the deaths of millions upon millions but i also wonder how many you are directly responsible for.

THERE ARE NONE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO DONT WANT TO SEE!!
 
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