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The end of the law, the Lord, & faith?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by hraedisc, Dec 31, 2002.

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  1. thetruthseeker

    thetruthseeker Member

    225
    +1
    Here are some more verses from Paul with the word "iniquity" in them in. They all share the original Greek meaning of the word "iniquity." If one verse was not clear, are three?

    Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

    Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works

    2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

    The following is the original meaning of the word "iniquity."

    00458:
    458 anomia an-om-ee'-ah from 459; illegality, i.e. violation of law or (genitive case) wickedness:--iniquity, X transgress(-ion of) the law, unrighteousness. see GREEK for 459


    Remember, Jesus said:

    Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    My question again is simply this: What law is violated or transgressed here?

    Your brother in Christ,
    TheTruthSeeker
     
  2. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    Then I can only say that you are not saved yet. The Law is the schoolmaster that brings us unto Christ, BUT AFTER THAT, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    Yes, the Law shows us how sinful we are, exposes our sins and brings us to our knees begging for a saviour who has fulfilled the Law on our behalf. once you realise that you come under grace as you accept Jesus as Lord.

    But you are no longer under the schoolmaster. What you are teaching others is to go back under the schoolmaster, graduate, then go back there, then graduate etc. You dont find that in the Bible.

    Ga 3:24* Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    Ga 3:25* But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    v25 makes it very clear, so pls stop going back under the schoolmaster.
     
  3. Wonder

    Wonder Member

    108
    +0
    How many people do you know who have gone to the schoolmaster...How can one go back to a place they never been?
    I am not asking people to stay in kindergarden (OT)...but that is a great place to start. If one was to start in college (NT)...they wouldn't understand much. The OT teaches all the basics..then we can build on that. If one DOES the OT then alot of what is spoken in the NT is real...
    You simply can't stop something you never did to start. Do the Law, then try moving on.
     
  4. The Thadman

    The Thadman Well-Known Member

    +58
    Pagan
    Married
    US-Others
    Er... My point was that Paul did not write in Greek, so why define the Greek word used in a translation? :)


    Jesus ESPECIALLY would not have used the Greek word for iniquity. He spoke and taught in the Aramaic language. :)

    Shlomo! (Peace!)
     
  5. Elan

    Elan Member

    34
    +0
    :wave: <><, are you still there???  :)

    “For Christ is the end of the law, with the result that there is righteousness for everyone who believes.”  Everyone who believes Christ completed the full requirements of the law are accounted as righteous - righteous by faith.  These believers no longer need the law for righteousness.  Jesus completed the Old Covenant perfectly, errr, I should say, completed it to the satisfaction of God the Father (which I assume is perfect enough).  Fulfilled all the needed requirements, down to the perfect sacrifice.  Whatever the law requirements were, we know God the Father was satisfied because He raised Him from the grave and seated Him on His right hand. 

    Jesus preached salvation by keeping the law right up to the eve of His crucifixion.  On that eve He referred to a New Covenant that was about to come on the scenes.   But He had one more thing to do – go into and through death.  When He died (bearing the sin of the whole world) the law was fulfilled; completed to the satisfaction of the God the Father.  That was the “end” of the righteousness that is by the law.  A line of demarcation if you wish.  The Old Covenant law does not carry over into the New Covenant.  Oh, yes the early New Testament scripture writings record the struggle that ensued as law keeping believers of Jesus Christ wrestled with the new liberty.  But the later writings bear out the law keeping is not needed for righteousness sake for those who are in Christ.

    Now in all fairness, there are those who do not believe that “Christ is the end of the law."  That’s quite all right!  If someone wants to seek righteousness by the works of the law – hey, go for it.  Good luck.  Oh, and don’t seek to be just “blameless”,

    Everyone who was ever blameless in the law still died.  To be raised from the dead by God the Father, as was Jesus, I suspect the law must be kept just Jesus did.  Even Paul recognized something more significant than being blameless before the law, and that was a perfect righteousness in our Lord Jesus Christ. 

     
    We know of the trials of Job – in the end we see that the Lord is full of compassion and mercy.  In the “end”, which I believe refers to the “end” (same word) in 1 Corinthians 15:24, the Lord is full of compassion and mercy.


    Faith has a definite end.  Death pretty much takes the wind out of the sails of faith.  But I don’t believe that is what Peter is referring to here.  On a more upbeat note…. when we arrive at our completed salvation, as it relates to Jesus Christ, we will no longer be subjected to faith.  We will have in reality and substance that which we now only possess by faith.  At the point in time, when the salvation of our souls is obtained …. faith is fulfilled and then departs.

    What a blast that day’s going to be ……………

    Maranatha, :)
     
  6. thetruthseeker

    thetruthseeker Member

    225
    +1
    Hi Andrew,

    I have heard these verses used many times before by those who try to defend lawlessness or disobedience (Sunday sanctity for example). Do you know what being under the schoolmaster means? It is referring to the Law of Moses not the 10 Commandments. The Law of Moses ended at the cross; however, 10 Commandments of Jesus are un-ending.

    The following is a re-post:

    Yes, it is true that the theme of Colossians 2 is about not being judgemental and that the Jews of Paul's time added their man-made traditions to the Law. However, Paul is saying "Why would you follow the man-made traditions that has been added to Moses' law when the very Law of Moses is no longer binding. Don't let any one condemn you for not observing the Law of Moses. It's no longer binding."

    There is a sharp distinction between the Law of God (10 Commandments) and the Law of Moses (ordinances--civil laws "statutes and judgments" and ceremonial laws). The Law of God is eternal and the Law of Moses was made void at the cross.

    Jesus said the following to Israel:

    2 Kings 21:8 Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them.

    Moses said the following:

    Deuteronomy 4:13, 14 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

    The Law of God (10 Commandment) and the Law of Moses (civil and ceremonial laws) were never equal.

    As you know, Jesus wrote the 10 Commandments.

    Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

    As you know, Moses wrote "the Law of Moses."

    Deuteronomy 31:9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

    Moses put the 10 Commandments into the ark of the testimony but put his book of laws beside the ark of the testimony.

    Exodus 25:16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.

    Deuteronomy 31:24-26 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

    Notice how the Law of Moses is said to be "against" (contrary-Colossians 2:14) the people in Deuteronomy. Why? Because it was understood that the people of Israel had not obeyed and would not obey and therefore face the judgements or curses that were written in the Book of Moses (Law of Moses).

    Ezekiel 20:24, 25 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols. Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

    The Law of Moses are called "carnal commandments." This means that they are not eternal. They were short-lived.

    Hebrews 7:12-16 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

    This is why Paul said that Jesus abolished the "commandments contained in the ordinances."

    Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

    Remember, all ceremonial laws pointed to the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus Christ (the Lamb). They were to be abolished by the death of Jesus.

    Hebrews 9:9, 10 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; _Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

    Daniel 9:24-27 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    In Bible prophecy, one prophetic day is equal to one year (Numbers 14:23; Eziekel 4:6).

    According to Daniel 9:24-27, ancient Israel had 490 years (70 weeks) to get it "right" with the Lord "make an end of sin" or repent.

    The "commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem" was proclaimed in 457 B.C. (Ezra 7:1-27) by Artaxerxes.

    Jesus started His mission 483 years (69 weeks) after the command to rebuild Jerusalem, at His baptism.

    He confirmed the covenant for 1 week (7 years) and caused the "sacrifice and oblation to cease" in the middle of the week (3 1/2 years--the duration of Jesus' ministry before He was crucified). God gave ancient Israel 3 1/2 years after His death to repent--to get it right. However, this grace ended after Steven was stoned 3 1/2 years later and the gospel went to the Gentiles.

    The death of Jesus brought an end to meat offerings, sacrifices etc... They all had a part in the yearly sabbaths, feasts. Jesus caused the "sacrifice and oblation" to cease.

    This was confirmed by the ripping of the veil in the temple.

    Mark 15:37, 37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost. And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

    Colossians 2 is referring to yearly sabbaths being nailed to the cross not the weekly Sabbath day. Leviticus 23 names 7 yearly sabbaths.

    Leviticus says that the yearly sabbaths were to be kept along wth the "Sabbaths of the Lord" (weekly Sabbath--Saturday).

    Leviticus 23:37-38 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

    Concerning the shadows, the Ultimate Sacrifice (the center of each type) was given for each one. This means that they are no longer binding. However, they are still being fulfilled. That is another topic all together. Do you think we should start a new thread for that?

    These shadows were given because of sin. However, the weekly Sabbath (Saturday) existed before there was any sin. Therefore, it is not classified as a "carnal commandment or ordinance."

    Now back to the original thought.

    The following is the original meaning of the word "iniquity."

    00458:
    458 anomia an-om-ee'-ah from 459; illegality, i.e. violation of law or (genitive case) wickedness:--iniquity, X transgress(-ion of) the law, unrighteousness. see GREEK for 459


    Remember, Jesus said:

    Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    My question again is simply this: What law is violated or transgressed here?

    Your brother in Christ,
    TheTruthSeeker
     
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