The Ecumenism of the First Council of the Church

[A_Thinker]

Acts 15

6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”

12 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. 13 After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. 14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name.
...

19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.

 

[Dave-W]

Applies ONLY to Gentile believers, Not New Covenant believing Jews.

 

[jahel]

Applies ONLY to Gentile believers, Not New Covenant believing Jews.

That must be because the two were never made one?

 

[A_Thinker]

Applies ONLY to Gentile believers, Not New Covenant believing Jews.

Galatians 3

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

I keep trying to explain all this to my wife, but she was caught in a Judaizing sect for several years before meeting me, and she still can stray into that direction.

 

[Dave-W]

Galatians 3

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

That was written to Gentiles, not Jews.

Read what James and Paul agreed on in Acts 21.20-26. They agreed that Paul did NOT teach the Jews coming to faith to abandon Moses. They agreed that the accord of Acts 15 was to Gentiles. And Paul took up James on his proof to the believing Jews in Jerusalem, (which included animal sacrifice) that he (Paul) neither abandoned Moses himself or taught other Jews to do so.

 

[Dave-W]

That must be because the two were never made one?

You have the wrong idea of “one” if you think that stops unity.

Just as men and women are one, but maintain differing requirements and fulfillments; so Jews and Gentiles are also one but have differing callings and functions (more so than male female differences).

 

[jahel]

You have the wrong idea of “one” if you think that stops unity.

Just as men and women are one, but maintain differing requirements and fulfillments; so Jews and Gentiles are also one but have differing callings and functions (more so than male female differences).

Your post was about new creations in Christ who happen to be Jews. Not about former and latter religions. The former is no longer. (depending on the degree that one sees Jesus)

 

[Dave-W]

Your post was about new creations in Christ who happen to be Jews. Not about former and latter religions. The former is no longer. (depending on the degree that one sees Jesus)

There is no “former and latter religions.” There are different covenants but all are the same religion.

The Jews have a special calling and function in the Body of Messiah that Gentiles cannot fulfill.

 

[jahel]

There is no “former and latter religions.” There are different covenants but all are the same religion.

The Jews have a special calling and function in the Body of Messiah that Gentiles cannot fulfill.

The Jews are the former bride, set aside. I think they have performed the function to date in returning to Israel as a sign from God that we are in ‘this generation’ Are they Christian Jews that wore the star of David? Not really.

 

[Dave-W]

I keep trying to explain all this to my wife, but she was caught in a Judaizing sect for several years before meeting me, and she still can stray into that direction.

Explain “Judaizing sect.”

I suspect your description will NOT match the biblical one.

 

[Dave-W]

The Jews are the former bride, set aside. I think they have performed the function to date in returning to Israel as a sign from God that we are in ‘this generation’ Are they Christian Jews that wore the star of David? Not really.

That is replacement theology and a lie from hell. The Jews have NEVER been “set aside.”

BTW - almost every Messianic Jew I know wears a Star of David.

 

[jahel]

That is replacement theology and a lie from hell. The Jews have NEVER been “set aside.”

Hardly replacement theory if they are fulfilling their part now.

 

[Dave-W]

Hardly replacement theory if they are fulfilling their part now.

Your words: “Former bride set aside.” That is replacement theology.

 

[jahel]

Your words: “Former bride set aside.” That is replacement theology.

And now they’ve been brought back. Mincing words doesn’t change facts.

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

Explain “Judaizing sect.”

I suspect your description will NOT match the biblical one.

Judaizing:
They, as Gentile Christians, adhered to the dietary laws, fabric laws, etc. They kept time and festivals with the Jewish calendar. They insisted on circumcision as a matter of church practice.

In short, Judaizers.

 

[Dave-W]

Judaizing:
They, as Gentile Christians, adhered to the dietary laws, fabric laws, etc. They kept time and festivals with the Jewish calendar. They insisted on circumcision as a matter of church practice.

In short, Judaizers.

Ok. But that is NOT the biblical definition. If you read Acts 15.1, the Judaizers were insisting that no one could be saved without FIRST being circumcised - the final step in FORMAL CONVERSION to Judaism. Refuting that idea was what this “Ecumenical Council” was all about. The decision was that Gentiles did NOT have to become Jews.

So unless that group insisted on formal Jewish conversion, they are not really “Judiazers,” at least not as the Bible describes them.

BTW - there is a verse there in Acts 15 where James talks about Moses being preached in the synagogues every Sabbath. It was an invitation to the Gentiles to learn Torah. IOW they were invited to be a part of it, but not as a requirement. So your group may well want to follow all of that and they are free to do so. What tyey are NOT free to do is REQUIRE it of everyone.

 

[Dave-W]

According to Romans 11, the gospel went to the Gentiles with this reason: to make the non-Messianic Jews jealous. To make people jealous, they have to recognize that someone else has something that should be theirs. To date, the Gentile church has produced VERY LITTLE that looks to a normative Jew like something that is part of HIS faith and practice.

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

Ok. But that is NOT the biblical definition. If you read Acts 15.1, the Judaizers were insisting that no one could be saved without FIRST being circumcised - the final step in FORMAL CONVERSION to Judaism. Refuting that idea was what this “Ecumenical Council” was all about. The decision was that Gentiles did NOT have to become Jews.

So unless that group insisted on formal Jewish conversion, they are not really “Judiazers,” at least not as the Bible describes them.

BTW - there is a verse there in Acts 15 where James talks about Moses being preached in the synagogues every Sabbath. It was an invitation to the Gentiles to learn Torah. IOW they were invited to be a part of it, but not as a requirement. So your group may well want to follow all of that and they are free to do so. What tyey are NOT free to do is REQUIRE it of everyone.

Thank you for proving that you do NOT bother to read what you respond to. Quote, SPECIFICALLY, where I stated that MY church Judaizes. Second, the sect that my wife used to be involved in DID require circumcision as part of salvation. I made that plain. You don't care about truth, just about grinding your axe, and your axe is bizarre. Why is it so important to you to insist that people adhere to the Law of Death?

 

[Dave-W]

And you are not accurately reading my post. You are the one who brought up that group so they are certainly not my people. And claiming circ is mandatory for salvation is NOT the same as requiring full formal Jewish conversion, is it?

BTW - God’s Torah (not that accurately translated “law”) is NOT the "Law of sin and death." Torah means teaching and instruction. There is nothing wrong with God’s teaching and instructions.