The Early Church Fathers did not teach modern Millennialism

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

Thank you in your interest in the relationship between science and Christianity.

Here are some quotes from the Catechism of the Catholic Church showing their friendliness with science. I'm in good company:

390 The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language ...

159 Faith and science: ... there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. ... methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner ... can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God.

283 The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man.

337 ... Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine "work", concluded by the "rest" of the seventh day.​

Again, you quote from extra-biblical resources. Man's reasoning. Man cannot fathom the depths of God. His ways are higher than our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. You show how the Catholic church is friendly to the world, which is enmity with God. You can't see past your own reasoning, to take God at his word that he did the things he did in the way he explained it. Spiritually, one can see the same 3 temptations of Christ right there in the Garden of Eden. There is no reasoning nor science for why God did or does what he does. Explain how he made us with love? Science can't explain love but in a cold dark fashion. Darkness cannot comprehend light. Or do I really need to add the verse numbers and chapters of scripture to refute every word you say as the only foundation your "reasoning" are things outside of scripture? Catechism isn't scripture. It is not, nor ever will be, the final authority of God. I would think God and his word are God's own final authority. Not man's reasoning. Do you read God's word or just recycle the garbage other men conjecture as truth? Your company that you keep has a destination, and it isn't where they attempt to convince you. God tells you where they go. Other men's understanding of God's word, has blinded you to understanding what God's word says to you personally. God is personal. Why else would he have come down personally to show you that? He speaks to you directly, to your heart, in a still small voice. He speaks in ways only you would understand, because he made you. His word is alive and means more than you'll ever know. There are things which promote a better relationship with him in his word. That only you could figure out, because there are things that shape your mind that scriptures reveal by the holy spirit. No one else on this planet, future or past, can tell you what God is saying to you, nor what he has planned for you. Why would you take someone else's word as fact in place of God himself? All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Or is it just easier to stay in the sin you're in, feeding your own ego, exalting your own prideful knowledge, seeking out the world, while God himself is just waiting for you to say "I don't and can't know everything"? Make the Lord, Lord of your life. No one else deserves it, nor is worthy. I lift you up, brother, you do desire knowledge of the Lord, else you would not be here. But fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, not E=mc2. Math, science, it will all pass away. I can tell you commentary, symbolism, the whole nine yards. Words that aren't my own. That fosters strife, debate, contentions, anger, etc. Or I can show you my personal testimony about Jesus saving my life. The love and mercy he showed me in my own personal life. And to find that in your own. God knows the number of hairs on your head. The Catechism does not. Can't even suggest it. What does science tell you about the fact that I love you and want you to be saved because Christ loved me and saved me? That I want to share a table in heaven with you, enjoying eternity conversing on all the new things God HAS IN STORE!!! Scripture says "eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, nor entered into the hearts of men, the things God has in store for those who love him." There is new life that you'll never know about and miss, because you were so busy with the science of this world. I'll help you in anyway I can, but I won't dismiss scripture. Nor would I ever advise you to take mine or anyone else's word over God's word. I care not what you think of me, burn me at the stake if you will. I will praise the Lord with all of creation forever. Science nor commentary will never explain why I do, because there are things you cannot say that are deep in your heart and soul that cannot be uttered.

 

[Tayla]

Other men's understanding of God's word, has blinded you to understanding what God's word says to you personally. God is personal. Why else would he have come down personally to show you that? He speaks to you directly, to your heart, in a still small voice. He speaks in ways only you would understand, because he made you. His word is alive and means more than you'll ever know. There are things which promote a better relationship with him in his word. That only you could figure out, because there are things that shape your mind that scriptures reveal by the holy spirit. No one else on this planet, future or past, can tell you what God is saying to you, nor what he has planned for you. Why would you take someone else's word as fact in place of God himself? ... Make the Lord, Lord of your life.

Actually, God did say this stuff to me personally, speaking directly to my heart, in a still small voice. And yes, I figured them out from the scriptures as revealed by the Holy Spirit as you note. You are correct; only I can know what God is saying directly to me. I do take the word of God himself as the only source of truth. And the Lord is the Lord of my life.

Or is it just easier to stay in the sin you're in, feeding your own ego, exalting your own prideful knowledge, seeking out the world

Sounds like maybe scripture doesn't work for everyone, doesn't make them conformed into Christ's image...

There is new life that you'll never know about and miss, because you were so busy with the science of this world.

Seems odd someone who uses a computer would bad-mouth science. Someone had to do the experiments and construct the theories, then design the gadgets...

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

Actually, God did say this stuff to me personally, speaking directly to my heart, in a still small voice. And yes, I figured them out from the scriptures as revealed by the Holy Spirit as you note. You are correct; only I can know what God is saying directly to me. I do take the word of God himself as the only source of truth. And the Lord is the Lord of my life.

Sounds like maybe scripture doesn't work for everyone, doesn't make them conformed into Christ's image...

Seems odd someone who uses a computer would bad-mouth science. Someone had to do the experiments and construct the theories, then design the gadgets...

it could also diligently ascertained that the number of the beast is the wealth of man's knowledge. WWW

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

it could also diligently ascertained that the number of the beast is the wealth of man's knowledge. WWW

Actually, God did say this stuff to me personally, speaking directly to my heart, in a still small voice. And yes, I figured them out from the scriptures as revealed by the Holy Spirit as you note. You are correct; only I can know what God is saying directly to me. I do take the word of God himself as the only source of truth. And the Lord is the Lord of my life.

Sounds like maybe scripture doesn't work for everyone, doesn't make them conformed into Christ's image...

Seems odd someone who uses a computer would bad-mouth science. Someone had to do the experiments and construct the theories, then design the gadgets...

You contradict yourself. You say the word of God is the only source of truth, when previously, you quote the catechism of the catholic church, philosophy, and scientific method. You're running around in circles. Arguing for the sake of arguing. We have a dual citizenship of heaven and earth at present. Science is a tool used to spread the gospel as far as I'm concerned. I spread the gospel in social media, not gossip. I am on these forums to partake in spiritual warfare as it were and bring people back to the light that are seeking truth, not trying to fight with those who would seek to undermine spiritual truths with science, which I may add is a study of neverending darkness, death, and decay.

 

[Tayla]

You contradict yourself.

God bless you.

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

Goodbye my friend.

I'll still pray for you, as I have been recently since I first talked to you. I don't take meetings by chance. I am a firm believer that God puts everyone in our lives for a specific purpose. If you do church on Sundays, as I do, I hope your service goes well in the morning.

 

[BABerean2]

Philosophy demonstrates the scientific method will result in truth regarding the material physical universe. If someone interprets a Bible passage in a way conflicting with science, they need to change their interpretation. Otherwise their view is false.

Very few Christians understand the scientific fact that time is not a constant.
It can change based on a person's velocity, as compared to the velocity of another person.

Einstein's Twin Paradox demonstrates this principle.


The following was made in the 1950s, but is very well done.
I am a retired science teacher.
At one time I showed it to my science classes each year.

 

[David Kent]

Did Adam age before the fall?

.

That is a question. Perhaps you should have said what you believe first.

Yes he did because time began on the first day.

 

[BABerean2]

That is a question. Perhaps you should have said what you believe first.

Yes he did because time began on the first day.

Gen 3:17　 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;


Adam could not have aged before the curse.

The law of entropy was not the same before the fall.

1Co 15:52　 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.　

1Co 15:53　 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.　

1Co 15:54　 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.　

1Co 15:55　 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?　


Christ's work at Calvary will eventually reverse the curse.
When this occurs the aging process will cease to exist, just as it did before the fall.

　.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Ignatius and/or Papias circa 110 - 115 AD were about the earliest premils, followed by Justin Martyr circa 150 AD. Early amils and premils fellowshipped amicably. Early premils were known as classic/historic, and differed with amils essentially only in their subscription to a literal vs. a spiritual millennium. Other than subscription to a literal millennium, however, classic/historic premil has very little in common with modern dispensational premil.

When did Ignatius teach a future millennium? I have never seen that in his writings.

 

[jgr]

When did Ignatius teach a future millennium? I have never seen that in his writings.

Correct; Ignatius was amil.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Correct; Ignatius was amil.

I agree. Very true.

 

[AlasBabylon]

.

Revelation 20's symbolic '1000 years reigning with Christ' was the golden church age which ended long ago.

Today all former Christian nations are being invaded and destroyed by Revelation 20's Gog/Magog's global hordes. The OT's [Ezekiel 38 & Ezekiel 39] version of Gog/Magog plainly tells us that God sends Gog/Magog against His own people because of their sinful rebellion.