Eilat

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The duel nature theology, ........

Well, if you were in my class, or if i was your Pope or Bishop or Pulpit leader, i would not teach it.
The reason is, its ill defining a Truth.
Its one of those murky not quite wrong, not quite right, Theological ideas.

So, its Sunday, and now let's go to SS Class.

1.) Here is the truth......its a fact that Paul tells us to "reckon" the "old man", dead.
And its a fact that the old man is crucified with Christ.
Its a fact that the born again can "fall from Grace" and back INTO the "flesh"< which is that old man.
So, then.... its a fact that this fallen Adamic "self" is still up and running, which is why Colossians 2tells us that our born again "New Creation", was circumcised from it.
In other words, it it was not still existing, there would be no need for the born again part of us to be separated from it.

2.) So, how do i teach this "duel", idea, so that you are not left staring at me like a Tree full of Owls?

Like this...

Once you are born again, you have now, 2 minds..
You have the original, that is the carnal, the mind of the flesh.... and you have the imputed, that is the "mind of Christ".

So, this is why you can be "double minded", in a way that harms your life.
This is why you can fall from that right mind and not exist in that right mind, as "fallen from Grace".

This is why you can walk in the Spirit, which is the Mind of Christ, or you can exist in the carnal mind, or the mind of the Flesh, that is to "fall from Grace".

3.) Now, if you are trying to protect yourself from deceivers, then you learn what i just taught you, and you apply it to THEM, when they come at you on a Forum.
You just discern if they have the right mind or the carnal mind.

You do it like this..

Jesus, has a mind, and this mind is Truth, so, the way He sees things, is the "right mind".
And that right mind, is what we are to exist in, as "walking in the Spirit".
So, Jesus's mind understands that He is the Savior, He is the Blood Atonement, He is Eternal Life, and His finished work on the Cross is why you are saved and why you stay saved.

4.) So, a darkened MIND that contradicts that, would teach you that your Eternal Life is temporary, your salvation is based on YOUR Effort to keep it, and will tell you that you can Lose your Salvation.

Jesus would never tell you any of that, as that is not the Mind of Christ.
So, someone who is telling you all that, does not have the mind of Christ....They have the carnal mind.

5.) See all that?
That is the "fallen from Grace" wrong mind, and that is always the carnal mind theology of a deceived person who is born again, yet faith corrupted, or its the carnal mind of a Religious person, who is not actually born again, but behaves and sounds as if they are, and they indeed falsely believe they are saved.
 
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garee

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The duel nature theology, ........

Well, if you were in my class, or if i was your Pope or Bishop or Pulpit leader, i would not teach it.
The reason is, its ill defining a Truth.
Its one of those murky not quite wrong, not quite right, Theological ideas.

So, its Sunday, and now let's go to SS Class.

1.) Here is the truth......its a fact that Paul tells us to "reckon" the "old man", dead.
And its a fact that the old man is crucified with Christ.
Its a fact that the born again can "fall from Grace" and back INTO the "flesh"< which is that old man.
So, then.... its a fact that this fallen Adamic "self" is still up and running, which is why Colossians 2tells us that our born again "New Creation", was circumcised from it.
In other words, it it was not still existing, there would be no need for the born again part of us to be separated from it.

2.) So, how do i teach this "duel", idea, so that you are not left staring at me like a Tree full of Owls?

Like this...

Once you are born again, you have now, 2 minds..
You have the original, that is the carnal, the mind of the flesh.... and you have the imputed, that is the "mind of Christ".

So, this is why you can be "double minded", in a way that harms your life.
This is why you can fall from that right mind and not exist in that right mind, as "fallen from Grace".

This is why you can walk in the Spirit, which is the Mind of Christ, or you can exist in the carnal mind, or the mind of the Flesh, that is to "fall from Grace".

3.) Now, if you are trying to protect yourself from deceivers, then you learn what i just taught you, and you apply it to THEM, when they come at you on a Forum.
You just discern if they have the right mind or the carnal mind.

You do it like this..

Jesus, has a mind, and this mind is Truth, so, the way He sees things, is the "right mind".
And that right mind, is what we are to exist in, as "walking in the Spirit".
So, Jesus's mind understands that He is the Savior, He is the Blood Atonement, He is Eternal Life, and His finished work on the Cross is why you are saved and why you stay saved.

4.) So, a darkened MIND that contradicts that, would teach you that your Eternal Life is temporary, your salvation is based on YOUR Effort to keep it, and will tell you that you can Lose your Salvation.

Jesus would never tell you any of that, as that is not the Mind of Christ.
So, someone who is telling you all that, does not have the mind of Christ....They have the carnal mind.

5.) See all that?
That is the "fallen from Grace" wrong mind, and that is always the carnal mind theology of a deceived person who is born again, yet faith corrupted, or its the carnal mind of a Religious person, who is not actually born again, but behaves and sounds as if they are, and they indeed falsely believe they are saved.

Yes only God knows the hearts of all men and knows the end from the beginning. In that way he is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul please he performs the work revealed by His will empowering us to move with it making our burden lighter. if we do not obey and do what it says then we know our hearts remain hard no rest "sabbath" .

Thanks for that clear doctrine. As sons of God, a new creation Christians need and I would think desire reminders of doctrines of God that fall like rain inspired from above. The foundation of the gospel fountain where our new faith comes from above. Faith needed to understand the hidden things of God.

1st. John 3 informs us.

1 John 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

It is what we are are as new creatures Christians What we will be is a mystery ?

.We do know the bride will be the beautiful city named by the father in Acts Christian .Christian a word that literally means "residents of the city of Christ prepared as His bride the church. named after her founder and husband Christ". A befitting name for the beautiful city. .

Something I am working on. I have a question. . . Would you say "to be circumcised" means to be cut off from ones own life or put ones life in jeopardy ?
 
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Eilat

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Yes only God knows the hearts of all men and knows the end from the beginning. In that way he is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul please he performs the work revealed by His will empowering us to move with it making our burden lighter. if we do not obey and do what it says then we know our hearts remain hard no rest "sabbath" .
Thanks for that clear doctrine. As sons of God, a new creation Christians need and I would think desire reminders of doctrines of God that fall like rain inspired from above. The foundation of the gospel fountain where our new faith comes from above. Faith needed to understand the hidden things of God.
1st. John 3 informs us.
1 John 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
It is what we are are as new creatures Christians What we will be is a mystery ?
.We do know the bride will be the beautiful city named by the father in Acts Christian .Christian a word that literally means "residents of the city of Christ prepared as His bride the church. named after her founder and husband Christ". A befitting name for the beautiful city. .
Something I am working on. I have a question. . . Would you say "to be circumcised" means to be cut off from ones own life or put ones life in jeopardy ?

Are you speaking of Galatians 5:6 ?

Let me just hit a few ideas.. for you.

Paul in Galatians 5 was explaining Philippians 3.
IN that, all works to try to be saved or stay saved, or any of man's attempts to connect to God by our self effort...... All this is religion, Religion in general is man's attempt to fellowship with God or to become like God, by his own effort, and Paul is teaching that this is futile, useless, and a fail.
The reason being....Only God can make us like Himself......We can't do it.
God originally made us like Himself...>"in His image", and after the fall, He came as Jesus to make us like Himself again, and that re-made exactly like God part, is our Born Again Spirit. Its the "new Creation" IN Christ.

And there is also the idea, that being "called apart" from the world is a type of circumcision from the world.
WE the born again, EXIST within God's Spirit. And you are never taught this, because contemporary Church, is very cloudy and foggy and unclear regarding Paul's Doctrine.
The born again are BORN INTO God's Spirit...That is the NEW BIRTH......we are "IN CHRIST" and Christ is God. The born again are "ONE" SPIRITUALLY, with God and Christ.
'Spiritual UNION"....for ETERNITY.

The Kingdom of God is within us, because God is in us, and we are IN the Everlasting Kingdom of God, having been "translated from Darkness, TO Light".
See that 'TO" ??? That means "become".
This is why the born again are defined as being "Children of the Light" with Jesus being the "Light of the World".
This is why our NT teaches us that..."As Jesus IS, so are the Born again....in this world".
 
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aiki

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So, its Sunday, and now let's go to SS Class.

1.) Here is the truth......its a fact that Paul tells us to "reckon" the "old man", dead.
And its a fact that the old man is crucified with Christ.
Its a fact that the born again can "fall from Grace" and back INTO the "flesh"< which is that old man.
So, then.... its a fact that this fallen Adamic "self" is still up and running, which is why Colossians 2tells us that our born again "New Creation", was circumcised from it.
In other words, it it was not still existing, there would be no need for the born again part of us to be separated from it.

Romans 6:1-13
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

Paul here indicates that the Christian believer has been united with Christ - spiritually - in his death and resurrection so that the believer might, as one who has "put on Christ" (Romans 13:14), walk in "newness of life." Is this "new life" only partially effected? Does it only partially become true in the life of a born-again Christian? Paul doesn't talk this way about being united with Christ:

2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Paul does not hedge here, suggesting that being a new creature in Christ is a fact yet to be completed by the believer, so that he labours under the power of two opposing natures. No, Paul declares "old things," the "old man," passed away, that is, dead, replaced by a "new creation." He doesn't suggest that this is an only partially accomplished state-of-affairs, but a radical and full spiritual metamorphosis of the born-again person.

Colossians 3:3-4

3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.


Here, again, Paul writes of a fully-accomplished fact, not a progressively-true condition, a condition that is gradually coming into being. This condition, he explains, is not just that the Christian has taken on a new nature alongside their old, unregenerate nature, but that the old nature has died and been replaced with life in Christ.

Is it, then, that the Christian has two opposing natures contending within, both alive and powerful, driving the believer back-and-forth between godly living and carnal living?

Romans 6:5-7
5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

Does Paul here sound like he thinks that there is a contest going on between two equal and opposing natures, driving the born-again person back-and-forth between them, serving Christ at one moment and the "old man" at another? No, he writes that "the body of sin might be done away with" and that the believer, who has died to sin, has been totally freed from it.

Romans 6:8-13
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.


In light of all that Paul has explained, he commands believers not to let sin reign in them. He doesn't suggest that they should expect to live under two opposing natures, failing as often as succeeding in their walk with God. No, instead, he tells them to "reckon" or "count on" the truth of their death to the "old man," their old, carnal, Self-serving nature, and to live accordingly, presenting themselves to God as His "instrument of righteousness."

It is not only, then, that the "old man" has been cut away, circumcised, from the Christian believer but that the "body of sin might be destroyed that henceforth we should not serve sin."

The physical body has various biological impulses, that, under the power and direction of the "old man" are not regulated in a God-honoring way. The "old man" - carnal, rebellious Self - only restrains itself in order to serve itself. If such restraint does not serve, it is forsaken for unbounded self-gratification, leading to the ugly, destructive addictions to food, or sex, or drugs, or alcohol, or gaming that afflict so many today.

But, when a person is spiritually-regenerated, made a "new creature in Christ," Self is crucified with Christ, and the physical impulses of the body are brought under the control of the Holy Spirit. What a believer contends with is the habit of indulging fleshly impulses, unconstrained and undirected by the Spirit, not a carnal nature that is still alive and powerful.

Too often, though, the modern born-again Christian is not taught any of this. They know nothing of the crucified life, nothing of what was once known as the "identification truths" of the faith. They struggle mightily with the often powerful habits established under the rule of Self, usually failing to win free of these habits because they have not been taught the truths of Romans 6 and how to live by faith in them. This leads to the thinking (coming out of Buddhism, actually) that there are two "dogs" fighting within every Christian and the one fed most often, wins. This is a false view, however, countered sharply by the writing of the apostle Paul particularly.

Colossians 3:3
3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
 
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