The double standard on "what the government tells me I have to wear"

durangodawood

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What is your solution(s) to the sexual immorality problems I have pointed out in my previous post?
If it involves any sort of stimulus package, may you provide an estimate of the costs?
May you also provide evidence of its effectiveness?
If so, would you say it is more practical than a monogamous, heterosexual marriage?

Please and thank you.
My thinking on this is more around the level of basic values. I havent thought through proper policy yet.

What I would like to see is a world where people can enjoy and explore sex in unashamed premarital monogamy. Where sexual knowledge and contraception is widely available and not stigmatized. And also where sex and marketing is NOT so tightly bound up.
 
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Rene Loup

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If that specific moment is where the value of sex is for you... then perhaps you arent understanding why sex is such a motivating force.

Sex is necessary for reproduction and strengthening bonds between couples. [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] gives sex leading to these more incentive.[1][2][3][4]

I am talking about hook-up culture and casual sex without commitment. That is what is damaging to society, as I have said in my previous posts. When people value sexual pleasure over the well-being of another human being, then that is NOT love, only selfishness.

  1. https://www.babycenter.com/getting-pregnant/how-to-get-pregnant/getting-pregnant-sex_7056
  2. The Physiological Bonds that Happen During Sex
  3. How the 'Love Hormone' Works Its Magic
  4. [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]: Facts, types, causes, and misconceptions
 
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Rene Loup

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My thinking on this is more around the level of basic values. I havent thought through proper policy yet.

What I would like to see is a world where people can enjoy and explore sex in unashamed premarital monogamy. Where sexual knowledge and contraception is widely available and not stigmatized. And also where sex and marketing is NOT so tightly bound up.

Then how can you promote an idea without an evidence-based plan first?
 
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durangodawood

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Sex is necessary for reproduction and strengthening bonds between couples. [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] gives sex leading to these more incentive.[1][2][3][4]

I am talking about hook-up culture and casual sex without commitment. That is what is damaging to society, as I have said in my previous posts. When people value sexual pleasure over the well-being of another human being, then that is NOT love, only selfishness.

  1. https://www.babycenter.com/getting-pregnant/how-to-get-pregnant/getting-pregnant-sex_7056
  2. The Physiological Bonds that Happen During Sex
  3. How the 'Love Hormone' Works Its Magic
  4. [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]: Facts, types, causes, and misconceptions
I think I actually agree with you here: I dont think hook up culture is healthy on average for individuals or for society.
 
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Aryeh Jay

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I am talking about hook-up culture and casual sex without commitment. That is what is damaging to society, as I have said in my previous posts. When people value sexual pleasure over the well-being of another human being, then that is NOT love, only selfishness.

Oh, so the values of President Trump.
 
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98cwitr

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Had an interesting conversation today with my uncle (who I consider to be pretty far right on the political spectrum), and he was on a tangent about "the government telling me I have to wear a mask in stores and out in public is unconstitutional!", and how "I shouldn't be forced to wear something I don't want to just to make others more comfortable!"

I then brought up to him, the fact that he, not even a year prior to mask mandates being introduced, was angry about the fact that in August/September 2019, women's rights organizations in several states won their legal challenge to allow women to go topless in any place a man can.

...their argument was basically the same as his "Why should the government force me to wear a piece of cloth over a particular part of my body when I don't want to, just to make someone else more comfortable?" (and there's not even any public health concerns in play with the latter, just people having their personal religious sensibilities offended)

Figured it'd be an interesting topic to discuss here.

For those who feel that "mask mandates are an infringement of my freedoms, I shouldn't have to wear something I don't want to for the sake of someone else, if they don't like it, they should just stay at home and not come around me", are you of the same position with regards to women's rights groups advocating for the ability to go top-free in any place a man can without any legal ramifications?

...and to take that even one step further, for those who are most ardently anti-mask and very vocal about it, why hasn't there ever been any widespread vocal complaints about "no shirt, no shoes, no service" policies many stores and restaurants have had in place for decades?


One has a sexual aspect to it where the other doesn't. Exposing yourself to a group of 12 year old boys at the beach really isn't a great argument for one's "freedom."
 
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Rene Loup

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Sparagmos

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European countries are FAR more relaxed on sex and nudity than North America.[9] This greatly contributes to children being born out of wedlock, varying from country to country.[1][3] Just like the United States of America.[3]
“Born out of wedlock” doesn’t always mean one parent. Many parents in Europe are simply choosing not to marry, but still live together in committed relationships. And STD and abortion rates are quite low in some of the countries with what you would consider lax sexual morals, and quite high in some countries with very strict sexual morals. Sex education and access to condoms and birth control is key. The degree to which women are treated as equals is key as well.
 
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Sparagmos

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One has a sexual aspect to it where the other doesn't. Exposing yourself to a group of 12 year old boys at the beach really isn't a great argument for one's "freedom."
But exposing people to a dangerous virus is?
 
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pitabread

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Effects of sexual immorality include but NOT limited to abortion,[1] sexually transmitted diseases,[2] social and psychological ramifications of promiscuity,[3] single parent families and the effects it has on the children,[4] which require LOTS and LOTS of taxpayer money to repair.[5][6][7]

The irony is that those preaching sexual morality are also typically opposed to comprehensive sex education which is effective in reducing the above.
 
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Rene Loup

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“Born out of wedlock” doesn’t always mean one parent. Many parents in Europe are simply choosing not to marry, but still live together in committed relationships. And STD and abortion rates are quite low in some of the countries with what you would consider lax sexual morals, and quite high in some countries with very strict sexual morals. Sex education and access to condoms and birth control is key. The degree to which women are treated as equals is key as well.
The irony is that those preaching sexual morality are also typically opposed to comprehensive sex education which is effective in reducing the above.

May you both provide evidence for these claims?

Please and thank you.

As the internet has consistently proven, we all have ideas, but few of us have any actual plans. I personally do not have any plans. I am simply here to exchange ideas, hopefully contributing to a future plan that actually works.
 
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pitabread

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May you both provide evidence for these claims?

Please and thank you.

As the internet has consistently proven, we all have ideas, but few of us have any actual plans. I personally do not have any plans, I am simply here to exchange ideas, hopefully contributing to a future plan.

If you Google sex ed research, you'll find the formal literature is full of examples lauding the benefits of comprehensive sex ed.

A few examples:

Teaching about contraception was not associated with increased risk of adolescent sexual activity or STD. Adolescents who received comprehensive sex education had a lower risk of pregnancy than adolescents who received abstinence-only or no sex education.

Abstinence-only and comprehensive sex education and the initiation of sexual activity and teen pregnancy - PubMed


Data analysis showed that the more abstinence was stressed, the higher were the rates of teen pregnancy and births. Of the four approaches, the most effective was level 1, which included comprehensive sex or HIV education (or both) and covered contraception, condom use, and abstinence.

Comprehensive Sex Education for Teens Is More Effective... : AJN The American Journal of Nursing


There is little evidence that abstinence-only programs are successful in encouraging teenagers from delaying sexuality activity until marriage, and consequently, avoiding pregnancy, or STD or HIV infection. Comprehensive sex education, which emphasizes the benefits of abstinence while also teaching about contraception and disease-prevention methods, has been proven to reduce rates of teen pregnancy and STD infection.

The case for comprehensive sex education - PubMed
 
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Rene Loup

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If you Google sex ed research, you'll find the formal literature is full of examples lauding the benefits of comprehensive sex ed.

A few examples:

Teaching about contraception was not associated with increased risk of adolescent sexual activity or STD. Adolescents who received comprehensive sex education had a lower risk of pregnancy than adolescents who received abstinence-only or no sex education.

Abstinence-only and comprehensive sex education and the initiation of sexual activity and teen pregnancy - PubMed


Data analysis showed that the more abstinence was stressed, the higher were the rates of teen pregnancy and births. Of the four approaches, the most effective was level 1, which included comprehensive sex or HIV education (or both) and covered contraception, condom use, and abstinence.

Comprehensive Sex Education for Teens Is More Effective... : AJN The American Journal of Nursing


There is little evidence that abstinence-only programs are successful in encouraging teenagers from delaying sexuality activity until marriage, and consequently, avoiding pregnancy, or STD or HIV infection. Comprehensive sex education, which emphasizes the benefits of abstinence while also teaching about contraception and disease-prevention methods, has been proven to reduce rates of teen pregnancy and STD infection.

The case for comprehensive sex education - PubMed

Thank you for providing sources. This is an exchange of ideas that we need to read, think about, and figure out practical ways of implementing, even in a Christian school setting. I hope I have also provided food for thought.

None of us win by being 'right', we all win by exchanging ideas, learning from them, and growing in Christ-like character.
 
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Rene Loup

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If you Google sex ed research, you'll find the formal literature is full of examples lauding the benefits of comprehensive sex ed.

Also, nothing personal against you nor anyone else, but here is a word of advice: Anyone can use a search engine. Finding the right sources for information, however, is the more challenging part. It is ALWAYS helpful to provide links to sources when exchanging ideas on a public forum. The best domain names are the following: .edu, .gov, and .org, but not always the case for the last one listed. This is where common sense is useful.

Here are some good fact-checking sources, as endorsed by American Universities:
LibGuides: Fake News & Misinformation: How to Spot and Verify: Fact Checking Websites
Library Guides: Real News/Fake News: Fact Checkers
Research Guides: Journalism: Fact-Checking Sites

Paul Graham gave a very good explanation for effective debate. I found this info-graphic incredibly useful when first learning proper debate:
Welcome to Debate Pyramid!

This is what my mentor told me about online debates: "People are watching."

I hope this helps anyone who is viewing this topic. God bless.
 
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pitabread

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Also, nothing personal against you nor anyone else, but here is a word of advice: Anyone can use a search engine. Finding the right sources for information, however, is the more challenging part.

This is why I tend to use things like Pubmed or other searches of academic/scientific journals. Generally such journal sources will have higher standards for publication than random sites on the internet.

Although it's certainly always worth validating sources.
 
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Rene Loup

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This is why I tend to use things like Pubmed or other searches of academic/scientific journals. Generally such journal sources will have higher standards for publication than random sites on the internet.

Pubmed is now bookmarked. Thank you. If you have any more to share, I would greatly appreciate it.
 
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DaisyDay

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One has a sexual aspect to it where the other doesn't. Exposing yourself to a group of 12 year old boys at the beach really isn't a great argument for one's "freedom."
But why is it only wrong for the ladies? Should men be exposing themselves to groups of 12 year old boys and 12 year old girls at the beach?
 
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98cwitr

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But why is it only wrong for the ladies? Should men be exposing themselves to groups of 12 year old boys and 12 year old girls at the beach?

Pretty sure you know the answer on that without me going into grave details.
 
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98cwitr

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But exposing people to a dangerous virus is?

Can't infect someone with a virus you don't have. You can expose yourself to children though (and thankfully be arrested for it).
 
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