The Doctrine of "Universalism" (Christian Universalism or Otherwise) True or False?

[Angel4Truth]

Davids firstborn by bathsheba was the one in question and the verse about going to baby was clear it wasnt about amnon.

Can you tell me how you can go to a person when you are dead if not going to them in heaven?

 

[GraceInHim]

I believe God can do whatever he wants and we should not say what he does or will do. we should also not judge others, where they will go or not.

example:
Jesus whom is one with God, without sin; he could of threw the first stone to the adulteress which the Pharisees brought before him.. but he did not, he rather asked her where her accusers were and said to her to go and sin no more. hmmmm.. did she repent to Jesus before he heard her fear of stones about to be thrown at her?

God judges and the book of life has not been opened; if it has, please tell me "Is my name written on it"?

 

[Tavita]

I am talking about being in His spiritual will - under His influence - that is absent in the non believer and its sometimes absent in the believer when we greive His Spirit. The bible speaks about desiring His presence and usually indiciative of being in his will and under His guidence - evil is the absent of those things and is sin condition.

This makes it sound like God leaves us when we sin... He comes and goes, and comes and goes. He's absent from us. I don't believe this, I believe He is faithful even when I'm not, and will never leave nor forsake me, even when I sin, and I know that I still think and do evil all the time. We are so fallen we don't know how far we have gone. Sure, I know it grieves Him, but He doesn't depart from me and leave me.

But to say evil is God's absence, I just don't think it fits.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Did you read where I said influence and will or do you believe we are in his will and influence when we sin? Again you arent getting what I am saying because you are taking whats being said to a literal extreme.

 

[Tavita]

Did you read where I said influence and will or do you believe we are in his will and influence when we sin? Again you arent getting what I am saying because you are taking whats being said to a literal extreme.

But you made a statement that was literally extreme. Evil is the absence of God.

I think I'll forget it, Angel4Truth.. we are not understanding what the other is meaning.

 

[Joykins]

Davids firstborn by bathsheba was the one in question and the verse about going to baby was clear it wasnt about amnon.

Can you tell me how you can go to a person when you are dead if not going to them in heaven?

Family plot?

 

[CaDan]

Who? Babies? All that does is get them wet. Let's not get off topic, CaDan.

Yes, babies. You know, the evil little creatures we make. That's your choice of words, by the way.

 

[united4Peace]

This isn't the language of someone interested in an open discussion, but rather, someone quite convinced that they are right, and are charged with the task of proving Universalists wrong, instead of engaging in an open conversation.

Thus, because I have some Universalist sympathies, and because, due to your previous conduct, it seems highly unlikely any actual progress will be made in this discussion, I think I'll stay away for now.

EDIT: Wow. Literally, less than 60 seconds after posting this, I have been reported for irrelevance. Impressive.

reps if I could




I see nothing wrong with Universalism or having some Universalism beliefs...
though Im not Universalist myself I do believe in a God who loves all his/her creation and whose creation is a part of God just as a child is a part of a parent...

 

[Floatingaxe]

The post said David's firstborn. David's firstborn was Amnon.
[bible]2 samuel 3:2[/bible]
[bible]1 chronicles 3:1[/bible]

That would then have been a misquote of scripture.
[bible]2 samuel 12:23[/bible]
David does not say he would see his dead son. He said he would go to him.

When I am dead and I go to God, I will see my loved ones and millions of others! We will have spiritual bodies. After we have been given our new physical, glorified bodies, we will be like Jesus as He is now, and as he was when He was resurrected.

 

[Floatingaxe]

He didn't say he would see him. He said he would go to him.

When I go to my loved ones who are with Christ, I will certainly see them!

 

[Floatingaxe]

Yes, babies. You know, the evil little creatures we make. That's your choice of words, by the way.

What words did I say that YOU are quoting??

 

[CaDan]

What words did I say that YOU are quoting??

"Everyone is born evil and without Christ."

 

[Floatingaxe]

"Everyone is born evil and without Christ."

Do you believe that everyone is born good and with Christ?

 

[Crazy Liz]

Family plot?

When I am dead and I go to God, I will see my loved ones and millions of others! We will have spiritual bodies. After we have been given our new physical, glorified bodies, we will be like Jesus as He is now, and as he was when He was resurrected.

When I go to my loved ones who are with Christ, I will certainly see them!

Now you are changing the goalposts. You used what David SAID as a prooftext. What David SAID does not demonstrate that children who die in infancy go to heaven.

David expected to be buried in the same family tomb as his son.

 

[united4Peace]

Yes, God is omnipresent in His universe, but He is not invited into the heart of an unbeliever, and so it remains evil.

You must understand Him through His word. He is not found in evil men.

And what abou those who are mentally disabled?
Who arent capable of making the decision to believe in God?
Does God send them to Hell?? Or is being the way they are part of God's punishment?

 

[CaDan]

Do you believe that everyone is born good and with Christ?

Tell me how infants escape hell, first. That might influence my answer.

 

[CaDan]

And what abou those who are mentally disabled?
Who arent capable of making the decision to believe in God?
Does God send them to Hell?? Or is being the way they are part of God's punishment?

That question's been sitting out there unanswered for a couple of hours.

It's easy to send Hitler to hell. It's a lot harder to send cute little babies.

 

[Floatingaxe]

And what abou those who are mentally disabled?
Who arent capable of making the decision to believe in God?
Does God send them to Hell?? Or is being the way they are part of God's punishment?

Those who cannot perceive repentance and their own sinfulness, God makes provision for.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Now you are changing the goalposts. You used what David SAID as a prooftext. What David SAID does not demonstrate that children who die in infancy go to heaven.

David expected to be buried in the same family tomb as his son.

That is ludicrous! David, who knew God more intimately than any of us could aspire to, knew the truth that the infant was with God and that he would one day be reunited with him in the presence of God.

 

[CaDan]

Those who cannot perceive repentance and their own sinfulness, God makes provision for.

Were they born evil or were they not born evil?