The Dispensational Place of I, II, and III John

[Phil W]

To me, "works" is anything that one does beyond believing in Jesus's death burial and resurrection for justification.

So refusing to take the mark of the beast...for my salvation...is a work...for salvation?

Okay, in your view, salvation requires you to believe in Jesus and also more than that.

It is only if I don't believe in Jesus that I won't love God above all else and my neighbor as myself.
How can I have faith in someone I won't obey?

Your "more than that" includes water baptism and other commandments correct? Can you give me a rough idea what those commandments are to you?

Without water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, there in no remission of past sins. (Acts 2:38)
There is no entry into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection. (Rom 6:3-7)
No death of the flesh, with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
There is no rebirth.(Rom 6:4)
No new creature. (1 John 3:9)
Without baptism there is no salvation. (Mark 16:16, Matt 28:19)
Without a real, permanent turn from sin there is no salvation.
Without loving God above all else, in every situation, there is no salvation.
Without loving our neighbors as we love our selves there is no salvation.
Without obedience to God there is no salvation.
None of these things is a work of the Law that Paul references multiple times in his epistles.

 

[Guojing]

So refusing to take the mark of the beast...for my salvation...is a work...for salvation?


It is only if I don't believe in Jesus that I won't love God above all else and my neighbor as myself.
How can I have faith in someone I won't obey?


Without water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, there in no remission of past sins. (Acts 2:38)
There is no entry into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection. (Rom 6:3-7)
No death of the flesh, with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
There is no rebirth.(Rom 6:4)
No new creature. (1 John 3:9)
Without baptism there is no salvation. (Mark 16:16, Matt 28:19)
Without a real, permanent turn from sin there is no salvation.
Without loving God above all else, in every situation, there is no salvation.
Without loving our neighbors as we love our selves there is no salvation.
Without obedience to God there is no salvation.
None of these things is a work of the Law that Paul references multiple times in his epistles.

Yes, rejecting the mark of the beast is a work, and dispensationalists generally believe that, once the rapture of the church happens, it will mark the end of the grace dispensation and hence faith and works are required for salvation once again during the Tribulation.

So to sum up your view, after you believe in Jesus's DBR, you will need to get water baptized and follow the 2 greatest commandments of loving God with all your heart, mind and soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself.

Thus, in the "final judgement", God will decide there and then whether you have done enough based on those 2 commandments and only then you will know you are saved.

So far, am I interpreting your view correctly?

 

[Phil W]

Yes, rejecting the mark of the beast is a work, and dispensationalists generally believe that, once the rapture of the church happens, it will mark the end of the grace dispensation and hence faith and works are required for salvation once again during the Tribulation.

This is best left to another thread.

So to sum up your view, after you believe in Jesus's DBR, you will need to get water baptized and follow the 2 greatest commandments of loving God with all your heart, mind and soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself.
Thus, in the "final judgement", God will decide there and then whether you have done enough based on those 2 commandments and only then you will know you are saved.
So far, am I interpreting your view correctly?

Exactly, as scripture outlines it!
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Cor 5:10)

 

[William Lefranc]

I have often wondered how those who are placed in "the dispensation of the grace of God"--as given to Paul for us--can cite the doctrines in I/II/III John as descriptive of our position under grace. There are some on this forum who appear to have built their theology ON his letters. I see it in reverse, John's letters MUST be interpreted in the light of Paul's, which are weightier for us because they are written TO us (whereas John's are written to the circumcision, likely in the earlier Acts period...e.g. "if you confess your sins", "the sin that is mortal", "they went out from us", "heard that antichrist is coming", etc.).

There are not many resources that look into this, but I found this blog article informative...

The Dispensational Place of I, II, and III John

Would appreciate in any insights believers have on this topic. Though I will not be debating it, feel free to!

I believe that dispensationalism is the biggest lie concocted in the last 400 years, beginning with the Plymouth Brethren. Dispensationalism is not biblical at all. It is an invention perpetrated by apostates like Darwin, Scofield and the modern teachers who have imposed their beliefs on the word of God in order to change it from the simple teachings of biblical covenants.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

I believe that dispensationalism is the biggest lie concocted in the last 400 years, beginning with the Plymouth Brethren. Dispensationalism is not biblical at all. It is an invention perpetrated by apostates like Darwin, Scofield and the modern teachers who have imposed their beliefs on the word of God in order to change it from the simple teachings of biblical covenants.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Guojing]

I believe that dispensationalism is the biggest lie concocted in the last 400 years, beginning with the Plymouth Brethren. Dispensationalism is not biblical at all. It is an invention perpetrated by apostates like Darwin, Scofield and the modern teachers who have imposed their beliefs on the word of God in order to change it from the simple teachings of biblical covenants.

If you no longer sacrifice animals for your sins because you recognize that Jesus is the final sacrifice, you are being a dispensationalist, without admitting it.