The Discussion of Speaking in Tongues

[Krishna Basdeo]

Hello fellow brothers and sisters!

My name is Krishna Basdeo, and I have come to once again bring up the topic of speaking in tongues. I am sure there have been countless discussions of it, but nevertheless I am very intrigued in the discussions that arise from its biblical examples, and I am also baffled by the complete unwillingness of some to discuss it.

First, I should tell a little bit about who myself. I consider myself nondenominational (As I do not agree with accepting doctrines. I agree with the truth of God's Word as presented in the Holy Bible.) but I do attend a Church of God denomination church. I do see some of the fallacies inside of the church (as all churches have) yet I grow spiritually there, so I continue to serve and pour into the people around me there.

I am also the only one who follows the Word of God in my household, so I will admit I do not have all of the answers which is why I want this to be a discussion and not a debate.

My preferred version to read out of is the ESV, though I concider all direct translations fine reference points when speaking of Scripture.

Now that my lengthy introduction is complete, I will bring to the table the Scriptures that are important to my decision on the matter.

Helpful Verses: Mark 16:17, Acts 2:1-22 , 1 Corinthians 12:1-11 , 1 Corinthians 12:27-31 , 1 Corinthians 13: 8-10 , 1 Corinthians 14:1-19 , 1 Corinthians 14:39-40 , and the many more you guys will bring up!

So I believe that there is Scriptural evidence that support the movement of tongues in a congregation as long as it is orderly. Paul and Simon Peter imply is that there is a distinction in the types of speaking in tongues, such as the miraculous speaking in unique languages and speaking in a completely unknown language. (Acts 2:6 and 1 Corinthians 14:2) I also belive that prophesy is to be sought after more than tongues in a church because one edifies the self and one edifies the congregation.

Now the discussion to begin!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Now the discussion to begin!

I think you did such a good job of citing verses that the discussion pretty much ended before it began, lol. But yes, I am in full agreement with you. Scripture not only supports the use of tongues in the modern church, it implies it to be an integral part of genuine Christianity, and that any exercise of the faith that does not include the practice of the spiritual gifts is a bastardization or prostitution of it. The question is how to restore the exercise of the genuine gifts, and for this I believe the answer is a return to incessant corporate prayer.

 

[tturt]

According to I Cor 12:28, there is a "...diversities of tongues."

Have you heard a message in tongues with interpretation? My experience has been it is very distinctive from prayer language type of tongues. It isn't planned - neither the message in tongues portion nor its interpretation.

A believer who is used sometimes for the interpretation says he is given a few words. Then as he is speaking those words, he's given more words. When the words stop, he stops. Recognize that is one believer's experience.

Also, sometimes when tongues are spoken for interpretation and there isn't an interpretation per I Cor 14:28, there could be many reasons for this. Maybe the believer with the interpretation is just beginning to be used in this gift and needed more confidence to speak. I believe that there is a learning curve for all spiritual gifts - not that we ever learn everything. But the learning I'm referring to - as the believer who was given the interpretation but didn't speak it comes to realize that they will speak the next time they're given the interpretation. It isn't a word for word interpretation.

These experiences were so - up-to-the-second what our church needed to hear. They were truly edifying.

 

[tturt]

There are many purposes of the gift of tongues including:
- magnifies God (Acts 10:46)
- edifying the believer (I Cor 14:4)
- edifying the church (I Cor 14:5) this is the gift of tongues with interpretation;

Krishna, wondering is there a question or particular concern that you want us to discuss? Have you heard tongues being sung or sung them yourself (I Cor 14:15)? Looks like you've really studied already. I found James 3:8 interesting because it makes it clear we can't tame our tongues but by surrendering them to Him, Yahweh can.

 

[Copperhead]

I am quite certain that all the spiritual gifts are still applicable today. Unfortunately, some groups have taken things to an extreme that is hardly passes as Holy Spirit driven and made many folks dismiss spiritual gifts, like tongues. Robert Tilton, for example, who is well know con artist that passes himself off as a TV preacher and just fleeces the flock for money, has acted many times on his programs like he is speaking in tongues.

 

[Jkrlynch]

We have been deceived. Speaking in tongues in the Bible was speaking different languages not gibberish. That’s why people were amazed. They were speaking in lanuages that other people from other foreigners could hear. Tongues of men not angles. That’s why they needed interperters when others were present from different places. Isiah 1:1-2.
And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord; These are the seven spirits of the lord. He brings the spirit of understanding not confusion or secret languages. The gift of tongues was speaking in many lanuages from men.

When Did the Gift of Tongues Cease?

 

[Imagican]

What about Paul's message to the Corinthians stating that where there are tongues they shall 'cease'???

When do you suppose was Paul referring to tongues 'ceasing'? It wouldn't make any sense if he wasn't implying that during their LIFETIME they would cease. He was speaking about something specific to a specific group of people that were obviously struggling with the issue.

So when WILL tongues cease or did they cease during the lifetime of those who were so instructed. TRUE tongues.

Funny, but 'tongues' DID cease for almost two thousand years. The 'modern tongues movement' is barely over a hundred years old.

We are given NO instruction that they 'would return' once they ceased.

I once encountered a group who spent a lot of their time 'speaking in tongues'. I pointed out scripture that clearly illustrated that what they were doing was contrary to everything mentioned in the Bible about 'tongues'.

The main 'dude' cut me off and yelled at me: "I was a Satanist before coming to Christ and we spoke in tongues then. If Satan has tongues, then God has them TOO".

I politely exited the conversation. Not much I could add to that.

God instilled the 'power of tongues' unto the apostles. They had a NEED for the power. They needed to spread the Word to many people of different 'tongues', (languages). Didn't have time to LEARN them so God instilled into them the ability to speak in other languages without ever having LEARNED them.

There is NO 'language of Angels' as some propose. When angels speak, they communicate in the language of the person receiving the message. Nothing in the entire Bible indicates otherwise.

I have witnessed tongues on numerous occasion. Never have I EVER witnessed tongues being used as Paul laid down the RULES. One, two NO MORE THAN THREE in a gathers and by course: IN ORDER. There MUST be an interpreter and women are to remain SILENT in the 'Church' so far as tongues are concerned. Read it yourself. In the chapter to the Corinthians the ENTIRE chapter concerns TONGUES. The WHOLE chapter including women remaining SILENT in the 'church'.

You know as well as I do that women are not banned from speaking in the 'church' and never have been. They are not banned from singing nor offering prayer or praise.

So it's obvious that what Paul is speaking of is the USE of 'tongues'.

Yet in MOST instances I've ever encountered those 'speaking in tongues', it's the WOMEN, mostly.

Nope folks, no NEED for tongues any longer. Hasn't been since the apostles. No need? The Holy Spirit isn't going to give utterance to something without a NEED. Or are we to believe that the Holy Spirit is 'ignorant'?

And then are the verses that show that tongues are the LEAST important 'gift'. And this, (think about it): Tongues are for a 'sign', NOT to them that believe, but to them that BELIEVE NOT.

So I offer that IF you are a member of a 'church' that practices 'speaking in tongues', you are in the midst of a BUNCH of 'unbelievers' or the 'speaking in tongues' is misguided. Not TRUE tongues. And if it is NOT the Holy Spirit that is guiding such utterance, what OTHER source or influence could it come from?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Jkrlynch]

?

 

[Jkrlynch]

What about Paul's message to the Corinthians stating that where there are tongues they shall 'cease'???

When do you suppose was Paul referring to tongues 'ceasing'? It wouldn't make any sense if he wasn't implying that during their LIFETIME they would cease. He was speaking about something specific to a specific group of people that were obviously struggling with the issue.

So when WILL tongues cease or did they cease during the lifetime of those who were so instructed. TRUE tongues.

Funny, but 'tongues' DID cease for almost two thousand years. The 'modern tongues movement' is barely over a hundred years old.

We are given NO instruction that they 'would return' once they ceased.

I once encountered a group who spent a lot of their time 'speaking in tongues'. I pointed out scripture that clearly illustrated that what they were doing was contrary to everything mentioned in the Bible about 'tongues'.

The main 'dude' cut me off and yelled at me: "I was a Satanist before coming to Christ and we spoke in tongues then. If Satan has tongues, then God has them TOO".

I politely exited the conversation. Not much I could add to that.

God instilled the 'power of tongues' unto the apostles. They had a NEED for the power. They needed to spread the Word to many people of different 'tongues', (languages). Didn't have time to LEARN them so God instilled into them the ability to speak in other languages without ever having LEARNED them.

There is NO 'language of Angels' as some propose. When angels speak, they communicate in the language of the person receiving the message. Nothing in the entire Bible indicates otherwise.

I have witnessed tongues on numerous occasion. Never have I EVER witnessed tongues being used as Paul laid down the RULES. One, two NO MORE THAN THREE in a gathers and by course: IN ORDER. There MUST be an interpreter and women are to remain SILENT in the 'Church' so far as tongues are concerned. Read it yourself. In the chapter to the Corinthians the ENTIRE chapter concerns TONGUES. The WHOLE chapter including women remaining SILENT in the 'church'.

You know as well as I do that women are not banned from speaking in the 'church' and never have been. They are not banned from singing nor offering prayer or praise.

So it's obvious that what Paul is speaking of is the USE of 'tongues'.

Yet in MOST instances I've ever encountered those 'speaking in tongues', it's the WOMEN, mostly.

Nope folks, no NEED for tongues any longer. Hasn't been since the apostles. No need? The Holy Spirit isn't going to give utterance to something without a NEED. Or are we to believe that the Holy Spirit is 'ignorant'?

And then are the verses that show that tongues are the LEAST important 'gift'. And this, (think about it): Tongues are for a 'sign', NOT to them that believe, but to them that BELIEVE NOT.

So I offer that IF you are a member of a 'church' that practices 'speaking in tongues', you are in the midst of a BUNCH of 'unbelievers' or the 'speaking in tongues' is misguided. Not TRUE tongues. And if it is NOT the Holy Spirit that is guiding such utterance, what OTHER source or influence could it come from?

Blessings,

MEC

I think you misunderstood me. Here is a link that I was referring to. When Did the Gift of Tongues Cease?

 

[Ovlov90]

Ive struggled with this subject for 25yrs ever since I put my foot in my mouth not knowing I was speaking to a cessasionist Baptist astor. But it turned out to be a good experience. It lead my to seek out WHY I believe what I believe. By examining all the gifts up against experience Ive come to believe that only once in almost 30yrs have I witnessed the gift of tongues. During a pause in worship a man spoke in another langauge and a moment later a woman interpreted in english. It was a message of encouragement. After service two other people came forward and said they also heard the message in english but one was too shy to speak and the second was too slow. BUT the crux of the matter, for me, is if the gifts are for today why does no one have the gift of healing. Why do we not witness individuals laying on hands and healing blindness, paralysis, deafness, broken bones etc. that alone keeps me in slight doubt that the others still function. And yes tongues are not exclusive to Christianity. Lastly it bothers me when folks just use tongues any time they feel like. Paul gave guidelines for thier use. If no interpreter then keep it in private but all through corporate prayer time and worship people blabber away in unknown tongues. If you believe in thier use fine but except for that one time I still wonder. Oh yes, Ive never had utterence myself.

 

[Jkrlynch]

From what I understand is that the scripture was talking about the gift of tongues was a language not gibberish. It was the disciples speaking in other lanuages then their own so many others from other countries were there and could understand them in their own language.

 

[Ovlov90]

Paul does state “ though I speak in the langauge of men or of angels..” I beliave he was being rhetorical. Im not saying thet are not active today but why is it that everyone it seems has a tongue, fewer a prophecy, then word of wisdom down the line and none the gift of healing. Not that God dosent heal. Thats His vocation. But through the laying on of hands? But I my church family is pentecostal because the cessasionist congregations Ive attended, at least locally, and its very limited in a semi rural area, seem dry and stiff. Hate to use the term, legalistic. By that term Im not questioning thier zeal or salvation, just style I suppose.

 

[Jkrlynch]

Yes he does say angels, but why would angels have a secret language. Language is for us to comunicate to each other. So why would we speak gibberish. The apostles neede to spread the gospel so everyone could hear. That’s why they spoke in other tongues. Also when angels spoke in the Bible it was in a language they could know because they are messengers.

 

[JackRT]

I must admit to having very limited experience in witnessing tongues but from what I have seen it appears to be either a form of hysteria or perhaps deliberate fakery. It is also interesting to note that the earliest tongues event recorded in Acts is not speaking in tongues but rather hearing in tongues.

 

[Jkrlynch]

I used to speak in tongues but I don’t believe it’s from God.

 

[Jkrlynch]

When Did the Gift of Tongues Cease?
Did you read this link?

 

[Ovlov90]

Yes. I never have. They seem like a language. Repetitious phrases. Theyre not unique to Christianity. Other religions exibit them. Which means if they did cease then whats done in church is pagan. Its funny, Im watching a movie from China right now and closed captionng stopped working. I didnt even notice at first. Makes me wonder if anyone has tried to write them down. Document them. Then at a later time research to see if they are a known langauge.

 

[Ovlov90]

IDK. “Slain in spirit” is not in Bible. Sorry, change of subject.

 

[DamianWarS]

Hello fellow brothers and sisters!

My name is Krishna Basdeo, and I have come to once again bring up the topic of speaking in tongues. I am sure there have been countless discussions of it, but nevertheless I am very intrigued in the discussions that arise from its biblical examples, and I am also baffled by the complete unwillingness of some to discuss it.

First, I should tell a little bit about who myself. I consider myself nondenominational (As I do not agree with accepting doctrines. I agree with the truth of God's Word as presented in the Holy Bible.) but I do attend a Church of God denomination church. I do see some of the fallacies inside of the church (as all churches have) yet I grow spiritually there, so I continue to serve and pour into the people around me there.

I am also the only one who follows the Word of God in my household, so I will admit I do not have all of the answers which is why I want this to be a discussion and not a debate.

My preferred version to read out of is the ESV, though I concider all direct translations fine reference points when speaking of Scripture.

Now that my lengthy introduction is complete, I will bring to the table the Scriptures that are important to my decision on the matter.

Helpful Verses: Mark 16:17, Acts 2:1-22 , 1 Corinthians 12:1-11 , 1 Corinthians 12:27-31 , 1 Corinthians 13: 8-10 , 1 Corinthians 14:1-19 , 1 Corinthians 14:39-40 , and the many more you guys will bring up!

So I believe that there is Scriptural evidence that support the movement of tongues in a congregation as long as it is orderly. Paul and Simon Peter imply is that there is a distinction in the types of speaking in tongues, such as the miraculous speaking in unique languages and speaking in a completely unknown language. (Acts 2:6 and 1 Corinthians 14:2) I also belive that prophesy is to be sought after more than tongues in a church because one edifies the self and one edifies the congregation.

Now the discussion to begin!

some feel tongues have ceased based on the historical record that tongues fell out of practice in the church. This group would then see proper use of tongues as a bit of a moot point as tongues is no longer a continued gift of the HS so there is no such thing as proper use within the church because it's no more. Scripturally speaking this is referenced from 1 Cor 13:10 which (paraphrased) says "when the perfect comes, that which is impart will pass away" so the logic is "the pefect" has already come and so tongues are no more.

This is the camp called "cessationist" and my issue with this is the scriptural support is extremely cryptic and the dominate support for this lies within what the church stopped practicing which I feel to be too fickle to a reliable source. tongues may have fell out of practice in the church (3rd century?) but the question really is why did it fall out of practice? Is it because "the perfect" came or is it that these gifts were neglected and faded from use? Because if it's the latter a modern day awaking of the gift would be justified.

The gift of tongues seems to be linked with an evangelistic role and may have been neglected under the security of the Christian Roman Empire where evangelism would have seemed less and less necessarily as everyone was Christian as those who were were enemies of the state. We of course still live in a world where thousands of people groups are still unreached so I feel all the gifts are in full practice until this work is done regardless of a Roman Empire mindset. What I find interesting is despite this debate Pentecostals seem to be the fastest growing in these mission contexts which would seem more consistent if the gifts are looked at with an evangelistic role

 

[Jkrlynch]

Slain in the spirit is not in the Bible. It happens in the Hindu religion also. So I would think it is not of God. The Gurus when they touch their disciples on he forehead they fall back just like in the church. This is called the kundalini spirit.

Back to speaking in tongues.
Matthew 6:7: "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." Now, vain repetition there cannot mean just repeating. It's VAIN repeating. When tongues are spoken they are always repeating over and over.