The Difference Between the Rapture of the Church and the Second Coming of Christ

[Quasar92]

Have you ever stopped to think what the Scriptures tell us where believers go after the death of our bodies? Where are we going when our body dies?

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, IMO, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the tribulation. He will return for all of us who belong to Him, still alive here on earth, at His appearing, according to Jn.14:2-4 and 1 Thes.4:14-18. All those who have died in Him, go to be with Him in heaven, immediately after their physical death, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8. Beginning with Pentecost, they are seen returning with Him from heaven, in 1 Thes.4:14, when He returns for all of us who belong to Him, left here on earth alive at His appearing in the clouds of the sky. Beginning with Jn.14:2-4 and 28, He returns to take us with Him, back to our Father in heaven. As recorded in 1 Thes.4:17, when we will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them [all those who previously died in Him] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

"In my Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me, that you also may be where I am." Vs.3."And you know the way to where I am going." Jn.14:2-4.

And where did Jesus tell them He was going? "You heards me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you. If you loved me , you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." Vs 28. Confirmed in Jn.16:10, 17 and 28.

The important fact in the above to keep in mind is, that it cannot possibly take place when Jesus returns in His Second Coming to the earth. Because, in the above passage, He returns for all those who belong to Him, bringing with Him all those who had fallen asleep [Died] in Him from heaven, AND RETURNS WITH THEM ALL TO OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN!

The above passage is reinforced by Paul, in 1 Thes.4:14-18, alluding to, "will be CAUGHT UP/RAPTURED together with them [The dead in Christ] to meet the Lord in the clouds of the air, in vs 17." Vs 14 refers to God bringing with Jesus, all those who previously died in Him, and are with Him in the clouds of the air, when all of us who belong to Christ, left here on the earth alive at His appearing, meet Him, together with them, in the clouds of the air. Where in vs 15, Paul reveals the entire event is ACCORDING TO THE LORD'S OWN WORD, which is directly from Jn.14:2-4 and 28. The only place in the Scriptures Jesus taught the believers in Him then, what we refer to today as the rapture of the Church.

How does the above teaching of the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church by Jesus, Paul and John, differ from His Second Coming to the earth? Jesus returns in His second coming to the earth, with His entire Church, [After the marriage to His Bride, the Church, in heaven, in Rev.19:7-9] [as well as in Zech.14:4-5; Jude 14 and Rev.19:14], in His armies from heaven, as well as His angels, recorded in Mt.24:30-31. He will return to fight the battle of Armageddon first, to defeat the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them, in Rev.19:11-20. He does not gather anyone to Himself in the clouds of the sky in His second coming, as He will in the rapture, nor does He return to heaven with them, as He will at the rapture of the Church! But rather, to save the remnant of Israel, in Zech.12:10 and Zech.14. Then Satan will be thrown into the Abyss for 1,000 years, in Rev.20:1-3, then to administer the first resurrection, in Rev.20:4 and 6, bringing peace to the entire earth.

He will then establish His 1,000 year reign on the earth. NOTICE that Jesus DOES NOT return to heaven at any time after He sets foot on the Mount of Olives [Zech.14:5] in His Second Coming, until God has created the new heaven and earth, in Rev.21:1, as seen in verses 22-23.Jesus testimony about His Second Coming to the earth, in Mt.24:30-31:"At that time, the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. [At the end of the seven years of tribulation]. [Confirming Zech.12:10-13] Israel in particular, because they will then recognize Jesus as their Messiah FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME. While the rest of the world will finally realize Jesus is who He said He was, the Son of God. You will not see any mourning when Jesus appears in the clouds of the sky at the rapture of the Church, when He calls up all those who belong to Him, left here on the earth alive, before the seven year tribulation begins. But rather, great rejoicing will take place!

They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call and they will gather His ELECT [Jesus is addressing Israel, not the Church which did not exist then, because the Holy Spirit had not from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." Vs 30-31. The angels will gather His ELECT, in Mt.24:31, from the four winds [ISRAEL], from one end of the heavens to the other [THE RAPTURED CHURCH], in His second coming,- confirming Ez.34:11-16, meaning, the Jewish people from all over the entire world. Take notice: No one meets the Lord in the clouds of the sky, here. Nor does does He return from the clouds of the sky with us, to our Father in heaven, as the Scriptures reveal He will in Jn.14:2-4 and 28 and 1 Thes.4:16-17, at the pre-trib rapture of the Church. Nor does Jesus remain in the clouds of the sky, but will take us to our Father in heaven.

Jesus will return in His second coming, to the earth, where He will remain to establish His 1,000 year kingdom here on the earth, according to Rev.20:4 and 6. Jesus Olivet Discourse, recorded in Mt.24; Mk.13 and in Lk.21, pertains to His second coming to the earth and has nothing whatever to do with the Church. Because the ministry during His first advent was exclusively to Israel, as He made abundantly clear in Mt.15:24 as well as in 10:5-6. The Church did not exist until the arrival of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, in Acts 2:1-3, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, in Acts 1:9. It was in response to the questions His disciples had asked Him in Mt.24:3, "...when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age." Which He clearly revealed to them, completely through the seven year tribulation to the signs of His coming and of His actual arrival, in Mt.24:30-31 on the Mount of Olives, according to Zech.14:4-5.

The "second coming" is found in Zech.14:4-5; Jude 14; where you find Jesus returning with all His angels in Mt.24:30-31 and His entire Church following Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in Rev.19:14 [A sign of the righteous acts of the saints, as found in Rev.19:8, NIV], in His armies from heaven. Which makes it quite impossible for any such thing as a post-trib rapture.The entire text by Jesus, from Mt.24:4-31 is an amplification of Dan.9:27, where God has decreed Israel to go through the 70th and final week/the seven year tribulation. Which the Church will not go through, according to 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8. The antichrist is all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27, the very same person found in Dan.7:23-27; 8:9-12 and in 9:27, confirmed by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 8, that immediately follow the pre-trib rapture of the Church, recorded in 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8.

There is no resemblance of Mt.24:30-31, or in any of the counterparts in Mk.13 and Lk.21 of the second coming of Christ, to the earth, to that of the pre-trib rapture of the Church, when Jesus gathers us all into the clouds of the sky and takes us from there to our Father in heaven, as He promised us, in Jn.14:2-4 and 28. And Paul in 1 Thes.4:14-18; 2 Thes.2:1-8. Confirming Dan.9:27. [The latter confirms who the antichrist is, his triggering the 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation and the timing of the pre-trib rapture of the Church as confirmed by Paul in 2 Thes.2:3-4].

From another source: http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-DifferencesBetweenTheRapt.pdf


Quasar92

 

[LowPost42]

How many final trumpets can there be?

Doesn't it all hinge on "when the last trump sounds"?

 

[keras]

I notice, Quasar, that you used another, new verse in support of your rapture to heaven theory.
John 14:28 You heard Me say; I am going away and I am coming back to you...... TO you, not FOR you....
I, and many others have refuted all your so called scriptural proofs of a rapture removal and this is another that shows how seriously in error you are.

 

[BABerean2]

Have you ever stopped to think what the Scriptures tell us where believers go after the death of our bodies? Where are we going when our body dies?

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, IMO, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the tribulation. He will return for all of us who belong to Him, still alive here on earth, at His appearing, according to Jn.14:2-4 and 1 Thes.4:14-18. All those who have died in Him, go to be with Him in heaven, immediately after their physical death, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8. Beginning with Pentecost, they are seen returning with Him from heaven, in 1 Thes.4:14, when He returns for all of us who belong to Him, left here on earth alive at His appearing in the clouds of the sky. Beginning with Jn.14:2-4 and 28, He returns to take us with Him, back to our Father in heaven. As recorded in 1 Thes.4:17, when we will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them [all those who previously died in Him] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

"In my Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me, that you also may be where I am." Vs.3."And you know the way to where I am going." Jn.14:2-4.

And where did Jesus tell them He was going? "You heards me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you. If you loved me , you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." Vs 28. Confirmed in Jn.16:10, 17 and 28.

The important fact in the above to keep in mind is, that it cannot possibly take place when Jesus returns in His Second Coming to the earth. Because, in the above passage, He returns for all those who belong to Him, bringing with Him all those who had fallen asleep [Died] in Him from heaven, AND RETURNS WITH THEM ALL TO OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN!

The above passage is reinforced by Paul, in 1 Thes.4:14-18, alluding to, "will be CAUGHT UP/RAPTURED together with them [The dead in Christ] to meet the Lord in the clouds of the air, in vs 17." Vs 14 refers to God bringing with Jesus, all those who previously died in Him, and are with Him in the clouds of the air, when all of us who belong to Christ, left here on the earth alive at His appearing, meet Him, together with them, in the clouds of the air. Where in vs 15, Paul reveals the entire event is ACCORDING TO THE LORD'S OWN WORD, which is directly from Jn.14:2-4 and 28. The only place in the Scriptures Jesus taught the believers in Him then, what we refer to today as the rapture of the Church.

How does the above teaching of the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church by Jesus, Paul and John, differ from His Second Coming to the earth? Jesus returns in His second coming to the earth, with His entire Church, [After the marriage to His Bride, the Church, in heaven, in Rev.19:7-9] [as well as in Zech.14:4-5; Jude 14 and Rev.19:14], in His armies from heaven, as well as His angels, recorded in Mt.24:30-31. He will return to fight the battle of Armageddon first, to defeat the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them, in Rev.19:11-20. He does not gather anyone to Himself in the clouds of the sky in His second coming, as He will in the rapture, nor does He return to heaven with them, as He will at the rapture of the Church! But rather, to save the remnant of Israel, in Zech.12:10 and Zech.14. Then Satan will be thrown into the Abyss for 1,000 years, in Rev.20:1-3, then to administer the first resurrection, in Rev.20:4 and 6, bringing peace to the entire earth.

He will then establish His 1,000 year reign on the earth. NOTICE that Jesus DOES NOT return to heaven at any time after He sets foot on the Mount of Olives [Zech.14:5] in His Second Coming, until God has created the new heaven and earth, in Rev.21:1, as seen in verses 22-23.Jesus testimony about His Second Coming to the earth, in Mt.24:30-31:"At that time, the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. [At the end of the seven years of tribulation]. [Confirming Zech.12:10-13] Israel in particular, because they will then recognize Jesus as their Messiah FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME. While the rest of the world will finally realize Jesus is who He said He was, the Son of God. You will not see any mourning when Jesus appears in the clouds of the sky at the rapture of the Church, when He calls up all those who belong to Him, left here on the earth alive, before the seven year tribulation begins. But rather, great rejoicing will take place!

They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call and they will gather His ELECT [Jesus is addressing Israel, not the Church which did not exist then, because the Holy Spirit had not from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." Vs 30-31. The angels will gather His ELECT, in Mt.24:31, from the four winds [ISRAEL], from one end of the heavens to the other [THE RAPTURED CHURCH], in His second coming,- confirming Ez.34:11-16, meaning, the Jewish people from all over the entire world. Take notice: No one meets the Lord in the clouds of the sky, here. Nor does does He return from the clouds of the sky with us, to our Father in heaven, as the Scriptures reveal He will in Jn.14:2-4 and 28 and 1 Thes.4:16-17, at the pre-trib rapture of the Church. Nor does Jesus remain in the clouds of the sky, but will take us to our Father in heaven.

Jesus will return in His second coming, to the earth, where He will remain to establish His 1,000 year kingdom here on the earth, according to Rev.20:4 and 6. Jesus Olivet Discourse, recorded in Mt.24; Mk.13 and in Lk.21, pertains to His second coming to the earth and has nothing whatever to do with the Church. Because the ministry during His first advent was exclusively to Israel, as He made abundantly clear in Mt.15:24 as well as in 10:5-6. The Church did not exist until the arrival of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, in Acts 2:1-3, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, in Acts 1:9. It was in response to the questions His disciples had asked Him in Mt.24:3, "...when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age." Which He clearly revealed to them, completely through the seven year tribulation to the signs of His coming and of His actual arrival, in Mt.24:30-31 on the Mount of Olives, according to Zech.14:4-5.

The "second coming" is found in Zech.14:4-5; Jude 14; where you find Jesus returning with all His angels in Mt.24:30-31 and His entire Church following Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in Rev.19:14 [A sign of the righteous acts of the saints, as found in Rev.19:8, NIV], in His armies from heaven. Which makes it quite impossible for any such thing as a post-trib rapture.The entire text by Jesus, from Mt.24:4-31 is an amplification of Dan.9:27, where God has decreed Israel to go through the 70th and final week/the seven year tribulation. Which the Church will not go through, according to 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8. The antichrist is all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27, the very same person found in Dan.7:23-27; 8:9-12 and in 9:27, confirmed by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 8, that immediately follow the pre-trib rapture of the Church, recorded in 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8.

There is no resemblance of Mt.24:30-31, or in any of the counterparts in Mk.13 and Lk.21 of the second coming of Christ, to the earth, to that of the pre-trib rapture of the Church, when Jesus gathers us all into the clouds of the sky and takes us from there to our Father in heaven, as He promised us, in Jn.14:2-4 and 28. And Paul in 1 Thes.4:14-18; 2 Thes.2:1-8. Confirming Dan.9:27. [The latter confirms who the antichrist is, his triggering the 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation and the timing of the pre-trib rapture of the Church as confirmed by Paul in 2 Thes.2:3-4].

From another source: http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-DifferencesBetweenTheRapt.pdf


Quasar92

The resurrection event at the end of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 occurs at the beginning of Christ's Second Coming, on the Day of the Lord when He returns as a thief.

Based on 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 16:15-16, it is a Second Coming event.
.

 

[Marilyn C]

"In my Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me, that you also may be where I am." Vs.3."And you know the way to where I am going." Jn.14:2-4.

And where did Jesus tell them He was going? "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you. If you loved me , you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

The Church did not exist until the arrival of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, in Acts 2:1-3, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, in Acts 1:9. It was in response to the questions His disciples had asked Him in Mt.24:3, "...when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age." Which He clearly revealed to them, completely through the seven year tribulation to the signs of His coming and of His actual arrival, in Mt.24:30-31 on the Mount of Olives, according to Zech.14:4-5.

Quasar92

Hi Quasar,

I also am a pre-trib. believer however there are a few details that we disagree on. For example do you see your mistake in your comments above? The Body of Christ does not exist prior to Pentecost. Thus what we read of the Lord talking to the 12 disciples, is that the Lord is going to prepare a place for them. And that place we read is the city the new Jerusalem which also has the OT saints. It is there that the 12 disciples will rule over the tribes of Israel. (Rev. 20: 14)

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

How does the above teaching of the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church by Jesus, Paul and John, differ from His Second Coming to the earth? Jesus returns in His second coming to the earth, with His entire Church, [After the marriage to His Bride, the Church, in heaven, in Rev.19:7-9] [as well as in Zech.14:4-5; Jude 14 and Rev.19:14], in His armies from heaven, as well as His angels, recorded in Mt.24:30-31.

He will then establish His 1,000 year reign on the earth. NOTICE that Jesus DOES NOT return to heaven at any time after He sets foot on the Mount of Olives [Zech.14:5] in His Second Coming, until God has created the new heaven and earth, in Rev.21:1, as seen in verses 22-23.

Quasar92

Hi Quasar,

Quite a few errors there bro.

1. The Body of Christ is NEVER called the bride or wife of God, only Israel is.
2. We will NOT come down to earth as the armies. The angelic hosts have always been the army of the Lord in God`s word. Jesus Himself only says angels come with him.
3. Jesus returns to His seat of Power and authority to rule over all `in this age and the one to come` as God`s word says. (Eph. 1: 20 & 21) Ps. 47 gives a good picture of the Lord the King of all the earth going UP with a shout. Returning to heaven.

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

The resurrection event at the end of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 occurs at the beginning of Christ's Second Coming, on the Day of the Lord when He returns as a thief.

Based on 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 16:15-16, it is a Second Coming event.
.

Hi BABerean,

The day of the Lord is a specific day and also fig. a period of time. 2 Peter clearly shows that it is over a considerable time period.

1. Thief in the night, when saying "peace & safety," at the beginning of sorrows, pains as a pregnant woman, through the trib.
2. through the millennium,
3. Finally `in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.` (2 Peter 3:10)

Quite a considerable time there before the day of God - `...looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God,..` (v. 12)

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

How many final trumpets can there be?

Doesn't it all hinge on "when the last trump sounds"?

Hi LowPost42,

Concerning the `last trump` being the 7th one in the trib. that would be a very superficial reading of scripture. God`s voice is described `as a trumpet,` (Rev. 1: 10 & 4: 1) and we can see by the different contexts who He is speaking (trumpeting) to.

In Cor. 15 we see that God is speaking (trumpeting) to the Body of Christ, for the last time because after that they will speak `face to face` in glory.

Then in Matt. 24 by context realise that God is speaking to Israel. They are His elect (also). he sends his angels with a great sound of a trumpet.

Then in Rev. 11: 15 we realise that God is speaking (trumpeting) to the nations of the world.

Thus it all, as everything depends on what God is saying and to whom.

Marilyn.

 

[BABerean2]

Hi BABerean,

The day of the Lord is a specific day and also fig. a period of time. 2 Peter clearly shows that it is over a considerable time period.

1. Thief in the night, when saying "peace & safety," at the beginning of sorrows, pains as a pregnant woman, through the trib.
2. through the millennium,
3. Finally `in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.` (2 Peter 3:10)

Quite a considerable time there before the day of God - `...looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God,..` (v. 12)

Marilyn.

Not based on the scripture found below.


1Th 4:13　 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.　
1Th 4:14　 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.　
1Th 4:15　 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.　
1Th 4:16　 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.　
1Th 4:17　 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.　
1Th 4:18　 Therefore comfort one another with these words.　
1Th 5:1　 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.　
1Th 5:2　 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.　

1Th 5:10　 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.　(This verse proves that chapter 5 is connected to chapter 4.)



2Pe 3:10　 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.　
2Pe 3:11　 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,　
2Pe 3:12　 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?　
2Pe 3:13　 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.　


.

 

[Quasar92]

How many final trumpets can there be?

Doesn't it all hinge on "when the last trump sounds"?

In 1 Cor.15:51-54 Paul is teaching about the resurrection and our bodies, where the LAST TRUMPET is referred to. In 1 Thess.4:16-17, he is teaching about the pre-trib rapture of the church.

Before the last trumpet of God can be blown, Jesus returns from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus in heaven, in Rev.19:7-8, in His second coming to earth WITH His Church, in Rev.19:14, He will rapture seven years before. After Jesus defeats the Antichrist, the False Prophet and the ten horns/nations in the battle of Armageddon, in Rev.19:11-21 and throws Satan into the Abyss for 1,000 years, in Rev.20:1-3, the FIRST resurrection, will take place, in Rev.20:4. 1,000 years later, the second resurrection will take place at the Great White Throne Judgment, in Rev.20:11-15. You decide which of them will be the last trumpet of God.


Quasar92

 

[Adstar]

There is no difference between the Rapture of the church and the Second coming of the LORD Jesus Christ.. They both happen on the same day.. We shall be caught up to meet Him when he returns to rule the earth with us for 1000 years.. At the last trumpet.. Yeah the last trumpet mentioned in scripture that reveals the rapture and the same trumpet that is revealed to sound on the day of Jesus return and the Last trumpet revealed in the Book of Revelation as being the 7th trumpet sounding..

 

[Quasar92]

Hi Quasar,

I also am a pre-trib. believer however there are a few details that we disagree on. For example do you see your mistake in your comments above? The Body of Christ does not exist prior to Pentecost. Thus what we read of the Lord talking to the 12 disciples, is that the Lord is going to prepare a place for them. And that place we read is the city the new Jerusalem which also has the OT saints. It is there that the 12 disciples will rule over the tribes of Israel. (Rev. 20: 14)

regards, Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

You are reading things into my OP I have not written. I have never made any claim the church existed before Pentecost. To the contrary. I have made a number of posts here making the point of the Chuch NOT existing until after the arrival of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, as seen in Jn.7:39 and Act 2:1-3.

In Jn.14:2-3 nd 28, Jesus is prophecying to His disciples, events that pertains to all of us who are members of His body, the Church. I agree with you in that the New Jerusalem in the next age is our Father's "house," of Jn.14:2-3.

Rev.19:14 is clear reference to the Church, who are riding white horses, dressed in fine linen white and clean, as described in verse 8, in Jesus armies from heaven. Where have found angels recorded anywhere in the Bible, dressed in fine linen, white and clean? In my 80 years of Bible study, I have never found any such thing.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

Hi Quasar,

Quite a few errors there bro.

1. The Body of Christ is NEVER called the bride or wife of God, only Israel is.
2. We will NOT come down to earth as the armies. The angelic hosts have always been the army of the Lord in God`s word. Jesus Himself only says angels come with him.
3. Jesus returns to His seat of Power and authority to rule over all `in this age and the one to come` as God`s word says. (Eph. 1: 20 & 21) Ps. 47 gives a good picture of the Lord the King of all the earth going UP with a shout. Returning to heaven.

regards, Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

The Scriptures clearly reveal the Bride of Christ is His Church, as recorded below:

Ephesians 5:25-27 ESV / 354 helpful votes
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

Revelation 19:7-9 ESV / 297 helpful votes
Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure”— for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.”

Revelation 21:2 ESV / 160 helpful votes
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Isaiah 54:5 ESV / 142 helpful votes
For your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.

Ephesians 5:25 ESV / 126 helpful votes
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

Revelation 21:9 ESV / 122 helpful votes
Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.”

2 Corinthians 11:2 ESV / 121 helpful votes
For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.

John 3:29 ESV / 112 helpful votes
The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete.

Revelation 21:9-11 ESV / 100 helpful votes
Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal.

Matthew 25:1-46 ESV / 66 helpful votes
“Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. ...

Ephesians 5:27 ESV / 63 helpful votes
So that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

Mark 2:19-20 ESV / 55 helpful votes
And Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them? As long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast. The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in that day.

2 Corinthians 11:1-4 ESV / 50 helpful votes
I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me! For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

Matthew 25:1-18 ESV / 47 helpful votes
“Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. ...

Source: What Does the Bible Say About The Bride Of Christ?


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

I notice, Quasar, that you used another, new verse in support of your rapture to heaven theory.
John 14:28 You heard Me say; I am going away and I am coming back to you...... TO you, not FOR you....
I, and many others have refuted all your so called scriptural proofs of a rapture removal and this is another that shows how seriously in error you are.

First of all, I have posted Jn.14:2-3, 28 on this site many times over. It is not "something new," in what appears in this thread.

Your nit picking as to "coming to," instead of "coming for," does not negate the latter in any sense of the word. After all believers are CAUGHT UP TOGETHER in the clouds of the sky to meet Jesus there, He will take us to our Father in heaven as Jn.14:2-3, 28 documents. I will use the word, Church, for all believers, who are then found in heaven, before the tribulation begins, as recorded in 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8, where the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus takes place, in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, WITH His Church, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, in verse 14.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

There is no difference between the Rapture of the church and the Second coming of the LORD Jesus Christ.. They both happen on the same day.. We shall be caught up to meet Him when he returns to rule the earth with us for 1000 years.. At the last trumpet.. Yeah the last trumpet mentioned in scripture that reveals the rapture and the same trumpet that is revealed to sound on the day of Jesus return and the Last trumpet revealed in the Book of Revelation as being the 7th trumpet sounding..

It is clear you did not read the OP which clearly explains to you the difference between the rapture of the Church and Jesus second coming to earth, WITH His Church, with full Scriptural support.


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

the OP which clearly explains to you the difference between the rapture of the Church and Jesus second coming to earth, WITH His Church, with full Scriptural support.

The event at the end of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 occurs at the beginning of Christ's Second Coming, since there is no trip back to heaven in 1 Thessalonians chapters 4 and 5.

That is the difference.
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[Adstar]

It is clear you did not read the OP which clearly explains to you the difference between the rapture of the Church and Jesus second coming to earth, WITH His Church, with full Scriptural support.


Quasar92

I have heard all the arguments for a pre-tribulation rapture.. already after being online for 15 years in Christian forums..

And as for you point.. Of course Jesus is returning with his saints because they are coming back down to eath with jesus after being raptured up to meet Him on the day of His return.... They are not going to heaven they are going to be transformed in an instant in a twinkling of an eye and they are coming down to rule the world of 1000 years with Jesus..

 

[Quasar92]

The resurrection event at the end of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 occurs at the beginning of Christ's Second Coming, on the Day of the Lord when He returns as a thief.

Based on 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 16:15-16, it is a Second Coming event.
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The Scriptures refute the above views. Jesus returns for all believers/His Church in 1 Thess.4:16, where they are CAUGHT UP to meet Jesus in the clouds of the sky/ From where He will take them to heaven with Him, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28. SEVEN YEARS LATER, Jesus returns to the earth, in His second coming, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in verse 14.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

I have heard all the arguments for a pre-tribulation rapture.. already after being online for 15 years in Christian forums..

And as for you point.. Of course Jesus is returning with his saints because they are coming back down to eath with jesus after being raptured up to meet Him on the day of His return.... They are not going to heaven they are going to be transformed in an instant in a twinkling of an eye and they are coming down to rule the world of 1000 years with Jesus..

In the following four post link, the first post provides the teachings of Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, on the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church, which you have contradicted in the above claims. Opinion is meaningless and I challenge you to find by the Scriptures anything from the four posts in the link below to be false, or those of yours are. The following Link is in the website I founded in 2000 A.D.

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

The Scriptures refute the above views. Jesus returns for all believers/His Church in 1 Thess.4:16, where they are CAUGHT UP to meet Jesus in the clouds of the sky/ From where He will take them to heaven with Him, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28. SEVEN YEARS LATER, Jesus returns to the earth, in His second coming, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in verse 14.


Quasar92

Nice "story".