Dispensationalist Only THE difference between the BODY of Christ and Israel .

[Dan Perez]

There are two important Greek words that separate the Body of Christ and Israel and they are PRO and APO ,

In Eph 1:4 we read Just as He chose us for Himself BEFORE / PRO the foundation of the world .

And in Matt 13:35 we see that it is Jesus that reveals , that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet saying , I will open my mouth in parables ; I will utter things which have been kept secret f FROM / APO the foundation of the world .

The Body of Christ was a secret BEFORE the foundation of the world , a secret MYSTERY and a dispensation , as written in Col 25 and 26 to fulfil the word of God .

But Israel began in the garden , Gen 3:15 and with ATONEMENT at Gen 3:21 AFTER the foundation of the world .

dan p

 

[BrotherJJ]

Throughout scripture two realities are revealed.

Cain physical, Abel spiritual
Ishmael physical, Isaac spiritual (See Gal 4:22-31)
Esau physical, Jacob spiritual
Israel physical, Body of Christ/Church spiritual
Adam physical, Christ Spiritual (1 Cor 15:45)

Humanity begins in the garden, Israel begins on Mt Sinai (1st recorded Pentecost) is where the Nation of Israel is born & the outpouring of the Holy Spirit (1st post resurrection Pentecost) is where the Body of Christ/Church begins.

 

[Dan Perez]

Throughout scripture two realities are revealed.

Cain physical, Abel spiritual
Ishmael physical, Isaac spiritual (See Gal 4:22-31)
Esau physical, Jacob spiritual
Israel physical, Body of Christ/Church spiritual
Adam physical, Christ Spiritual (1 Cor 15:45)

Humanity begins in the garden, Israel begins on Mt Sinai (1st recorded Pentecost) is where the Nation of Israel is born & the outpouring of the Holy Spirit (1st post resurrection Pentecost) is where the Body of Christ/Church begins.

And if the Body of Christ began at Pentecost , that would be in Acts , and is that what you are saying , and if that is so , please show me a verse , please .

dan p

 

[BrotherJJ]

And if the Body of Christ began at Pentecost , that would be in Acts , and is that what you are saying , and if that is so , please show me a verse , please .

dan p

The Day of Pentecost
1 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place,

2 and suddenly a sound came from heaven like a rushing violent wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.

3 There appeared to them tongues resembling fire, which were being distributed [among them], and they rested on each one of them [as each person received the Holy Spirit].

4 And they were all filled [that is, diffused throughout their being] with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues (different languages), as the Spirit was giving them the ability to speak out [clearly and appropriately].
Acts 2 AMP - The Day of Pentecost - When the day of - Bible Gateway

(MY NOTE: Vs 1 When the day of Pentecost had come, Vs 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit)

Moses on Sinai
1 In the third month after the children of Israel had left the land of Egypt, the very same day, they came into the Wilderness of Sinai.

2 When they moved out from Rephidim, they came to the Wilderness of Sinai and they camped there; Israel camped at the base of the mountain [of Sinai].

3 God, spoke to Moses saying, Thus shalt thou "say to the house of Jacob" "and tell the children of Israel";
(MY NOTE: Gen 32:28 God changed Jacobs name to Israel. The 12 tribes of Israel are Jacob's sons. Each son received a portion of Israel's land (except Levi they become the priesthood) Joseph received a double portion of land (Gen 48:2) Jacobs divides his double land portion between his 2 sons Ephraim & Manasseh)

7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.

8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.
(MY NOTE: The people answered & said, """ALL""" that the Lord hath spoken WE WILL DO! They could have said no & left, yet, THEY ALL AGREED to the words the Lord had spoken. Anyone that wasn't part of the House of Jacob when they left Egypt, was now, by choice, part of this Sinai covenant.)

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 19 - Amplified Bible

 

[Guojing]

The Day of Pentecost
1 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place,

2 and suddenly a sound came from heaven like a rushing violent wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.

3 There appeared to them tongues resembling fire, which were being distributed [among them], and they rested on each one of them [as each person received the Holy Spirit].

4 And they were all filled [that is, diffused throughout their being] with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues (different languages), as the Spirit was giving them the ability to speak out [clearly and appropriately].
Acts 2 AMP - The Day of Pentecost - When the day of - Bible Gateway

(MY NOTE: Vs 1 When the day of Pentecost had come, Vs 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit)

Moses on Sinai
1 In the third month after the children of Israel had left the land of Egypt, the very same day, they came into the Wilderness of Sinai.

2 When they moved out from Rephidim, they came to the Wilderness of Sinai and they camped there; Israel camped at the base of the mountain [of Sinai].

3 God, spoke to Moses saying, Thus shalt thou "say to the house of Jacob" "and tell the children of Israel";
(MY NOTE: Gen 32:28 God changed Jacobs name to Israel. The 12 tribes of Israel are Jacob's sons. Each son received a portion of Israel's land (except Levi they become the priesthood) Joseph received a double portion of land (Gen 48:2) Jacobs divides his double land portion between his 2 sons Ephraim & Manasseh)

7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.

8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.
(MY NOTE: The people answered & said, """ALL""" that the Lord hath spoken WE WILL DO! They could have said no & left, yet, THEY ALL AGREED to the words the Lord had spoken. Anyone that wasn't part of the House of Jacob when they left Egypt, was now, by choice, part of this Sinai covenant.)

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 19 - Amplified Bible

Which part of this sermon, Peter actually addressed the Body of Christ?

You can see it was all Israel so far?

 

[BrotherJJ]

At the 1st post resurrection Pentecost Peter receives the promised Holy Spirit.

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(NOTE: John the Baptist made clear that Christ would baptize with the Holy Spirit)

Eph 4:
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The PROMISE = Holy Spirit will be given

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send ""the promise"" of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high
(MY NOTE: Jesus teaches he will send "the promise" the Father made him)

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for "the promise" of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me
(MY NOTE: Jesus tells them to wait in Jerusalem for "the promise" of the Father)

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
(MY NOTE: Jesus foretells the giving/baptism/out pouring of the indwelling Holy Spirit to come)

PROMISE Fulfilled

Acts 2:
1 (A) when the day of Pentecost was fully come
(MY NOTE: When the day of Pentecost had fully come)

4 And they were all "filled with the Holy Spirit" and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance
(NOTE: Here it is "filled with the Holy Spirit" the new covenant begins right here. Christ's baptism with His salvation sealing indwelling Holy Spirit)

Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear
(MY NOTE: After Christ's glorification/resurrection. Christ sends the Promise given to Him from the Father = Holy Spirit)

New Covenant Spiritual Seal: Christ's baptism with the indwelling Holy Spirit

 

[Dan Perez]

At the 1st post resurrection Pentecost Peter receives the promised Holy Spirit.

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(NOTE: John the Baptist made clear that Christ would baptize with the Holy Spirit)

Eph 4:
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The PROMISE = Holy Spirit will be given

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send ""the promise"" of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high
(MY NOTE: Jesus teaches he will send "the promise" the Father made him)

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for "the promise" of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me
(MY NOTE: Jesus tells them to wait in Jerusalem for "the promise" of the Father)

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
(MY NOTE: Jesus foretells the giving/baptism/out pouring of the indwelling Holy Spirit to come)

PROMISE Fulfilled

Acts 2:
1 (A) when the day of Pentecost was fully come
(MY NOTE: When the day of Pentecost had fully come)

4 And they were all "filled with the Holy Spirit" and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance
(NOTE: Here it is "filled with the Holy Spirit" the new covenant begins right here. Christ's baptism with His salvation sealing indwelling Holy Spirit)

Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear
(MY NOTE: After Christ's glorification/resurrection. Christ sends the Promise given to Him from the Father = Holy Spirit)

New Covenant Spiritual Seal: Christ's baptism with the indwelling Holy Spirit

And will you show where the BOC is in the OT as it seems I missed the verse ?

dan p

 

[BrotherJJ]

And will you show where the BOC is in the OT as it seems I missed the verse ?

dan p

In post I #4 cited Ex19:8 where they "ALL" agreed to the Lords demands given through Moses.

The actual marriage contract is realized Ex 20 when the 10 commandments (that they "ALL" agreed to to adhere to in Ex 19:8) are given & the Old Covenant begins. This happened on the 6 day of the Hebrew month Sivan. (Lev 23 records the feast dates)

When Jesus dies & the Temple veil is torn, the Old Covenant ends. After Jesus is resurrected He becomes the High Priest of the New Covenant. 50 days later the Body of Christ is established.

This happened on the 1st post resurrection Pentecost the 6 day of the Hebrew month Sivan.

 

[Guojing]

In post #4 cited Ex19:8 where they "ALL" agreed to the Lords demands given through Moses.

The actual marriage contract is realized Ex 20 when the 10 commandments (that they "ALL" agreed to to adhere to in Ex 19:8) are given & the Old Covenant begins. This happened on the 6 day of the Hebrew month Sivan. (Lev 23 records the feast dates)

When Jesus dies & the Temple veil is torn, the Old Covenant ends. After Jesus is resurrected He becomes the High Priest of the New Covenant. 50 days later the Body of Christ is established.

This happened on the 1st post resurrection Pentecost the 6 day of the Hebrew month Sivan.

You don't believe Paul when he stated in Ephesians 3:1-9, that the Body of Christ is a mystery that is hidden in God, meaning you cannot find it outside of Paul's writings?

 

[BrotherJJ]

You don't believe Paul when he stated in Ephesians 3:1-9, that the Body of Christ is a mystery that is hidden in God, meaning you cannot find it outside of Paul's writings?

No place have I made any such claim. Is it your position that Peter wasn't/isn't part of the Body of Christ?

Paul also taught salvation is offered 1st to the Jew then to the Gentile (Rom 1:16, 2:9-10).

The gentile believers later become a part of the Body of Christ (Acts 10) at Cornelius house.

The fundamental meaning of the word mystery is Secret.
Mystery - Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

Just because the Lord waited to reveal this truth/mystery/secret through Paul. Doesn't mean it wasn't applicable to Peter & any other Jewish believer Christ baptized with His eternal indwelling Holy Spirit at the 1st post resurrection Pentecost (Acts 2;1-4)

 

[Guojing]

No place have I made any such claim. Is it your position that Peter wasn't/isn't part of the Body of Christ?

Paul also taught salvation is offered 1st to the Jew then to the Gentile (Rom 1:16, 2:9-10).

The gentile believers later become a part of the Body of Christ (Acts 10) at Cornelius house.

The fundamental meaning of the word mystery is Secret.
Mystery - Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

Just because the Lord waited to reveal this truth/mystery/secret through Paul. Doesn't mean it wasn't applicable to Peter & any other Jewish believer Christ baptized with His eternal indwelling Holy Spirit at the 1st post resurrection Pentecost (Acts 2;1-4)

When you said "No place have I made any such claim", do you mean to say

I also agree with you that the BOC was a mystery that you cannot find outside Paul's letters

or something else?

I am not clear whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with my reply

 

[BrotherJJ]

When you said "No place have I made any such claim", do you mean to say

I am not clear whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with my reply

Your question to me was:

"QUOTE" You don't believe Paul when he stated in Ephesians 3:1-9, that the Body of Christ is a mystery that is hidden in God, meaning you cannot find it outside of Paul's writings? "End Quote"

My direct answer to this question was. No place have I made any such claim.

I then tried to give my reasons why.

 

[Guojing]

Your question to me was:

"QUOTE" You don't believe Paul when he stated in Ephesians 3:1-9, that the Body of Christ is a mystery that is hidden in God, meaning you cannot find it outside of Paul's writings? "End Quote"

My direct answer to this question was. No place have I made any such claim.

I then tried to give my reasons why.

You said,

When Jesus dies & the Temple veil is torn, the Old Covenant ends. After Jesus is resurrected He becomes the High Priest of the New Covenant. 50 days later the Body of Christ is established.

If you are claiming the above, that means you believe the Body of Christ can be found outside Paul's letters.

Am I correct to conclude that?

 

[BrotherJJ]

You said,



If you are claiming the above, that means you believe the Body of Christ can be found outside Paul's letters.

Am I correct to conclude that?

How many times would you like me to repeat myself? YES ABSOLUTLY!

Every Jew at Acts 2 Pentecost that believed Peters message (3000 souls) & every Jew since then, that has accepted/trusted in Jesus sin atoning death, & resurrection became a member of Christ's body.

 

[Guojing]

How many times would you like me to repeat myself? YES ABSOLUTLY!

Every Jew at Acts 2 Pentecost that believed Peters message (3000 souls) & every Jew since then, that has accepted/trusted in Jesus sin atoning death, & resurrection became a member of Christ's body.

Alright, thanks for clarifying what you meant, that you meant No, I don't believe Paul when he stated in Ephesians 3:1-9, that the Body of Christ is a mystery that is hidden in God.

That is a direct answer, rather than saying "No place have I made any such claim."

In Acts 2, Peter himself did not preach to the Jews to "accepted/trusted in Jesus sin atoning death, & resurrection".

Acts 2:36 sums up what Peter's message was to the Jews.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Alright, thanks for clarifying what you meant, that you meant No, I don't believe Paul when he stated in Ephesians 3:1-9, that the Body of Christ is a mystery that is hidden in God.

That is a direct answer, rather than saying "No place have I made any such claim."

In Acts 2, Peter himself did not preach to the Jews to "accepted/trusted in Jesus sin atoning death, & resurrection".

Acts 2:36 sums up what Peter's message was to the Jews.

The OP headline was: THE difference between the BODY of Christ and Israel.

I cited with scripture The Old (law) Covenant with "Israel Only" began on the 1st recorded Pentecost on Mt Sinai (Ex 19 & 20) with the giving of the 10 commandments.

When Jesus dies & the Temple veil is torn the Mosaic Levitical law covenant ends.

50 days after Christ's resurrection Christ (the High Priest of the NC) pours out/baptizes 3000 Jewish ONLY believers with His salvation sealing Holy Spirit the Body of Christ begins. It's years later at Cornelius house, when gentile believers also become members of the Body of Christ.

Here is an answer & my last reply to you in this thread. You are free to believe & promote whatever you choose. Others are free to read my replies & do the same.

Peter did preach the death & resurrection of Christ:

Acts 2: [paraphrasing]
22 YE MEN OF ISRAEL, Jesus was a man approved by, via miracles, sings & wonders

23 This same Jesus that you had crucified & killed:

24 This same Jesus, God raised from the dead

37 when the MEN of ISRAEL heard this, they asked Peter, what shall we do?
(MY NOTE: Vs 22 men of Israel (NO GENTILES HERE) Vs 23 this Jesus you killed, Vs 24 God raised Him from the dead.)

2ndly:
Eph 3:
1 For this reason [because I preach that you and believing Jews are joint heirs] I, Paul, am the prisoner of Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles

2 assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was entrusted to me [to share with you] for your benefit;

3 and that by [divine] revelation the mystery was made known to me, as I have already written in brief.

4 By referring to this, when you read it you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,

5 which in other generations was not disclosed to mankind, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets by the [Holy] Spirit;

6 [it is this:] that the Gentiles are now joint heirs [with the Jews] and members of the same body, and joint partakers [sharing] in the [same divine] promise in Christ Jesus through [their faith in] the good news [of salvation].

7 Of this [gospel] I was made a minister by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of His power.

8 To me, [though I am] the very least of all the saints (God’s people), this grace [which is undeserved] was graciously given, to proclaim to the Gentiles the good news of the incomprehensible riches of Christ [that spiritual wealth which no one can fully understand],

9 and to make plain [to everyone] the plan of the mystery [regarding the uniting of believing Jews and Gentiles into one body] which [until now] was kept hidden through the ages in [the mind of] God who created all things.
Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 3 - Amplified Bible
(MY NOTE: The brackets above are placed by AMP translators (NOT BY ME). Please go argue your position with them!

Ok,
Rereading Vs 6, (gentiles are NOW joint heirs. They don't become joint heirs until years after (Acts 2:1-4).

Rereading Vs 9, the plan of the mystery regarding the uniting of believing Jews and Gentiles into one body which """until now""" was kept hidden.

I cited scripture & shared (A COUPLE TIMES!) in this thread.

On the Temple Mt during the 1st post resurrection Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4). 3000 Jews receive Christ's salvation sealing baptism of His Holy Spirit & the Body bof Christ is established/begins.

Aprox 7 years later believing gentiles (Acts 10: receive Christ's salvation sealing baptism of His Holy Spirit.

 

[Dan Perez]

At the 1st post resurrection Pentecost Peter receives the promised Holy Spirit.

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(NOTE: John the Baptist made clear that Christ would baptize with the Holy Spirit)

Eph 4:
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The PROMISE = Holy Spirit will be given

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send ""the promise"" of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high
(MY NOTE: Jesus teaches he will send "the promise" the Father made him)

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for "the promise" of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me
(MY NOTE: Jesus tells them to wait in Jerusalem for "the promise" of the Father)

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
(MY NOTE: Jesus foretells the giving/baptism/out pouring of the indwelling Holy Spirit to come)

PROMISE Fulfilled

Acts 2:
1 (A) when the day of Pentecost was fully come
(MY NOTE: When the day of Pentecost had fully come)

4 And they were all "filled with the Holy Spirit" and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance
(NOTE: Here it is "filled with the Holy Spirit" the new covenant begins right here. Christ's baptism with His salvation sealing indwelling Holy Spirit)

Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear
(MY NOTE: After Christ's glorification/resurrection. Christ sends the Promise given to Him from the Father = Holy Spirit)

New Covenant Spiritual Seal: Christ's baptism with the indwelling Holy Spirit

And you did quote Eph 4:5 where it says One Lord , One Faith and one BAPTIZO /BAPTISM and the Greek word BAPTISM is NOT in the Greek text .

Check Eph 4:5 and it says ONE HEIS , BAPTISMA and it is NOT WATER and that ONE BAPTISMA is the HOLY SPIRIT .

BAPTISMA is used 22 time from Matthew THROUGH Eph 4:5 .

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

Which part of this sermon, Peter actually addressed the Body of Christ?

You can see it was all Israel so far?

Hi Guojing and my computer was hacked and just got back on line and you are right on , brother .

dan p

 

[Guojing]

Here is an answer & my last reply to you in this thread. You are free to believe & promote whatever you choose. Others are free to read my replies & do the same.

Peter did preach the death & resurrection of Christ:

Acts 2: [paraphrasing]
22 YE MEN OF ISRAEL, Jesus was a man approved by, via miracles, sings & wonders

23 This same Jesus that you had crucified & killed:

24 This same Jesus, God raised from the dead

37 when the MEN of ISRAEL heard this, they asked Peter, what shall we do?
(MY NOTE: Vs 22 men of Israel (NO GENTILES HERE) Vs 23 this Jesus you killed, Vs 24 God raised Him from the dead.)

Do you notice that you have changed your point subtly?

First, you claimed that Peter preached "accepted/trusted in Jesus sin atoning death, & resurrection".

and now you have changed it to Peter "preach the death & resurrection of Christ"

Let me elaborate more on the difference between the 2

Do you believe there is a significant difference between preaching

1. Jesus died because you killed him. But God raise him from the dead because he is indeed the promised Son of God (Acts 2:36) VERSUS
2. Jesus died for your sins and rose again on the 3rd day as a sign that you are now justified before God (Romans 4:25)

Now, if you are willing to state clearly that you see no difference between these 2 messages, than I can understand why you believe Peter preached the same gospel to the Jews in Acts 2, as Paul preached to the Body of Christ

 

[ralliann]

Which part of this sermon, Peter actually addressed the Body of Christ?

Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

You can see it was all Israel so far?

It was the circumcision, but not all the circumcision. And Gentiles later became Fellow heirs and of the same body, partaking in the promise.