The Devil, wants abortion

[Gottservant]

Hi,

So just some personal testimony: I had a relationship where my partner drew me in, but as soon as they had had their desire, they turned on me and wanted to remove the possibility of a child - this confused me for a long time.

Then, just seeing the thread "how can christians justify abortion?" I thought about it, how it's possible to permit abortion, even if you can't ratify it and the Holy Spirit was able to point out to me, "there is someone that wants an abortion: the Devil!" This opened my eyes, to realise that I was in a spiritual battle, both with the Devil and with people who want to take easy advantage of the Law, not just to justify abortion in themselves, but to encourage it, in others.

I feel very sad, about it - but really I should be seeking wisdom and elevating the Lord, not to the point that I ask for permission to be done away with - there will always be cases where abortion seems justified enough (rape, incest, divorce) - but that I get to the point, where despite giving permission, I am encouraging people to think about nurturing a child and what abortion would really mean (it does not mean "you are in control"!). Also, I think it is something that, even as a special rule, needs especial prayer - Lord, hear it!

Thanks.

 

[childeye 2]

Hi,

So just some personal testimony: I had a relationship where my partner drew me in, but as soon as they had had their desire, they turned on me and wanted to remove the possibility of a child - this confused me for a long time.

Then, just seeing the thread "how can christians justify abortion?" I thought about it, how it's possible to permit abortion, even if you can't ratify it and the Holy Spirit was able to point out to me, "there is someone that wants an abortion: the Devil!" This opened my eyes, to realise that I was in a spiritual battle, both with the Devil and with people who want to take easy advantage of the Law, not just to justify abortion in themselves, but to encourage it, in others.

I feel very sad, about it - but really I should be seeking wisdom and elevating the Lord, not to the point that I ask for permission to be done away with - there will always be cases where abortion seems justified enough (rape, incest, divorce) - but that I get to the point, where despite giving permission, I am encouraging people to think about nurturing a child and what abortion would really mean (it does not mean "you are in control"!). Also, I think it is something that, even as a special rule, needs especial prayer - Lord, hear it!

Thanks.

I think it's fair to say that there are numerous fears and greater and lesser degrees of despair a woman faces when found with an unwanted pregnancy, depending upon the circumstances.

The perspective I hold is that I truly believe if a woman overcomes those fears and carries the baby to term, she will one day be very grateful that she never had the abortion. Accordingly, if she gets the abortion she will never know what she missed out on. I don't believe that making abortion illegal ever addresses the actual problem a woman deals with. The devil is not only the tempter but he is also the accuser in scripture. By this means he works both ends against the middle.

 

[Gottservant]

I appreciate your comments.

My thought was more that the Devil uses abortion as a wedge between man and woman - being two-faced about the fact a man may want a child, but it is the woman that has to agree, before the child is conceived. You can't abort something that isn't there, as much as the man might endure, ultimately he cannot make a woman do anything - so the woman, tempted by the Devil, hates the man, in ways he cannot understand (hence the forcing of permission, which neither of the partners truly in principle wants to be one sided - though it always is (the man suffers from abortion, more than the woman, because it is the man that yearns for the fruit of the woman's womb to be enough (the woman more or less takes it for granted, to begin with))).

You said "it never solves the actual problem" and you are right, the woman's confusion becomes perpetual, since the woman no longer has reckoning with her own desire - which has no alternative but to become rampant, short of her confession (that it is of the Devil, not God). I guess that is where I am stopped short, of going further: I can only hope my partner wants to confess. The Devil will accuse, you are right about that; I think if the Devil were able to make it stick (the abortion), I would not be here now, pointing out his sin!

It's not that the Devil, wants abortion for himself - I think the motive there, is more to separate man from woman, so that his desire for the woman is unchecked. If the Devil can keep someone in doubt, or confusion, it is not long before they are blown about, in every direction and can no longer serve God. The less we serve God, the less the Devil has to wrestle with being an accuser - he can simply provoke God, to be more complacent, about His good will towards man (if man is in doubt and confusion, it is not long before the works of God seem distant and undoable, and he is blown about - a prime opportunity for the Devil to plunder!)

I guess at some point we have to get angry, at the Devil - and pray those especial prayers, that speak love to those who are tempted: if we believe abortion can be permitted, surely we realise that extra care must be taken to prevent as many as possible, from being tempted by it!

 

[Gottservant]

[...] By this means he (the Devil) works both ends against the middle.

I just had this thought, too: what abortion evidences, is that the Devil is scared of the child - in principle, the faith of the child.

 

[Xenophon]

Yeah... I mean, check this article out - it just oozes with evil in it's implications - the devil himself could have written it;

Fears coronavirus lockdown could reverse trends and drive a teen pregnancy boom in Japan

Very creepy.

 

[childeye 2]

I appreciate your comments.

My thought was more that the Devil uses abortion as a wedge between man and woman - being two-faced about the fact a man may want a child, but it is the woman that has to agree, before the child is conceived. You can't abort something that isn't there, as much as the man might endure, ultimately he cannot make a woman do anything - so the woman, tempted by the Devil, hates the man, in ways he cannot understand (hence the forcing of permission, which neither of the partners truly in principle wants to be one sided - though it always is (the man suffers from abortion, more than the woman, because it is the man that yearns for the fruit of the woman's womb to be enough (the woman more or less takes it for granted, to begin with))).

You said "it never solves the actual problem" and you are right, the woman's confusion becomes perpetual, since the woman no longer has reckoning with her own desire - which has no alternative but to become rampant, short of her confession (that it is of the Devil, not God). I guess that is where I am stopped short, of going further: I can only hope my partner wants to confess. The Devil will accuse, you are right about that; I think if the Devil were able to make it stick (the abortion), I would not be here now, pointing out his sin!

It's not that the Devil, wants abortion for himself - I think the motive there, is more to separate man from woman, so that his desire for the woman is unchecked. If the Devil can keep someone in doubt, or confusion, it is not long before they are blown about, in every direction and can no longer serve God. The less we serve God, the less the Devil has to wrestle with being an accuser - he can simply provoke God, to be more complacent, about His good will towards man (if man is in doubt and confusion, it is not long before the works of God seem distant and undoable, and he is blown about - a prime opportunity for the Devil to plunder!)

I guess at some point we have to get angry, at the Devil - and pray those especial prayers, that speak love to those who are tempted: if we believe abortion can be permitted, surely we realise that extra care must be taken to prevent as many as possible, from being tempted by it!

I can't honestly say I am understanding your sentiments. It sounds like you want to have a child but are having trouble convincing your partner to commit to the proposition. Is that accurate?

 

[childeye 2]

I just had this thought, too: what abortion evidences, is that the Devil is scared of the child - in principle, the faith of the child.

I believe the devil seeks to undermine faith in general. I'm defining faith here as trusting in God. I'm defining God as the Creator of all things.

 

[Gottservant]

I can't honestly say I am understanding your sentiments. It sounds like you want to have a child but are having trouble convincing your partner to commit to the proposition. Is that accurate?

No, it is all past tense.

I did not object to their advances, but when they were finished in their estimation - they began to be troubled that it might lead to a pregnancy.

To my mind the problem was, they didn't know how to relate to the faith they had, in themselves: before it came to the point, where their mind was made up that they wanted it (if they hadn't wanted it, why would they have come to me?)

It's hypocrisy. They wanted to enjoy the responsibility of caring for a child, without trusting that the responsibility would bring its own requirement (of their body).

 

[Gottservant]

I believe the devil seeks to undermine faith in general. I'm defining faith here as trusting in God. I'm defining God as the Creator of all things.

I think you may be crediting the Devil with more intent, than he really has.

If the Devil accuses you before God and condemns you before the world, he is not seeking to undermine the faith - he is making himself out to be God.

That said, he will attack faith, if you evidence that you are not giving up, on the destruction of his works - because the destruction of his works will evidence that he does not have the power of God.

 

[childeye 2]

I think you may be crediting the Devil with more intent, than he really has.

I think the devil/Satan is where vanity first manifested. I don't actually accredit Lucifer for vanity. I believe vanity manifests in the creature by taking the providence and bestowed attributes of the Creator for granted. For example the desire to be worshipped as God would be the vanity that gradually forgets that one's beauty and wisdom all come from the Creator and was never earned nor deserved.

If the Devil accuses you before God and condemns you before the world, he is not seeking to undermine the faith - he is making himself out to be God.

The lie exists only to undermine the Truth. The ultimate Truth that it seeks to undermine is that the Eternal Spirit that is God is Holy and trustworthy. But for the temporal and corruptible creature, that is a matter of faith since it can never be proven nor disproven as to being Eternal and therefore Holy and trustworthy.

Lucifer was a guardian Cherub. The only motive I can see for tempting/testing someone, and accusing the person who gave in to the temptation, is to call into question the faithfulness of the person from the get go. It's therefore a projection of the devils own lack of faith onto the other creature. This is portrayed well in the story of Job where he proposes that Job only worshipped God because God blessed Job in his life. It's quite likely that Satan was not content in his station under God, and he resented that Adam and Eve were content even though they were lower in station than himself.

That said, he will attack faith, if you evidence that you are not giving up, on the destruction of his works - because the destruction of his works will evidence that he does not have the power of God.

The devil's works in the end will only accomplish what God has ordained from the beginning; To learn how to value what was given us as virtue, but was taken for granted in un-thankfulness, by losing it and experiencing what we become without it. All things work to good for those who Love God.

 

[SkyWriting]

Hi,

So just some personal testimony: I had a relationship where my partner drew me in, but as soon as they had had their desire, they turned on me and wanted to remove the possibility of a child - this confused me for a long time.

Then, just seeing the thread "how can christians justify abortion?" I thought about it, how it's possible to permit abortion, even if you can't ratify it and the Holy Spirit was able to point out to me, "there is someone that wants an abortion: the Devil!" This opened my eyes, to realise that I was in a spiritual battle, both with the Devil and with people who want to take easy advantage of the Law, not just to justify abortion in themselves, but to encourage it, in others.

I feel very sad, about it - but really I should be seeking wisdom and elevating the Lord, not to the point that I ask for permission to be done away with - there will always be cases where abortion seems justified enough (rape, incest, divorce) - but that I get to the point, where despite giving permission, I am encouraging people to think about nurturing a child and what abortion would really mean (it does not mean "you are in control"!). Also, I think it is something that, even as a special rule, needs especial prayer - Lord, hear it!

Thanks.

Well no. The Devil likes people to suffer. Aborted children have almost no time to suffer, or to influence others and corrupt them. So the Devil is not fond of abortions. Jesus suggested that children go straight to God when they die. Unless you feel aborted babies go straight to hell, then your point would be valid.

 

[Gottservant]

[...] It's therefore a projection of the devils own lack of faith onto the other creature. [...]

This, I thought, was particularly perceptive: you really got to the heart of the matter here (its the Devil's achilles heel, if you will)

 

[SPF]

Well no. The Devil likes people to suffer. Aborted children have almost no time to suffer, or to influence others and corrupt them. So the Devil is not fond of abortions. Jesus suggested that children go straight to God when they die. Unless you feel aborted babies go straight to hell, then your point would be valid.

Except often times the women who have abortions end up emotionally suffering themselves afterwards. Sin never affects just us, it has a rippling effect. Therefore, his point is valid.

 

[SkyWriting]

Except often times the women who have abortions end up emotionally suffering themselves afterwards. Sin never affects just us, it has a rippling effect. Therefore, his point is valid.

Hmmm Sin-Ripples. I'll watch for those closer.