The Devil has been shut out of Heaven; the End is in sight

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So just to fill in the gaps, Revelation says that a war broke out in Heaven (between the Devil and the Lord's angels) - this war, spiritually ended with the Devil shut out of Heaven.

There is reason to believe that the Devil won't war again, until it is on Earth - where he will finally be buried.

All prophecies are for a time, times and time and a half, in principle - so it is important to watch where one interpretation closes, that another may come.

The Devil being shut out of Heaven is just one event, the anti-Christ will still blaspheme those who are safe in Heaven.

The point being that if you were in Heaven, you are now safe - for if the Devil cannot harm you, what else can?

We must be wise, not to squander our new found freedom (and praise the Lord).

 

[ewq1938]

There's no way to know if the Rev 12 war in heaven has happened or not.

 

[sovereigngrace]

There's no way to know if the Rev 12 war in heaven has happened or not.

Yes there is! Before being cast out of heaven through Christ’s victorious assault on his kingdom, the devil had access to both heaven and earth. He had the ability to come before God to accuse the brethren of their sins. When he was cast down he no longer had access to heaven but only to earth. Previous to Satan's eviction, God was Israel's God, not the Gentiles God. Satan ruled the nations. But through this casting out of Satan, after man's penalty had been paid in full, he no longer had anything to accuse the elect over.

Satan's defeat came after the resurrection. Here is when he got his eviction notice, and here is "when" salvation came to the "whole world" - not just one nation Israel. The deception enveloping the Gentiles was lifted - praise God. They are now without excuse, just like those in the OT that rejected salvation. Salvation has now come to the nations. But Satan had to first be cast down. He had to be defeated. Christ’s life, death and resurrection safely secured that. As a result the Church becomes a militant overcoming organism.

Christ predicted shortly before He destroyed the power of Satan at the cross, in John 12:30-33: “Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”

This passage plainly shows the powerful result of Calvary and the deep impact it had upon Satan. It shows us that Satan is now under Christ’s feet and is now subject to His Sovereign will. Satan and his minions are barred from heaven. They have been banished after they were defeated 2,000 years ago.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes there is! Before being cast out of heaven through Christ’s victorious assault on his kingdom, the devil had access to both heaven and earth.

Again, there is no way to know if Satan has been cast out of heaven yet. There is no Earthly sign to look for except when he goes to start the GT against Christians in the last verse of Rev 12.

Christ predicted shortly before He destroyed the power of Satan at the cross, in John 12:30-33: “Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”

Clearly this is Satan being cast out of the world he ruled. The war in heaven in Rev 12 occurs LONG after the ascension of Christ so Christ isn't speaking of Satan being cast out of heaven because it's way too early for that event.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Again, there is no way to know if Satan has been cast out of heaven yet. There is no Earthly sign to look for except when he goes to start the GT against Christians in the last verse of Rev 12.



Clearly this is Satan being cast out of the world he ruled. The war in heaven in Rev 12 occurs LONG after the ascension of Christ so Christ isn't speaking of Satan being cast out of heaven because it's way too early for that event.

Not so! In John 12:31-33 Christ predicted, shortly before He defeated the power of Satan at the cross, “now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”

Here was the time of his casting down - after the cross. Here was the time of the unblinding of the nations (the Gentiles). Here Christ gloriously dethroned Satan from his previous, largely unchallenged, global earthly rule and his place of accusation in heaven. Satan’s movement, liberties and sway on earth and in heaven received a severe blow.

Revelation 12:5-11 says: "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Revelation 12:5-11 and Revelation 20 describe the overthrow of Satan after the resurrection. The casting of Satan and his minions out of heaven toward earth John 12:31-33 and Revelation 12:5-11 correlates with him being cast into the abyss (Jude 6, 2 Peter 2:4, Revelation 9 and Revelation 20). The abyss is a place of restraint.

 

[ewq1938]

Not so! In John 12:31-33 Christ predicted, shortly before He defeated the power of Satan at the cross, “now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”

Here was the time of his casting down - after the cross.

But Christ said NOW, and that was BEFORE the cross. In Rev 12 Satan is cast out LONG after Christ ascended into heaven so Christ is not talking about the events of Rev 12 in John 12.

 

[sovereigngrace]

But Christ said NOW, and that was BEFORE the cross. In Rev 12 Satan is cast out LONG after Christ ascended into heaven so Christ is not talking about the events of Rev 12 in John 12.

He was talking about the cross: “now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”

 

[fwGod]

The devil has been shut out of heaven since He rebelled against God and was booted out.

The devil since then built up an occupation in the heavenlies. It was there in Daniel's day, being spoken of (Dan.10:20) regarding the prince of Greece taking over from the prince of Persia. The apostle Paul also speaks (Eph.6:12) of "the principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness of this world and wicked spirits in heavenly places."

When Jesus said (Lk.10:18), "I saw satan fall like lightening from heaven." He was speaking prophetically of the event recorded in Revelation 12:9.

The book of Revelation is the detailed account of what Daniel was told of concerning "the one week". Daniel 9:27 "He will make a covenant with many for one week." (a.k.a.- the 70th week of Daniel)

Daniel 9:26 speaks of there being seventy weeks and sixty-two weeks [shabua]. The Hebrew word is a period of seven.

The math is 70 X 7 = 490 and 62 X 7 = 434.. To apply days to either number wouldn't make sense regarding the prophecy but years would make sense.

So the prophecy is indicating that weeks are sevens which refers to years, which means that "one week" is a prophetic seven years.

In the Revelation the seven year Tribulation is divided into two 3.5 years.

For the first 3.5 years "the prince (or ruler) who shall come" (Dan.9:26), will propose that covenant with many. This prince is not Jesus. He said (Jn.5:43) to the Jews, "I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him." Jesus is thus saying that they will accept "a false messiah".

That will make possible for the Jews to build their Tribulation Temple. This is a reminder of Biblical, historical Cyrus who arranged that the Jews have permission to build up their previously destroyed, damaged Temple.

And so, during the first half of the Tribulation the Jews offer sacrifices as they did in the OT. They do it because it is commanded by the instructions of Moses a way to atone for their sins.

At the mid-point of the seven years that prince or lawless one will (Dan.9:27) "cause the sacrifices to cease."

That does not refer to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross because after His ascension into heaven (Mk.16:19; Lk.24:51; Acts 1:9), the sacrifices continued to be offered up until (Lk.19:41-44) 70AD.

The only other way that the Bible speaks of that would cease the sacrifices is what Jesus said in Mat.24:15, "the abomination that causes desolation" because the Jews flee into the wilderness (Mk.13:14; Rev.12:6).

The apostle Paul also said in 2 Thes.2:4 that the lawless one would enter the Temple and take the seat and declare himself to be God.
This ironically is a similar repeat of what happened when Antiochus IV Epiphanes likewise desecrated the Temple.

From this it can be deduced that Dan.9:27 "the mid-week" is referring to the mid-point of the seven years Tribulation, at the end of the first 3.5 years and before the beginning of the second 3.5 years.

The war in the heavenlies (Rev.12:5-9) is when "the child" is being caught up to God. The phrase "caught up" is also found in 1 Thes.4:17.
So the war in heaven can only occur at the event of rapture. No such thing has happened yet.

Summary: Before the antichrist can go into the Temple and declare that he is God.. the Temple has to be built.. and before it can be built the antichrist has to be revealed (Rev.6:1) and then make a covenant with the many for one week.

It won't be until the midst of the one week (first 3.5 years) that the war in the heavenlies will happen, then satan and his demonic host will be kicked out of his place in the air and (Rev.12:8-9) be cast down to the earth.

So, it will be known that the end is in sight when he(the lawless prince) comes to make a covenant with many for one week.

 

[DavidPT]

The war in the heavenlies (Rev.12:5-9) is when "the child" is being caught up to God. The phrase "caught up" is also found in 1 Thes.4:17.
So the war in heaven can only occur at the event of rapture. No such thing has happened yet.

Does this indicate that you take this child in Revelation 12 to be referring to Pretribbers?

 

[sovereigngrace]

The devil has been shut out of heaven since He rebelled against God and was booted out.

The devil since then built up an occupation in the heavenlies. It was there in Daniel's day, being spoken of (Dan.10:20) regarding the prince of Greece taking over from the prince of Persia. The apostle Paul also speaks (Eph.6:12) of "the principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness of this world and wicked spirits in heavenly places."

When Jesus said (Lk.10:18), "I saw satan fall like lightening from heaven." He was speaking prophetically of the event recorded in Revelation 12:9.

The book of Revelation is the detailed account of what Daniel was told of concerning "the one week". Daniel 9:27 "He will make a covenant with many for one week." (a.k.a.- the 70th week of Daniel)

Daniel 9:26 speaks of there being seventy weeks and sixty-two weeks [shabua]. The Hebrew word is a period of seven.

The math is 70 X 7 = 490 and 62 X 7 = 434.. To apply days to either number wouldn't make sense regarding the prophecy but years would make sense.

So the prophecy is indicating that weeks are sevens which refers to years, which means that "one week" is a prophetic seven years.

In the Revelation the seven year Tribulation is divided into two 3.5 years.

For the first 3.5 years "the prince (or ruler) who shall come" (Dan.9:26), will propose that covenant with many. This prince is not Jesus. He said (Jn.5:43) to the Jews, "I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him." Jesus is thus saying that they will accept "a false messiah".

That will make possible for the Jews to build their Tribulation Temple. This is a reminder of Biblical, historical Cyrus who arranged that the Jews have permission to build up their previously destroyed, damaged Temple.

And so, during the first half of the Tribulation the Jews offer sacrifices as they did in the OT. They do it because it is commanded by the instructions of Moses a way to atone for their sins.

At the mid-point of the seven years that prince or lawless one will (Dan.9:27) "cause the sacrifices to cease."

That does not refer to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross because after His ascension into heaven (Mk.16:19; Lk.24:51; Acts 1:9), the sacrifices continued to be offered up until (Lk.19:41-44) 70AD.

The only other way that the Bible speaks of that would cease the sacrifices is what Jesus said in Mat.24:15, "the abomination that causes desolation" because the Jews flee into the wilderness (Mk.13:14; Rev.12:6).

The apostle Paul also said in 2 Thes.2:4 that the lawless one would enter the Temple and take the seat and declare himself to be God.
This ironically is a similar repeat of what happened when Antiochus IV Epiphanes likewise desecrated the Temple.

From this it can be deduced that Dan.9:27 "the mid-week" is referring to the mid-point of the seven years Tribulation, at the end of the first 3.5 years and before the beginning of the second 3.5 years.

The war in the heavenlies (Rev.12:5-9) is when "the child" is being caught up to God. The phrase "caught up" is also found in 1 Thes.4:17.
So the war in heaven can only occur at the event of rapture. No such thing has happened yet.

Summary: Before the antichrist can go into the Temple and declare that he is God.. the Temple has to be built.. and before it can be built the antichrist has to be revealed (Rev.6:1) and then make a covenant with the many for one week.

It won't be until the midst of the one week (first 3.5 years) that the war in the heavenlies will happen, then satan and his demonic host will be kicked out of his place in the air and (Rev.12:8-9) be cast down to the earth.

So, it will be known that the end is in sight when he(the lawless prince) comes to make a covenant with many for one week.

History shows that the 490 years were linear, congruent and sequential. Those of us that take 490 years to mean exactly that do not have to prove that it is harmonious; we just have to accept what it states. We take it literally (1) because it happened literally, (2) there is no command to decapitate it and project it into the unknown. Seven multiplied by seventy comes to 490 cohesive unitary years, not 2,500 broken up years and counting. There is no gap mentioned in the prophecy so there is no need or warrant to insert one in there.

 

[ewq1938]

He was talking about the cross: “now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”

The first part is not about the cross because he said NOW. Only the last part is about the cross. Satan was not cast out of heaven before the cross and not at the cross either. Rev 12 makes it clear is is cast out of heaven AFTER the ascension and we don't know how long after either.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

This is way after the cross.

 

[Marilyn C]

 

[Marilyn C]

 

[sovereigngrace]

The first part is not about the cross because he said NOW. Only the last part is about the cross. Satan was not cast out of heaven before the cross and not at the cross either. Rev 12 makes it clear is is cast out of heaven AFTER the ascension and we don't know how long after either.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

This is way after the cross.

Not so! You are fighting with Scripture.

 

[ewq1938]

Not so! You are fighting with Scripture.

That's weak response to solid scripture.

 

[fwGod]

Does this indicate that you take this child in Revelation 12 to be referring to Pretribbers?

I am quite aware that the term "pre-trib" does mean that the rapture event occurs prior to the Tribulation.

The text reference of Rev.12:5 indicates that "the child" went up into heaven (vs.6,14) at the mid-point of the Tribulation.

 

[ewq1938]

I am quite aware that the term "pre-trib" does mean that the rapture event occurs prior to the Tribulation.

The text reference of Rev.12:5 indicates that "the child" went up into heaven (vs.6,14) at the mid-point of the Tribulation.

The GT doesn't even begin in Rev 12...the last verse is Satan going to begin the GT. The man child is Christ and he ascended into heaven thousands of years before the GT even starts.


Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This war is the GT.

 

[fwGod]

The GT doesn't even begin in Rev 12...the last verse is Satan going to begin the GT.

The references I gave states that the Jews who go into the wilderness (Rev.12:6) are provided for by God for "for 1260 days" or 3.5 years.

That is the duration of the GT. In vs.15 the serpent attacked the protected woman. But the attack was thwarted (vs.16) when the ground opened up and swallowed the water that the serpent had poured out of his mouth.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This war is the GT.

Rather the GT has the war in it. But there are many other things that happen as well.

The man child is Christ and he ascended into heaven thousands of years before the GT even starts.

Then how is it that you have him being born into the world again in Rev.12:5, then ascending into heaven again?

 

[ewq1938]

The references I gave states that the Jews who go into the wilderness (Rev.12:6) are provided for by God for "for 1260 days" or 3.5 years.

That is the duration of the GT. In vs.15 the serpent attacked the protected woman. But the attack was thwarted (vs.16) when the ground opened up and swallowed the water that the serpent had poured out of his mouth.
Rather the GT has the war in it. But there are many other things that happen as well.
Then how is it that you have him being born into the world again in Rev.12:5, then ascending into heaven again?

Your error is adding the word "again" twice. He was born and ascended once not twice as in "again".

 

[fwGod]

Your error is adding the word "again" twice. He was born and ascended once not twice as in "again".

Your error is in thinking that I stated that Jesus would be born again. I was making the point that you were saying that he would be by stating that "the child" (Rev.12:5) is Christ.