The DeSantis COVID Surge in Florida grows...

The Barbarian

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After DeSantis stopped local governments from taking steps to protect their citizens in May, the inevitable has happened:
upload_2021-7-16_20-1-48.png

Florida COVID: 2,452,161 Cases and 38,395 Deaths - Worldometer
DeSantis Orders End Of Local COVID Mandates, Signs Bill That Includes Vaccine 'Passport' Ban
 
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JustSomeBloke

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Lockdown, 'taking steps', or whatever you want to call it, just delays the problem. It's a form of can-kicking. The only important thing is that the growth in the number of people who need medical attention does not overwhelm hospital resources.

Look at Australia and New Zealand. At one point their policy of total isolation from the rest of the world looked quite good. But now they're effectively trapped. Every time there's the tiniest breakout, huge numbers of people are forced into oppressive measures.
 
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ralliann

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After DeSantis stopped local governments from taking steps to protect their citizens in May, the inevitable has happened:
How many are illegal aliens in those reports? Do we even know that? Lots of people coming in from south America. One report said all the kids in those cages stuffed together were spreading it badly. These people are going all over the country. You think maybe some are bringing it in?
 
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The Barbarian

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Lockdown, 'taking steps', or whatever you want to call it, just delays the problem. It's a form of can-kicking. The only important thing is that the growth in the number of people who need medical attention does not overwhelm hospital resources.

I notice that states which did those steps are doing a lot better than Florida, which is seeing a large surge in new cases. When DeSantis prevented local governments from protecting their citizens, he guaranteed another surge in infections.

I don't know what he thought would happen.
 
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The Barbarian

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How many are illegal aliens in those reports? Do we even know that? Lots of people coming in from south America. One report said all the kids in those cages stuffed together were spreading it badly. These people are going all over the country. You think maybe some are bringing it in?

Mexico, for example, has an infection rate about 1/5 that of the United States. Costa Rica, about 0.75 times our rate. Guatemala has about 1/5 our rate. Honduras about 1/4 our rate. El Salvador, about 1/6. Belize, about 1/3.
COVID Live Update: 190,269,458 Cases and 4,091,477 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer

So not likely. He just messed up. Hopefully, he can get it together in time to restore things before it spirals out of control.
 
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ralliann

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Mexico, for example, has an infection rate about 1/5 that of the United States. Costa Rica, about 0.75 times our rate. Guatemala has about 1/5 our rate. Honduras about 1/4 our rate. El Salvador, about 1/6. Belize, about 1/3.
COVID Live Update: 190,269,458 Cases and 4,091,477 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer

So not likely. He just messed up. Hopefully, he can get it together in time to restore things before it spirals out of control.
Those people were not stuffed in cages, and make the trek. We don't know where all these people have been sent to. But there are alot we know came through, but how many that we don't know about.
 
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The Barbarian

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Your chart does not support your accusations.

You see that sudden increase in infections right after DeSantis forced local governments to stop protecting their citizens from COVID-19? You think that was just a coincidence?
upload_2021-7-17_8-9-52.png

Still shooting up as of today. Over seven times higher since DeSantis stopped efforts by local governments. The number of active cases, which had been dropping since February, is rising again. Deaths are going to lag a little behind the infections, but they are coming. And this time, the variant is hitting younger people. If you live in Florida, get vaccinated.
 

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miamited

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Look at Australia and New Zealand.

Yea, what a failed plan. Everyone can see how failed it was when they look at the total deaths/capita. Australia has just under half the population of Great Britain. Let's see...uh...well...gosh something must be wrong with these numbers. Australia shows 913 deaths and Great Britain shows 129k. Oh, that can't be right!!! Australia used such an oppressive system to limit exposure. Surely they lost a lot more people than Great Britain did that had that great...literally unparalleled 'plan' to limit deaths.

I wonder when the 'cans' going to stop rolling and we'll see all the hundreds of thousands of deaths in Australia that have just been kicked down the road.

(Authors note: I'm trying to write this as sarcastically as I can. I hope that comes across.)

God bless,
Ted
 
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Blade

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Sorry why single out "DeSantis" :) Sites that know all about this virus never blamed anyone. Not sure why other REP/DEM states are not talked about. From those sites that know about this virus thousands not hundreds but thousands that had the shot still died.

NY they say jumped 66%......

California in a 2 week period 171%.. so far seems Florida is much better huh.
 
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JustSomeBloke

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Yea, what a failed plan. Everyone can see how failed it was when they look at the total deaths/capita. Australia has just under half the population of Great Britain. Let's see...uh...well...gosh something must be wrong with these numbers. Australia shows 913 deaths and Great Britain shows 129k. Oh, that can't be right!!! Australia used such an oppressive system to limit exposure. Surely they lost a lot more people than Great Britain did that had that great...literally unparalleled 'plan' to limit deaths.
Maybe you are not aware, but right at the start of COVID, in order to increase the number of hospital beds available for COVID patients, the UK government had a policy of discharging elderly patients from hospitals into care homes. The trouble with that policy is that those discharged from hospitals were not first tested for COVID, to make sure that they would not be carrying COVID from hospitals to care homes. The lack of testing before sending patients to care homes was, and remains, a huge scandal, and arguably some people from government should be put on trial for their negligence. Why am I telling you this? Because that policy probably played a major role in accelerating the UK death rate. And as the average age of a COVID fatality in the UK is about 82.4 years, we know that many of those who died would have been care home residents.

I wonder when the 'cans' going to stop rolling and we'll see all the hundreds of thousands of deaths in Australia that have just been kicked down the road.
Neither of us knows for sure. But there's one thing we do know for certain. Lockdown and oppressive measures don't decrease the number of people who are vulnerable to COVID. After you try and reopen society, they're all still there, waiting to be infected. 'Aha!', you say, 'but now we have vaccines!'. Well, there's a problem with that argument too, the vaccines don't seem to work as well as initially claimed.

Ultimately, COVID deaths will end when the virus runs out of vulnerable people. That could happen for different reasons:
1. all the vulnerable people have already died of COVID
2. the vaccines reduce the number of vulnerable people
3. the virus mutates until it becomes highly infectious, but relatively harmless

If the vaccines aren't very effective, and the dominant COVID variants continue to remain deadly to vulnerable people, then Australia and New Zealand could end up playing whack-a-mole with the COVID virus for years, until all the vulnerable have died, or the virus has mutated to become infectious but harmless.

If all this seems a little complicated for you, I'll make it simpler by saying, it's too early to declare the Australian and New Zealand policies of international isolation a success.
 
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miamited

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Maybe you are not aware, but right at the start of COVID, in order to increase the number of hospital beds available for COVID patients, the UK government had a policy of discharging elderly patients from hospitals into care homes. The trouble with that policy is that those discharged from hospitals were not first tested for COVID, to make sure that they would not be carrying COVID from hospitals to care homes. The lack of testing before sending patients to care homes was, and remains, a huge scandal, and arguably some people from government should be put on trial for their negligence. Why am I telling you this? Because that policy probably played a major role in accelerating the UK death rate. And as the average age of a COVID fatality in the UK is about 82.4 years, we know that many of those who died would have been care home residents.

Ok, so 'probably', meaning this is likely just an educated guess, there were what? 128k deaths due to old people being released from hospital to care homes. Look, I don't care what or how the issue was handled that made things worse. It just isn't fair to say that Australia used such draconian measures, but saved thousands and thousands of lives, but they didn't handle it right. The plain numbers speak to the results of the different nations and their response to the crisis. Some did better than others in keeping the death count down and most of those did so by completely locking down person to person relationships. In many Asian nations, wearing masks has become pretty much accepted as how lives are lived day to day. Not Just Coronavirus: Asians Have Worn Face Masks for Decades

As relates to this subject, Governor DiSantis has been fairly unwilling to take such steps as locking down commerce and tourism and the state of Florida has suffered somewhat worse than other states of our nation in covid deaths because of that. Cruise lines wanted to reopen the cruise industry but wanted, for the protection of all passengers and crew, that all cruise passengers show proof of vaccination. To me, a certainly reasonable request in light of the nature of cruising. You have thousands of people trapped face to face in a big boat for days. The hallways are very narrow and the rooms are very small compared to most land based infrastructure. If a pathogen such as covid gets a foothold, as we saw repeatedly with the novovirus, there isn't anywhere for people to go to get free from the carriers. Just as you still see on airplanes that masks are still required even though there are a lot of unvaccinated people. Airlines know that people stuck in a small tube for several hours, not days, are at a greater risk of passing along pathogens. Gov. DiSantis passed a law that made it illegal for a business to add such protective measures. My thoughts???? Stupid!!!

But look, you're free to pass off the increase in U.K. deaths in whatever manner fits with your worldview of things.

Neither of us knows for sure. But there's one thing we do know for certain. Lockdown and oppressive measures don't decrease the number of people who are vulnerable to COVID. After you try and reopen society, they're all still there, waiting to be infected. 'Aha!', you say, 'but now we have vaccines!'. Well, there's a problem with that argument too, the vaccines don't seem to work as well as initially claimed.

Well, I don't know what it's like in the U.K., but over here on the other side of the big pond, vaccines are proving to be very effective. In fact, most research is allowing the vaccinated to walk around every day living their normal lives without masks or distancing guidelines. Research on those who are now getting sick and dying is predominantly, and when I say predominantly I'm talking somewhere in the 95 percentile and above, those who decided, for whatever reason, that they weren't going to allow themselves to be vaccinated. Do they work as well as initially claimed? Absolutely! Despite your article that states that it doesn't seem to be 'as' effective against the delta variant, it is still powerfully effective. Remember, when making the claim that the vaccines aren't working as well as initially thought,....Duh, the delta variant wasn't one of those that it was tested against when those initial effectiveness claims were made. However, now that the delta variant is here, and the vaccines have been administered it is still proving to be powerfully effective:

The article you posted is all about the delta variant only. That wasn't what the initial vaccines, that began coming out about the new year were tested against.

1. all the vulnerable people have already died of COVID
2. the vaccines reduce the number of vulnerable people
3. the virus mutates until it becomes highly infectious, but relatively harmless

Yes, and of those three options 'vaccines reducing the number of vulnerable people' is still the best. In fact, even option number 1 is based on the disease running out of 'unvaccinated' and therefore less vulnerable targets. The problem with #1 is that a lot of people won't have to die, if they move over to the side of the less vulnerable by choice. For the covid to run out of targets naturally, could take decades. We would all have to get infected and then our bodies develop antibodies naturally. Unfortunately, as we have seen, a lot of people die in that process.

God bless,
Ted
 
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The Barbarian

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The surge in COVID-19 cases in Florida, begun after DeSantis stopped local governments from protecting their citizens, continues:

The COVID-19 pandemic is gaining steam in Florida, outpacing the rest of the country and threatening the care-free lifestyle that many people have adopted since the coronavirus brought life to a halt last year.

The number of COVID cases nearly doubled in Florida over the past week, and the state now is powering the rise in infections nationwide, with 1 in 5 cases coming from the Sunshine State.

A new White House report shows Florida — one of the earliest states to abandon COVID-19 precautions — leads the country with 21.4% of all new COVID cases as of July 14.

Just four states, including Florida, accounted for more than 40% of the nation’s new cases this past week. Officials fear vaccination gaps and the highly transmissible Delta variant will lead to even more cases in the near future.

On Friday, the Department of Health reported 45,604 new cases, almost double the number from only a week earlier, when health officials reported 23,697 new cases. That number was 48% higher than the week before.

Positivity — the share of tests that come back positive — also soared in the past week, to 11.5% from 7.8%. Both numbers indicate that the pandemic has raced out of control in Florida, scientists say.
New COVID cases nearly double in Florida — the worst in the nation

It's not too late for him to reverse course and limit the damage. But he shows no sign of caring about it.

 
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HannahT

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It's not too late for him to reverse course and limit the damage. But he shows no sign of caring about it.

The article also says that this is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated. As far as I know no state is forcing it citizens to get the vaccinated. The Delta variant is also a huge part of it - article stated over 50% of cases.

Since, people refuse to get the shots? Not sure how any governor can control that. People should take personal responsibility for their own choices, and not taking the shots comes with risk.

No doubt there will be other states right behind Florida in the same boat. Thanks to the government and the media creating double messages about the vaccines, etc - I guess we could also say they don't care either. I realize that not your target, but its still there.
 
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The Barbarian

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he article also says that this is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated. As far as I know no state is forcing it citizens to get the vaccinated. The Delta variant is also a huge part of it - article stated over 50% of cases.

COLUMNS
Why do we debate what's obvious about Florida's unvaccinated?
Roger Brown
Sarasota Herald-Tribune

While there were many things I enjoyed about being a sports columnist, I'll admit there was one thing about it that would drive me nuts. And what was that

It was the amount of time I would find myself devoting energy to engaging in intense debates with sports fans over obvious stuff – or, to be more precise, over stuff that should have been obvious.

Well, I’m no longer a sports columnist. But, man, it really is déjà vu all over again.

In case you missed it:If the unvaccinated won't employ good sense, their employers should

More:More than 30,000 have failed to get second dose of COVID-19 vaccine in Sarasota County

Look, here is the obvious stuff:

•The highly contagious Delta variant of COVID is rampaging through Florida at such speed that our state alone is responsible for 20% of America’s new coronavirus cases.

• COVID infections are rising at such rates across Northeast Florida, Central Florida, South Florida and Southwest Florida that Florida is now being billed as “the epicenter” of the pandemic’s current surge.

That’s what is obvious. It’s obvious for all to see.

Yet we still need to debate whether employers in this state should be using every power at their disposal to require workers to become vaccinated – in order to reduce the hordes of Floridians who insist on remaining unvaccinated?
...
Yes, I’m aware of the hand-wringing argument that employers can’t do much because of the effort by Gov. Ron DeSantis and state lawmakers to block companies from proactively requiring employees to get vaccine shots – or to provide proof they’re vaccinated.
Roger Brown: Why are we debating what's obvious about Florida's unvaccinated?


No doubt there will be other states right behind Florida in the same boat.

Missouri, for example, for the same reason. A weak, politically-ambitious governor, afraid to offend the far-right by protecting his citizens.
 
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The Barbarian

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HannahT

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Missouri, for example, for the same reason. A weak, politically-ambitious governor, afraid to offend the far-right by protecting his citizens.

(Shrugs) I think the political atmosphere during this whole things plays a huge role in this. I realize that isn't your target, but its there too.

There were many in the political realm in the early days casting doubt on the vaccines, and the media lapdogs hurried up and repeated - and validated them. Then you had theories of the source of the virus (most common one as of this moment - but there are others), and claims of how the lab leak was debunked...and then it wasn't. Yet, it didn't stop people from getting kicked off social media for discussing it. lol today they want to monitor 'misinformation', but they have put forth loads themselves and refuse to admit that. Agencies like the CDC said once you get past your 2 weeks after you last shot you don't have to wear a mask, and then Fauci comes out doubled masked. 'Science based' agencies say Schools should be opened, and then the political groups said NO its not safe. Vaccinated political figures - plenty of distance away from others - keep masked for the image.

There have been so many stupid - and WRONG steps - and YES that creates doubt. It is of our own making, and no one wants to admit that. I realize pointing fingers is easier, but the history of the flip flops, gaslighting, and contradictions are still there.

Vaccinations are available, and if people do NOT take advantage of them? That's on them. Plain and simple. You also can't say one day that the vaccine is dangerous (which Politian's and the media did)...and the months later demand it be mandatory and expect people just to trust you. They are to full of themselves if they think that are that special. Some people can see through the BS that was thrown around claiming they had the facts, and then got the vaccine. Then you have those that wonder what to believe, because of the constant shove of 'science' and 'facts' that were not. That's on those that claimed they knew it all, and they didn't.
 
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The Barbarian

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accinations are available, and if people do NOT take advantage of them? That's on them. Plain and simple.

Would be, if they weren't fueling the new surge of infections. And that puts everyone at risk as it will produce new variants that might evolve resistance to existing vaccines.

That's on those that claimed they knew it all, and they didn't.

Can you show me who actually said they "knew it all?" Show checkable quotes.
 
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HannahT

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Would be, if they weren't fueling the new surge of infections. And that puts everyone at risk as it will produce new variants that might evolve resistance to existing vaccines.

As your article states - surge of infections among the unvaccinated. They didn't take the shot, and their risk was on them. Your last sentence has yet to be proven, but no doubt people have placed hypothesis out there for it.

Can you show me who actually said they "knew it all?" Show checkable quotes.

So, what you are saying is everything they have come up and stated as facts or science panned out to prove they were right?

You and I both know that isn't true.

lol if you want to go legalistic about my phase, and ignore the sentiment of what I said...that's your prerogative.

Nice attempt at deflection. Good job! lol
 
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