The depiction of God, and morals

[CrystalDragon]

That doesn't make Him not infinite. Only the Father has that knowledge.

If he's infinite though, wouldn't he know that by default?

 

[PropheticTimes]

If he's infinite though, wouldn't he know that by default?

No. He is only one part of the triune Godhead.

 

[Emli]

Hell can barely be.called good judgement.

It says love is patient, kind, does not boast, does not keep record of wrongs, etc. God commanded genocides (not kind), the book of Job has God technically "boast", and he keeps record of wrongs.

There is a difference between the way an eternal, omnipotent God may love, and how a limited human being may love. He protects us and takes revenge, so we won't have to. He boasts, because we need to know how small we are, so that we can enjoy life to the fullest without becoming conceited. He removed some tribes and nations from the Earth, because they weren't acting in love. (Killing newborn babies etc). He is the only one who knows everything, so He is the only one who is able to judge justly and fairly. I think you need to look at it from a bigger perspective.

 

[Emli]

It's far more simple than that to me. Love God; love each other! It needs no formal exegesis, just being how Jesus insisted we should be. And I do base my whole faith on this passage, unapologetically. If we cannot get even these basics right, what hope have we for the rest of scripture? What is the point of, say, morality, or righteousness, or justice, or kindness, or mercy, if we do do not love each other enough to apply it to each other?

Best wishes, Strivax

But this isn't even the basis of Scripture. It's the effect that God had on us, as He transforms our mind and puts His laws and Words in our hearts.

And you are not acting in love. You are judgemental, critical, you do not listen to others and you do not honor others before yourself. You also haven't surrendered yourself to God, so you do not love Him with all your heart, all of your strength, and all of your mind. You claim to, but you don't. One who loves God seeks His ways, always. You have no idea of what he desires of you. It's our faith and commitment to God that makes us righteous, not how well we "love" each other in our own ways, or follow one misused passage.

You seriously need to read the whole Bible.

 

[John Hyperspace]

I'm going to say something very controversial and then regret it later. Our human understanding of God depicts Him in such a light that He is worse than the most righteous humans. For example, most humans would never think to send a person to hell. Unless they got that from the Bible.

People acquire a world-view and they greatly fear having that world-view challenged. They will generally deny everything in order to hold to their world-view. The common Christian teaching of hell is abjectly unethical, yet they will invent all kinds of philosophies to justify their (mis)understanding of scripture, and cling to it at any cost: even if in the end they are blaspheming against God (blasphemy literally means 'to injure the reputation/name/fame' of someone, and teaching God to be creation's biggest monster is certainly injuring His holy name/fame/reputation).

If we seek to emulate God according to our own understanding, not necessarily what God actually is, do we limit our moral ability? If so, how can we stop ourselves from doing just that?

Perhaps lead them into acknowledgment of the error by extending the belief? For instance, if a person believes "holy justice" sends people to eternal torture chambers, ask Christians teaching this belief to put their money where their mouths are. Ask them if they are holy enough to pull the proverbial trigger, or, to pray for the holy honour of pulling the trigger themselves. That's to say, ask them to pray for the honor of being the ones who do the torturing for eternity. They generally are comfortable telling others that God will pull the trigger (thus passing the immoral act onto God to be themselves safe from criticism of immorality) but let's hear them start teaching others that, not only will others suffer forever, but that they will suffer at the hands of the teacher teaching the belief.

Ask Christians to start telling their children, "God is holy for torturing people forever, but children, we must also be holy as He is holy, and we must pray that He allow us the honour of proving our holiness by being the ones to torture others for all of time. When your friends won't believe you, tell them you are holy like Jesus and you will be the one who tortures them forever, with your own hands; for all of time, we will be beating them with scourges, and shouting 'you brought this upon yourself! and now we have pleasyre serving God and torturing you! We will flay the flesh from your friends and laugh forever as the cry and scream! For we are holy! And this is our holy love for you; that we nail fiery nails into your bodies forever!'"

But for some reason, I doubt hell-teaching Christians want to go that route. It would probably paint them as sick and twisted people for wanting to do such a thing. But, then again, they don't have any problem painting God as wanting to do such things. I guess they only like it when people think of God as what they teach Him to be, and don't want anyone thinking they are like God. It would probably injure their reputation.

 

[Emli]

If he's infinite though, wouldn't he know that by default?

He might have meant also that He didn't know it as a human. He had to empty Himself to come here. I don't think He had access to all of His knowledge.

 

[Left]

No. He is only one part of the triune Godhead.

My own belief may be a bit more of a paradox. I believe that there are three, yet there are one, and take it a step further to say that on the one hand, Jesus is God the father, on the other He isn't.

Imagine a three-headed person - they all have one body, but they are three separate people. Yet they're not. That is what I believe concerning the Trinity right now.

Sorry if this is still Unorthodox.

 

[RaymondG]

But this isn't even the basis of Scripture. It's the effect that God had on us, as He transforms our mind and puts His laws and Words in our hearts.

And you are not acting in love. You are judgemental, critical, you do not listen to others and you do not honor others before yourself. You also haven't surrendered yourself to God, so you do not love Him with all your heart, all of your strength, and all of your mind. You claim to, but you don't. One who loves God seeks His ways, always. You have no idea of what he desires of you. It's our faith and commitment to God that makes us righteous, not how well we "love" each other in our own ways, or follow one misused passage.

You seriously need to read the whole Bible.

Here we go again. You believe someone to have fallen in a pit, and instead of pulling him out, you fill it with water not even caring if he knows how to swim or not.....So you either get him out slowly, or kill him!.

How can anyone respect your views it you cant respect others? It seems as if you feel you are always right and you bask in the praise of posters that agree with you, and those that dont, are not saved and Salvation is in jeopardy. I hope, for your sake, that your path is the right one because if Jesus himself came preaching anything other than what you belief, you would tell Him he isnt saved and seen Him to the cross...just like the biblical experts did in the bible.

 

[Emli]

My own belief may be a bit more of a paradox. I believe that there are three, yet there are one, and take it a step further to say that on the one hand, Jesus is God the father, on the other He isn't.

Imagine a three-headed person - they all have one body, but they are three separate people. Yet they're not. That is what I believe concerning the Trinity right now.

Sorry if this is still Unorthodox.

You are perfectly orthodox.

 

[Strivax]

But this isn't even the basis of Scripture. It's the effect that God had on us, as He transforms our mind and puts His laws and Words in our hearts.

And you are not acting in love. You are judgemental, critical, you do not listen to others and you do not honor others before yourself. You also haven't surrendered yourself to God, so you do not love Him with all your heart, all of your strength, and all of your mind. You claim to, but you don't. One who loves God seeks His ways, always. You have no idea of what he desires of you. It's our faith and commitment to God that makes us righteous, not how well we "love" each other in our own ways, or follow one misused passage.

You seriously need to read the whole Bible.

And so I am not perfect, which I have freely admitted, but nevertheless do not judge you, only the arguments you put. Clearly, you are more perfect than me, because you can judge not only what I say, but also what I am, despite the attenuated nature of communication on the interweb thingy.

Well, I hope you are happy with your spiritual high ground. Because I would be seriously concerned I was missing something important, if I found myself there.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[PropheticTimes]

My own belief may be a bit more of a paradox. I believe that there are three, yet there are one, and take it a step further to say that on the one hand, Jesus is God the father, on the other he isn't.

Imagine a three-headed person - they all have one body, but they are three separate people. Yet they're not. That is what I believe concerning the Trinity right now.

Sorry if this is still Unorthodox.

You are a quick learner! I am truly amazed at how far you've come in such a short time. I do believe that God has an important role for you in this world, Theory. Keep learning!

 

[Emli]

Here we go again. You believe someone to have fallen in a pit, and instead of pulling him out, you fill it with water not even caring if he knows how to swim or not.....So you either get him out slowly, or kill him!.

How can anyone respect your views it you cant respect others? It seems as if you feel you are always right and you bask in the praise of posters that agree with you, and those that dont, are not saved and Salvation is in jeopardy. I hope, for your sake, that your path is the right one because if Jesus himself came preaching anything other than what you belief, you would tell Him he isnt saved and seen Him to the cross...just like the biblical experts did in the bible.

I'm not trying to be right here though. I'm only speaking what I know from Scripture. I know to a 100% that I'm on the right path. God confirms this often.

I'm trying to save this man, by leading Him to God, through teaching Him from Scripture. That is exactly what Jesus was doing.

If Jesus came preaching anything else (which He wouldn't according to Scripture), I would listen to Him. Everytime He corrects me, I listen and I allow Him to change me.

I don't really see how anything I'm doing right know is wrong.

 

[Left]

Here we go again. You believe someone to have fallen in a pit, and instead of pulling him out, you fill it with water not even caring if he knows how to swim or not.....So you either get him out slowly, or kill him!.

How can anyone respect your views it you cant respect others? It seems as if you feel you are always right and you bask in the praise of posters that agree with you, and those that dont, are not saved and Salvation is in jeopardy. I hope, for your sake, that your path is the right one because if Jesus himself came preaching anything other than what you belief, you would tell Him he isnt saved and seen Him to the cross...just like the biblical experts did in the bible.

I think you are wrong. There's always the chance I might have somehow mistakenly agreed with you at one point, but I have gotten to know Emli, she is not some bad person - and even if this whole forum turns against her, I will still be on her side.

*cracks knuckles and grabs Bible and philosophy book* What do you want to debate, Raymond?

 

[Emli]

And so I am not perfect, which I have freely admitted, but nevertheless do not judge you, only the arguments you put. Clearly, you are more perfect than me, because you can judge not only what I say, but also what I am, despite the attenuated nature of communication on the interweb thingy.

Well, I hope you are happy with your spiritual high ground. Because I would be seriously concerned I was missing something important, if I found myself there.

Best wishes, Strivax.

I have no spiritual high ground. I set myself below you, in order to teach you. A servant as Christ asked us to be. If I didn't love you and wished to serve you, I wouldn't even bother trying to set you straight.

 

[Emli]

You are a quick learner! I am truly amazed at how far you've come in such a short time. I do believe that God has an important role for you in this world, Theory. Keep learning!

I agree. I am so proud as well, even though I only started talking to him a few days ago.

 

[RaymondG]

I think you are wrong. There's always the chance I might have somehow mistakenly agreed with you at one point, but I have gotten to know Emli, she is not some bad person - and even if this whole forum turns against her, I will still be on her side.

*cracks knuckles and grabs Bible and philosophy book* What do you want to debate, Raymond?

Your opinion is respected. You are right to agree with emli and people that believe what you both believe. And you are forgiven for agreeing with any opinions I've had in the past. Good luck to you.

 

[RaymondG]

I'm not trying to be right here though. I'm only speaking what I know from Scripture. I know to a 100% that I'm on the right path. God confirms this often.

I'm trying to save this man, by leading Him to God, through teaching Him from Scripture. That is exactly what Jesus was doing.

If Jesus came preaching anything else (which He wouldn't according to Scripture), I would listen to Him. Everytime He corrects me, I listen and I allow Him to change me.

I don't really see how anything I'm doing right know is wrong.

Im not saying you are wrong and never have... But it does seem that you feel your interpretation of the bible is always the correct one. It is good that you feel 100% confident.......but can you understand that others feel the same way? any offense you may take for someone telling you that you are on the wrong path and that you arent Saved, they would take the same offense? Well maybe this is just a different kind of love than Im used to.

Continue as you were...

 

[Emli]

Im not saying you are wrong and never have... But it does seem that you feel your interpretation of the bible is always the correct one. It is good that you feel 100% confident.......but can you understand that others feel the same way? any offense you may take for someone telling you that you are on the wrong path and that you arent Saved, they would take the same offense? Well maybe this is just a different kind of love than Im used to.

Continue as you were...

Thank you. I appreciate the advice. And as I told you before, I love that you feel the need to protect people. Just make sure that you are on the right side, so you don't defend the wrong position and go against God.

The thing is though, this isn't my interpretation of the Bible. I don't interpret anything, nor does my subconscious. I read it, and I allow God to interpret it for me. It might sound strange to a modern person, but it really is exactly what the Bible tells us to do.

I also understand how one might react when being criticized. I've been there, but it all went away as I grew in Christ and surrendered my mind to Him.

One of the main points of the Bible, is that we are to crucify the flesh (including our egos), and not rely on our understanding.

Does this make sense to you? (I'm honestly asking)

 

[Left]

Im not saying you are wrong and never have... But it does seem that you feel your interpretation of the bible is always the correct one. It is good that you feel 100% confident.......but can you understand that others feel the same way? any offense you may take for someone telling you that you are on the wrong path and that you arent Saved, they would take the same offense? Well maybe this is just a different kind of love than Im used to.

Continue as you were...

Me and some of my philosophy friends may have to discuss some things with you . And we will reference Wikipedia and philosophy and bore you into the ground about how you yourself can't be so sure, in the realm of knowledge, that you can judge Emli.

Not trying to be mean. Just saying. I have been down the path that Strivax has, and it's scary.

 

[RaymondG]

Thank you. I appreciate the advice. And as I told you before, I love that you feel the need to protect people. Just make sure that you are on the right side, so you don't defend the wrong position and go against God.

The thing is though, this isn't my interpretation of the Bible. I don't interpret anything, nor does my subconscious. I read it, and I allow God to interpret it for me. It might sound strange to a modern person, but it really is exactly what the Bible tells us to do.

I also understand how one might react when being criticized. I've been there, but it all went away as I grew in Christ and surrendered my mind to Him.

One of the main points of the Bible, is that we are to crucify the flesh (including our egos), and not rely on our understanding.

Does this make sense to you? (I'm honestly asking)

Makes perfect sense. I've killed the old man, so you dont have to worry about offending him or hurting his feelings.
I, was pushed onto a spiritual path about a year or so ago....But before then, I was a pharisee and my doctrine was true and noone could tell me different.... I fell off that wall, like humpty, and and no man could put me back together again.....But God is not a man. I guess I saw some of my prior actions in your posts.....my main flaw was my own self-righteousness and perceived knowledge of the bible. God had to sit me down and ask me...."Now where were you when I laid the foundations of the world." Now I try to make my great testimony be my own life. I dont have to say a word or convince anyone of anything.....just let my light shine and God will be Glorified.. obviously you have to say words on forums though, but you get my drift. Im not in the business of condemning and changing beliefs....i give examples and let God deal with the heart.

But we obviously have different directions. And I appreciate your zeal for spread the truth.. And like I said, I havent stated, nor do I feel anything you have side was right or wrong.....just the delivery was questioned.

May God bless you on your journey to heaven.