The depiction of God, and morals

[Emli]

You're a good person.

None of us are good except for God. Luke 18:19 The word you need to use is righteous. Am I complicating things for you?

 

[Strivax]

God is referred to infinite as a way to demonstrate a type of 'limitlessness' to his power, goodness, etc.. (think omnipotence, omnibenevolence, etc..). To use 'infinite' to demonstrate some type of incomprehensibility I don't think is biblical. Do you have any source material for this?

In my opinion, we should understand knowing God as "inexhaustible" that is; there is always more to know about Him. It does not mean that we cannot understand him. That is just poor biblical reasoning.

Source material? No. Just the paradoxical observation that those who most convinced they are capable of understanding God are generally the farthest removed from doing so. The best we can do is to extrapolate. The philosopher's conception of an 'omnimax' God, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omniscient, ineffable, transcendent, totally perfect and completely free, etc, is, after all, purely extrapolation of the human condition, which lacks in all these respects. How far that extrapolation is justified is still a source of controversy. Nevertheless, the omnimax idea has sufficient credibility about it to persuade me that those who claim to know God's Will, or His purposes, or His plan, need really do a reality check between God's supposed nature and their own moral preferences.

ie., I believe X is wrong, because I believe God believes X is wrong, because I believe X is wrong, does not strike me as a completely sound argument against X.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Left]

None of us are good except for God. Luke 18:19 The word you need to use is righteous. Am I complicating things for you?

You keep me on my toes .

 

[Emli]

Source material? No. Just the paradoxical observation that those who think they are capable of understanding God are generally the farthest removed from doing so. The best we can do is to extrapolate, but we can never know, in this life, whether those extrapolations are entirely justified.

Best wishes, Strivax.

Except when God confirms it. Then we can know. Stop relying on your own mind, ask Him, and you'll see.

 

[Emli]

You keep me on my toes .

That's what I'm here for.

 

[Strivax]

Except when God confirms it. Then we can know. Stop relying on your own mind, ask Him, and you'll see.

No. I won't. My mind was given me by God, deliberately, and ultimately, so I could know Him. It was given me to reason with, to discuss with, and to debate with. And ultimately, after weighing all objective and subjective evidence, and all the logic and rationality of arguments put to it, to judge with. And I won't take it to a place where we can 'know' things because God has 'confirmed' them. Too many things are 'known' by humanity, and 'confirmed' by God, and are wholly immoral, for me to lend any credence to such a methodology at all. If that's your epistemology, you are welcome to it. Just don't expect me to follow you there.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Left]

No. I won't. My mind was given me by God, deliberately, and ultimately, so I could know Him. It was given me to reason with, to discuss with, and to debate with. And ultimately, after weighing all objective and subjective evidence, and all the logic and rationality of arguments put to it, to judge with. And I won't take it to a place where we can 'know' things because God has 'confirmed' them. If that's your epistemology, you are welcome to it. Just don't expect me to follow you there.

Best wishes, Strivax.

I liked this post because you made some good points. Just remember one can get lost in philosophy too. I was two days ago. I guess what I'm saying is, is that faith trumps critical thinking.

"Best wishes, TheoryofForms."

 

[david.d]

I'm going to say something very controversial and then regret it later. Our human understanding of God depicts Him in such a light that He is worse than the most righteous humans. For example, most humans would never think to send a person to hell. Unless they got that from the Bible.

If we seek to emulate God according to our own understanding, not necessarily what God actually is, do we limit our moral ability? If so, how can we stop ourselves from doing just that?

I believe if we are trying to emulate God, we are not being servants to God, but trying to put God into a box or even obtain our own holiness. We can never be an emulation of God, not even an angel (Satan) can truly emulate God. He tries to copy and deceive, but he can't be like God. We are to serve God according to His calling(s) and do as is His will. We are just a vapor.

 

[Strivax]

Just remember one can get lost in philosophy too. I was two days ago. I guess what I'm saying is, is that faith trumps critical thinking.

If one gets lost, it is because one is already lost. Whether that's in philosophy, theology, religion, or any other field of enquiry. My basic idea is that it is your ideals, not your foundations, that are your route to salvation, even though those ideals may change on your pilgrim journey through life.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Emli]

No. I won't. My mind was given me by God, deliberately, and ultimately, so I could know Him. It was given me to reason with, to discuss with, and to debate with. And ultimately, after weighing all objective and subjective evidence, and all the logic and rationality of arguments put to it, to judge with. And I won't take it to a place where we can 'know' things because God has 'confirmed' them. Too many things are 'known' by humanity, and 'confirmed' by God, and are wholly immoral, for me to lend any credence to such a methodology at all. If that's your epistemology, you are welcome to it. Just don't expect me to follow you there.

Best wishes, Strivax.

I'm not expecting you to go there, I'm only hoping that you will understand. It is an entirely Biblical viewpoint. One that God has led me to.
But He leads us all in different ways. I'm not sure if it's up to us, or to Him, how much we choose or are able to seek Him, but the Bible tells us that He has given each of us a measure of faith. We can only do so much with the gifts that He has given us.
As long as you are not relying on your own understanding and human knowledge, but on Him, and do not set yourself above Him in any way by going against His Word, then I will consider you on the right path. What that looks like, is entirely up to Him.

 

[Emli]

I believe if we are trying to emulate God, we are not being servants to God, but trying to put God into a box or even obtain our own holiness. We can never be an emulation of God, not even an angel (Satan) can truly emulate God. He tries to copy and deceive, but he can't be like God. We are to serve God according to His calling(s) and do as is His will. We are just a vapor.

I fully agree. We are told to emulate the image of God though, which is Christ, and His righteousness, but in Spirit and in Truth.

 

[Emli]

If one gets lost, it is because one is already lost. Whether that's in philosophy, theology, religion, or any other field of enquiry. My basic idea is that it is your ideals, not your foundations, that are your route to salvation, even though those ideals may change on your pilgrim journey through life.

Best wishes, Strivax.

Jesus is the way to salvation. Neither your ideals, nor your foundations, but your faith in Him.

 

[Strivax]

I believe if we are trying to emulate God, we are not being servants to God, but trying to put God into a box or even obtain our own holiness. We can never be an emulation of God, not even an angel (Satan) can truly emulate God. He tries to copy and deceive, but he can't be like God. We are to serve God according to His calling(s) and do as is His will. We are just a vapor.

Uh huh. Are you happy then, with the way you are? With the way the rest of humanity is? If you are, then good luck and bon voyage. If you aren't, I could not advocate a better role model than Jesus of Nazareth, known to us Christians as Christ.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Strivax]

Jesus is the way to salvation. Neither your ideals, nor your foundations, but your faith in Him.

And in the realisation of those ideals, the justification of your faith.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Emli]

Uh huh. Are you happy then, with the way you are? With the way the rest of humanity is? If you are, then good luck and bon voyage. If you aren't, I could not advocate a better role model than Jesus of Nazareth, known to us Christians as Christ.

Best wishes, Strivax.

Please read this as the loving advice as it is meant to be:
You seem to respond to all of us in a very critical way, not really responding to what we are saying, but instead just talking back. That isn't a good way to learn, and it isn't humble. You should listen to TheoryofForms' advice a few posts above. You should seek God more intently, and ask Him to increase your faith in Him.

 

[Strivax]

Please read this as the loving advice as it is meant to be:
You seem to respond to all of us in a very critical way, not really responding to what we are saying, but instead just talking back. That isn't a good way to learn, and it isn't humble. You should listen to TheoryofForms' advice a few posts above. You should seek God more intently, and ask Him to increase your faith in Him.

Yes, I agree. I am an arrogant son of female dog. And yes, I respond with criticism, where that criticism is deserved. I am here to learn, to be sure. But only from those who have something to teach that I do not know. Otherwise, I have something to teach, that others should know. Humility is a virtue when, and only when, one has something to be humble about. Otherwise, one should stand up straight, look the other in the eye, and say what one means, and mean what one says.

As for the strength of my faith, you truly have no idea.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Emli]

Yes, I agree. I am an arrogant son of female dog. And yes, I respond with criticism, where that criticism is deserved. I am here to learn, to be sure. But only from those who have something to teach that I do not know. Otherwise, I have something to teach, that others should know. Humility is a virtue when, and only when, one has something to be humble about. Otherwise, one should stand up straight, look the other in the eye, and say what one means, and mean what one says.

As for the strength of my faith, you truly have no idea.

Best wishes, Strivax.

Humility in the Biblical sense, is to bow before the Lord, and seek His ways always. None of us have anything to be humble about. What you are describing is false humility and self-righteousness. You should read all the passages about the Pharisees, and really think about them.

I can tell that you have very little faith, because you do not trust in God or His promises, as He tells us to trust in Him according to His Word.

You may criticise the Bible all you want, but that's not how you learn. You learn by believing in it.

 

[RascaLinFaith]

Which should be our ultimate foundation - God's revelation or our own minds?

 

[Emli]

Which should be our ultimate foundation - God's revelation or our own minds?

Enough said.

 

[Strivax]

I can tell that you have very little faith, because you do not trust in God or His promises, as He tells us to trust in Him according to His Word.

Counterintuitively, perhaps, I find the less I believe, the stronger my faith.

So, for example, the fact that I do not have to defend creationism against the scientific consensus in respect of evolution does not diminish my faith, just leaves it untarnished by the dubious tactics of the intelligent design contingent.

All one really needs to believe is that God exists, and is perfect, and that we all should try to our utmost to get as close to that perfection as possible. Jesus told us to do that by loving God, and loving each other. And all the rest is detail.

Best wishes, Strivax.