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The Deception of The Book of Enoch

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Big Mouth Nana

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foot in Mouth again.
Enoch is not dead, and is very much alive and well, and is dwelling in the City of God, which City he went to by the decree of God the Word, Jesus Christ, Himself, when seen in His pre-incarnate state of being.
He is dead to this world!!! Of course he is with God. Jesus isn't dead to this world. He is here in the body of believers. That is what I was referring to. Guess I better clarify next time.
By the way, you never responded to the "Noah" verse that I posted out of the bible. Are you disagreeing that this verse in Enoch states that this angel Lamech went to tell Noah of the coming flood, or are you going to believe the bibles account?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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He is dead to this world!!! Of course he is with God. Jesus isn't dead to this world. He is here in the body of believers. That is what I was referring to. Guess I better clarify next time.

By the way, you never responded to the "Noah" verse that I posted out of the bible. Are you disagreeing that this verse in Enoch states that this angel Lamech went to tell Noah of the coming flood, or are you going to believe the bibles account?
Hi BMN. Do you have the chapt and verse of Enoch for that? I wanna look at if myself.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Geesh, you don't even know what I believe. How could Adam create Adam? You are just attacking someone else defending your "blasphemous" beliefs. I don't push my beliefs in 2 creations down anyones throat on here, and haven't in all of the 5 years on this site. I only brought it up last week against the fallen angels fornicating with the women...which is impossible!!!!!
Nana, you err, again, with statements formed entirely of your own opinions and bereft of the Word of God.
Jude: NAB
6 The angels too, who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains, in gloom, for the judgment of the great day. 5 Likewise, Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding towns, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual promiscuity and practiced unnatural vice, 6 serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Spiritual Adam was formed from the dust of the ground The Adam where the Sons of God came from came from "created" Adam. I'm not ashamed to say that I believe in 2 human creations. At least I got it all from one book..the bible, and I'm not venerating anyone besides the Lord .
No amount of scripture that you post is going to change my mind !
You err, your belief makes three human being creations, and your belief is not to be found in the Word of God anywhere, so from whom did you get it, if not from your own imagination? -It is Mormon.


There are only two human being creations, the first is earthy, of the earth, made a living soul: the last is the Living Spirit come in flesh of second Man creation.

1Cr 15:45-47

Refuting the false doctrine which Nana spouted as her own opinions, but which are doctrines of Mormons, on the two creations, the first human being and the second:.
45 And so it is written The first human being/anthropos/man Adam was made/ginomi/caused to be a living soul; the last Adam/[anthropos, Man,Jesus Christ] eis/to the quickening/living spirit.

ginomia: prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen"-erate), i.e.
eis: a primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man/anthropos/human being [is] of the earth, earthy: the secondman/anthropos/human being [is] the Lord from heaven.[/quote]
 
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yeshuasavedme

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He is dead to this world!!! Of course he is with God. Jesus isn't dead to this world. He is here in the body of believers. That is what I was referring to. Guess I better clarify next time.
By the way, you never responded to the "Noah" verse that I posted out of the bible. Are you disagreeing that this verse in Enoch states that this angel Lamech went to tell Noah of the coming flood, or are you going to believe the bibles account?
Lamech was Noah's father. He was not an angel.

I think you are confused. There is a portion of Enoch which is a fragment written by Noah, and Noah's own words are in that fragment.
Noah was long instructed about the flood, from his birth, as his great grandfather had prophesied it, and Noah preached repentence to the sons of men with his grandfather Methusaleh for 120 years by God's command, before he was instructed to now build the ark, which he was five years in building before Methusaleh died and Noah wnd his family took in the clean and unclean animals and God closed the door.

I think you have a problem in what you want to be a contradiction in that the Word of God in the OT is written in the manner you are claiming is contradictory, in so many instances, for instance: Aaron delivered Israel from Egypt; Moses delivered Israel from Egypt; YHWH delivered Israel from Egypt.
YHWH sent Moses, Aaron spoke for Moses, and YHWH spoke through Aaron, to Pharaoh.

There are so many examples of men, angels, and YHWH working together and "doing" this or that, each one saying to do it, and all by the power and authority of YHWH, the Word, that I think you have never read the Word of God through, to not know such things.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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ginomia: prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen"-erate), i.e.
eis: a primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man/anthropos/human being [is] of the earth, earthy: the secondman/anthropos/human being [is] the Lord from heaven.
Ginomai is a word that is probably mistranslated more times in the NC than even AGE/WORLD: :)

Luke 21:28 Beginning yet to-be-becoming/ginesqai <1096> (5738) these-things, up-bend!, and lift up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the loosing/apo-lutrwsiV <629> of ye [Daniel 12/Reve 19,20]

Reve 16:17 and the seventh one pours out the bowl of him upon the air and came out Voice, great, out of the sanctuary from the throne saying :it-has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754).

Reve 21:6 And He said to me: "it-has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754).
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Hi BMN. Do you have the chapt and verse of Enoch for that? I wanna look at if myself.
There is no angel "Lamech" in the Book of 1 Enoch. Lamech is Noah's father.


[Chapter 9]
1 And then Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel looked down from heaven and saw much blood being 2 shed upon the earth, and all lawlessness being wrought upon the earth. And they said one to another: 'The earth made without inhabitant cries the voice of their cryingst up to the gates of heaven. 3 And now to you, the holy ones of heaven, the souls of men make their suit, saying, "Bring our cause 4 before the Most High."' And they said to the Lord of the ages: 'Lord of lords, God of gods, King of kings, and God of the ages, the throne of Thy glory (standeth) unto all the generations of the 5 ages, and Thy name holy and glorious and blessed unto all the ages! Thou hast made all things, and power over all things hast Thou: and all things are naked and open in Thy sight, and Thou seest all 6 things, and nothing can hide itself from Thee. Thou seest what Azazel hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and revealed the eternal secrets which were (preserved) in heaven, which 7 men were striving to learn: And Semjaza, to whom Thou hast given authority to bear rule over his associates. And they have gone to the daughters of men upon the earth, and have slept with the 9 women, and have defiled themselves, and revealed to them all kinds of sins. And the women have 10 borne giants, and the whole earth has thereby been filled with blood and unrighteousness. And now, behold, the souls of those who have died are crying and making their suit to the gates of heaven, and their lamentations have ascended: and cannot cease because of the lawless deeds which are 11 wrought on the earth. And Thou knowest all things before they come to pass, and Thou seest these things and Thou dost suffer them, and Thou dost not say to us what we are to do to them in regard to these.'
[Chapter 10]
1 Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spake, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, 2 and said to him: 'Go to Noah and tell him in my name "Hide thyself!" and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come 3 upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. And now instruct him that he may escape 4 and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.' And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening 5 in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may 6,7 not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the 8 Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted 9 through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin.' And to Gabriel said the Lord: 'Proceed against the bastards and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in 10 battle: for length of days shall they not have. And no request that they (i.e. their fathers) make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for they hope to live an eternal life, and 11 that each one of them will live five hundred years.' And the Lord said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjaza and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves 12 with them in all their uncleanness. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is 13 for ever and ever is consummated. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: and 14 to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all 15 generations. And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because 16 they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth' shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore.
17 And then shall all the righteous escape,
And shall live till they beget thousands of children,
And all the days of their youth and their old age
Shall they complete in peace.
18 And then shall the whole earth be tilled in righteousness, and shall all be planted with trees and 19 be full of blessing. And all desirable trees shall be planted on it, and they shall plant vines on it: and the vine which they plant thereon shall yield wine in abundance, and as for all the seed which is sown thereon each measure (of it) shall bear a thousand, and each measure of olives shall yield 20 ten presses of oil. And cleanse thou the earth from all oppression, and from all unrighteousness, and from all sin, and from all godlessness: and all the uncleanness that is wrought upon the earth 21 destroy from off the earth. And all the children of men shall become righteous, and all nations 22 shall offer adoration and shall praise Me, and all shall worship Me. And the earth shall be cleansed from all defilement, and from all sin, and from all punishment, and from all torment, and I will never again send (them) upon it from generation to generation and for ever.

[Chapter 11]
1 And in those days I will open the store chambers of blessing which are in the heaven, so as to send 2 them down upon the earth over the work and labour of the children of men. And truth and peace shall be associated together throughout all the days of the world and throughout all the generations of men.'
[Chapter 12]
1 Before these things Enoch was hidden, and no one of the children of men knew where he was 2 hidden, and where he abode, and what had become of him. And his activities had to do with the Watchers, and his days were with the holy ones. 3 And I Enoch was blessing the Lord of majesty and the King of the ages, and lo! the Watchers 4 called me -Enoch the scribe- and said to me: 'Enoch, thou scribe of righteousness, go, declare to the Watchers of the heaven who have left the high heaven, the holy eternal place, and have defiled themselves with women, and have done as the children of earth do, and have taken unto themselves 5 wives: "Ye have wrought great destruction on the earth: And ye shall have no peace nor forgiveness 6 of sin: and inasmuch as they delight themselves in their children, The murder of their beloved ones shall they see, and over the destruction of their children shall they lament, and shall make supplication unto eternity, but mercy and peace shall ye not attain."'
[Chapter 13]
1 And Enoch went and said: 'Azazel, thou shalt have no peace: a severe sentence has gone forth 2 against thee to put thee in bonds: And thou shalt not have toleration nor request granted to thee, because of the unrighteousness which thou hast taught, and because of all the works of godlessness 3 and unrighteousness and sin which thou hast shown to men.' Then I went and spoke to them all 4 together, and they were all afraid, and fear and trembling seized them. And they besought me to draw up a petition for them that they might find forgiveness, and to read their petition in the presence 5 of the Lord of heaven. For from thenceforward they could not speak (with Him) nor lift up their 6 eyes to heaven for shame of their sins for which they had been condemned. Then I wrote out their petition, and the prayer in regard to their spirits and their deeds individually and in regard to their 7 requests that they should have forgiveness and length. And I went off and sat down at the waters of Dan, in the land of Dan, to the south of the west of Hermon: I read their petition till I fell 8 asleep. And behold a dream came to me, and visions fell down upon me, and I saw visions of chastisement, and a voice came bidding (me) I to tell it to the sons of heaven, and reprimand them. 9 And when I awaked, I came unto them, and they were all sitting gathered together, weeping in 10 'Abelsjail, which is between Lebanon and Seneser, with their faces covered. And I recounted before them all the visions which I had seen in sleep, and I began to speak the words of righteousness, and to reprimand the heavenly Watchers.
[Chapter 14]
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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You err, your belief makes three human being creations, and your belief is not to be found in the Word of God anywhere, so from whom did you get it, if not from your own imagination? -It is Mormon.
Before you make comments about a religion that you know nothing of, you better read this link at the bottom. I did because I don't know what Mormons believe. No Where does it state that they believe in two creations, and I looked on various sites. Talk about foot in mouth!!!!

There are only two human being creations, the first is earthy, of the earth, made a living soul: the last is the Living Spirit come in flesh of second Man creation.
In Gen 1:27..created man...no putting them in a garden, told to eat of every tree..Gen 1:29..And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. (no breath of life, no tree of knowledge of good and evil mentioned, no garden of Eden, no forming of Eve from Adams rib..just created.)

Gen 2:7.. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (received God's Spirit)
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Gen 5:1-2..This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. (Eve wasn't called Adam)..two creations. The generations are different also, but I don't have time to go into that right now. Enoch came from the "created" Adam.
I'm not the only person that believes in two creations, so if you have never heard of this before..SURPRISE!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism#Basic_beliefs
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Gen 5:1-2..This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam,
I have Mormon family to excess, bigmouth, and your doctrine of Adam creating Adam is error to the point of blasphemy.

The male/ 'isyh and the female/ 'ishyah are called "Adam", by the creator, in Genesis 5:2. You are not only in error, you are teaching blasphemous doctrines.
and He made them, the Adam kind, one spirit/kind and male and female, because he sought godly seed. The male/'isyh called the 'ishyah's name "Eve".
Mal 2:15
And did not he make1 one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek18 a godly seed.
You have not got this blasphemous doctrine of two Adam creations with the first one being "spiritual" from the word of God. The Word declares that the first Adam was earthy, of the earth, and the last Adam (as the human being creation called by the Father) "Israel", was the Living Spirit from heaven come in flesh.

The second creation human being is YHWH come in flesh of second creation as the Kinsman/Redeemer to Adam.
His name is not called "Adam", by the Father, but as the second creation 'Isyh, He is called "Israel" by the Father, as Isaiah 49 states. Jesus Christ tells us by the prophet Isaiah that the Father called His name Israel, as the second 'Isyh of earth and brother to Adam.



Isa 49:1 Listen to Me, O islands, And pay attention, you peoples from afar. YHWH called Me from the womb; From the body of My mother He named Me. Isa 49:2 He has made My mouth like a sharp sword, In the shadow of His hand He has concealed Me; And He has also made Me a select arrow, He has hidden Me in His quiver. Isa 49:3 He said to Me, "You are My Servant, Israel, In Whom I will show My glory." Isa 49:4 But I said, "I have toiled in vain, I have spent My strength for nothing and vanity; Yet surely the justice {due} to Me is with YHWH, And My reward with My God." Isa 49:5 And now says YHWH, who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant, To bring Jacob back to Him, so that Israel might be gathered to Him (For I am honored in the sight of YHWH, And My God is My strength), Isa 49:6 He says, "It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant To raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also make You a light of the nations So that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth." Isa 49:7 Thus says the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel {and} its Holy One, To the despised One, To the One abhorred by the nation, To the Servant of rulers, "Kings will see and arise, Princes will also bow down, Because of YHWH who is faithful, the Holy One of Israel who has chosen You." Isa 49:8 Thus says YHWH, "In a favorable time I have answered You, And in a day of salvation I have helped You; And I will keep You and give You for a covenant of the people, To restore the land, to make {them} inherit the desolate heritages; Isa 49:9 Saying to those who are bound, 'Go forth,' To those who are in darkness, 'Show yourselves.' Along the roads they will feed, And their pasture {will be} on all bare heights.

Jacob got the name of the New/second creation human being Man, as a sign of the adoption to come.

Jer 14:9 Why shouldest thou be as a man astonied, as a mighty man [that] cannot save? yet thou, O LORD, [art] in the midst of us, and we are called by thy name; leave us not.

er 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.
1 Baruch NAB:
14 Hear, O LORD, our prayer of supplication, and deliver us for your own sake: grant us favor in the presence of our captors, 15 that the whole earth may know that you are the LORD, our God, and that Israel and his descendants bear your name. 16 O LORD, look down from your holy dwelling and take thought of us; turn, O LORD, your ear to hear us.
2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name [Israel], shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

the name of the second creation human being is "Israel", as to what YHWH calls His name, and He already gave it to Jacob as a sign of the adoption, and Jacob understood His name and made an altar to it and called the name of the altar "EL-ELOHE-ISRAEL =GOD-MIGHTYGOD-ISRAEL, As Genesis 32 and 33 teach us.

Pro 17:16 Wherefore [is there] a price in the hand of a fool to get wisdom, seeing [he hath] no heart [to it]?
 
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yeshuasavedme

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He is dead to this world!!! Of course he is with God.
Enoch is not dead to this world, either, for The Word does not say that anywhere, but the Hebrew author got from the book of Enoch that Enoch's body was not found -by those who searched when the LORD took him away; but a few hundred years later, Methusaleh goes to Mount Eden, where Enoch dwelt with the Watchers, and calls for Enoch to "Hear me, hear me, hear me", and Enoch comes to him from Eden's mount and tells him what he needed to know.

Elijah and Moses are not dead to this world, either, and were very much alive in their flesh bodies on the Mount of transfiguration, and were among those witnesses to Jesus who stood among the Disciples of Christ, when Jesus said there are "certain ones standing here who will not taste of death until they see the kingdom -of God- come with power".
Elijah has never tasted death, and though Moses did, he was resurrected as Lazarus was, in his own body and is with Elijah. Enoch said in His dream visions that Elijah was brought up to be with him, where he is. He did not name Elijah, but he saw him and his removal from the earth in the same manner he was removed; though Elijah was not translated as Enoch was and will taste death after he witnesses to Jerusalem for three and a half years with Moses, after the rapture of the Church and during the great tribulation.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Gen 5:1-2..This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their [male and female are both called one Adam as to the kind].
name Adam,
Mormonism is evolving continously, bigmouth, and you are teaching blasphemy, as I said.
Now, as to the beginning of Moses' writing in Genesis 5, Moses copied his genealogy of the generations of Adam from the Book of Jasher, which opens like this:

The Book of Jasher
This is the Book of the generations of Adam [man], whom God created upon the earth on the day when the LORD [YHWH] God [Elohym] made heaven and earth

Genesis 5:
This [is] the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created2 Adam, in the likeness of God made1 he him;

Male and female created1 he them; and blessed17 them, and called4 their name Adam, in the day when they were created.9
 
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SummaScriptura

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I never even bothered to look at this miserable book until now. I find it difficult to believe that any spiritual person could be deceived by such nonsense. If this book even existed at the time the early Christians agreed on the canon of scripture, it is easy to see why they did not include it.
After the Holy Scriptures had quoted Enoch, it would very easy to include similar passages in a new book. So the presence of these passages in this document in no way proves it is genuine.
When I began to examine this document, I first noticed that after its initial introduction, this supposed prophecy of Enoch begins with the words, "The Holy Great One will come forth from His dwelling, And the eternal God will tread upon the earth, (even) on Mount Sinai, And appear in the strength of His might from the heaven of heavens."
Much more can be said, including the usage of place names that did not exist at the time this book was supposedly written, but I do not consider this manifestly forged document to be worth the trouble.

This is expressly contrary to scripture which distinctly says,
"Zechariah 14 1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

A single direct contradiction with scripture settles the matter in my mind with great finality. This cannot be an inspired book because it contradicts what God said. But aside from that, as I read on I was struck by the "fairy tale" character of what I was reading. It in no way has the flavor and tenor of scripture. It is in my opinion nothing but a compilation of ancient Hebrew notions. And anyone who has read them knows that they are in some cases very fantastical.
Genesis 14:14 "When Abram heard that his kinsman had been taken captive, he led forth his trained men, born in his house, 318 of them, and went in pursuit as far as Dan."

Both Moses and Enoch have the same problem for which you are willing to cast Enoch in the flames.

Hebrew scribes apparently did not have qualms about updating place names in ancient books as they were preserved and copied over multiple generations. It was one way the geography of the original accounts would not be lost to time as place names changed.
 
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SummaScriptura

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<snip>After the Holy Scriptures had quoted Enoch, it would very easy to include similar passages in a new book. So the presence of these passages in this document in no way proves it is genuine.<snip>

Of the top five most represented (read: "most popular" at the rime of Christ) books recovered from the Dead Sea Scrolls, Enoch was number five. It was beaten out by Psalms, Isaiah, Deuteronomy and Jubilees (another "lost" book preserved in Ethiopic). Add to this the fact that leading scholarship on the DSS has the libraries hidden there, not the deposit of a extreme sect of ascetic Essenes (a theory popularized by a Dominican monk), but rather a cross-section of scrolls gathered from across Jerusalem and secreted in the 11 DSS caves during the 34 month window of opportunity afforded to the Jews between the sieges of Jerusalem first by Vespasian, then by Titus, and you have a more mainstream sampling of Jewish religious literature from the middle of the first century.

Science has been able to date the scrolls upon which The Book of Enoch was copied which were recovered from the caves. The materials of the scrolls were from the middle of the 2nd century B.C. So the Enoch scrolls we now have were about 200 years old when they were hidden in the caves during the Roman/Jewish war of the 1st century.

What was recovered?

I have the Dead Sea Scrolls Study Edition on CD-ROM from Logos software and referring to that I have put together a list below of what was found in the DSS. Please notice verse 1:9, the one quoted by Jude, was among the fragments that have survived.

By comparing the Ethiopic Enoch with the the recovered Aramaic documents, scholars have judged the Ethiopic version to be a faithful, formally equivalent translation of the book which circulated amongst the Jews when Jesus came.

This should put to rest the concern we might be dealing with a different book than the one quoted by Jude the brother of our Lord.

1:1-6
1:9-5:1
2:1-5:6
5:9-6:4
6:4-8:1
8:2-9:4,6-8
10:3-4
10:8-12
10:13-19
10:21-11:1
12:3
13:6-14:16
14:4-6
18:8-12
22:3-7
22:13-24:1
25:7-27:1
28:3-29:2
30:1-32:1
31:2-32:3
32:3-6
33:3-34:1
36:1-4
74:1-2
76:3-10
76:13-77:4
78:6-8
79:2-5
82:9-13
86:1-3
88:3-89:6
89:7-16
89:27-36
89:43-44
91:11-92:2
92:5-93:4
93:9-94:2
104:13-107:2
 
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SummaScriptura

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<snip>When I began to examine this document, I first noticed that after its initial introduction, this supposed prophecy of Enoch begins with the words, "The Holy Great One will come forth from His dwelling, And the eternal God will tread upon the earth, (even) on Mount Sinai, And appear in the strength of His might from the heaven of heavens."

Much more can be said, including the usage of place names that did not exist at the time this book was supposedly written, but I do not consider this manifestly forged document to be worth the trouble.

This is expressly contrary to scripture which distinctly says,

"Zechariah 14

1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

A single direct contradiction with scripture settles the matter in my mind with great finality. This cannot be an inspired book because it contradicts what God said. But aside from that, as I read on I was struck by the "fairy tale" character of what I was reading. It in no way has the flavor and tenor of scripture. It is in my opinion nothing but a compilation of ancient Hebrew notions. And anyone who has read them knows that they are in some cases very fantastical.
During the campaign of Armagedon there is more than one place upon which the Lord will set foot. Isaiah mentions Bozrah in modern-day Southern Jordan as well.

Isaiah 63:1-3

"Who is this who comes from Edom,
in crimsoned garments from Bozrah,
he who is splendid in his apparel,
marching in the greatness of his strength?
"It is I, speaking in righteousness,
mighty to save."
Why is your apparel red,
and your garments like his who treads in the winepress?
"I have trodden the winepress alone,
and from the peoples no one was with me;
I trod them in my anger
and trampled them in my wrath;
their lifeblood spattered on my garments,
and stained all my apparel."

In this passage the Lord at the 2nd coming arrives in the land from the direction of Bozrah in Edom.

The best of Bible students must admit to some difficulty working out the exact chronology of the final-final events. Its a somewhat harsh position to state in effect, this or that does not match my ideas of the endtimes, therefore its of the devil.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Mormonism is evolving continously, bigmouth, and you are teaching blasphemy, as I said.
Now, as to the beginning of Moses' writing in Genesis 5, Moses copied his genealogy of the generations of Adam from the Book of Jasher, which opens like this:
Oh of course, and here comes the book of Jasher :doh:I wouldn't be mentioning blasphemy if I were you. You are in real good standing along those lines yourself, quoting from books that contradict the bible, and putting these men of old in the fore front to God and Christ. God and His Word are One, and you are utilizing substitutes with it.
John 1:1..In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
I would like to know just how you see yourself in regards to the new covenant?
By the way, I don't care if Mormanisim evolves continuously. Doesn't affect me at all.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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There are so many examples of men, angels, and YHWH working together and "doing" this or that, each one saying to do it, and all by the power and authority of YHWH, the Word, that I think you have never read the Word of God through, to not know such things.
I've read the bible through, and read it daily. Enoch is mentioned in the bible, and his name is only recorded a few times. There are only two references to the book of Jasher in the bible. There are no angels listed by name except Gabriel and Michael, and angels have appeared to certain people that had NO NAMES...unlike your list of angel names in Enoch 1 that did this and did that. That tells me that we are not supposed to be reading these other books, and they aren't considered Gods word. They are fabricated ideas of man inspired by the Devil who knows scripture and has been here long enough to do just that. You are "adding to" Gods word by using these other books, as there are verses in Enoch 1 that aren't biblically correct. The writers intention (Satan) was to deceive, under the guise of trying to make them fit in with "future events". That is sad where people are concerned because he has won some. I can almost smell "sulfer" coming from the evil one, and see him jumping up and down with glee over his conquests that he has made.
The Word of God has an annointing on it because it is Holy Ghost inspired. While it is being read, it has a definite message, it flows, and a lot of passages line up and colaborate with other verses in the bible. The Book of Enoch has no such annointing, and is dry as an old piece of toast, and seems to go nowhere but ramble. It doesn't have a message of hope, the love of God, the way to salvation, or our future life with Christ. Just mentioning the Lord coming with ten thousands of his saints doesn't quite cut the gospel message nearly enough!! It was like it was thrown in as an after thought. To me what I read was mostly like reading a horror story by Stephen King. It didn't leave peace and hope..or ANYTHING, but total boredom with the rambling.
 
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SummaScriptura

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<snip>The Word of God has an annointing on it because it is Holy Ghost inspired. While it is being read, it has a definite message, it flows, and a lot of passages line up and colaborate with other verses in the bible. The Book of Enoch has no such annointing, and is dry as an old piece of toast, and seems to go nowhere but ramble. It doesn't have a message of hope, the love of God, the way to salvation, or our future life with Christ. Just mentioning the Lord coming with ten thousands of his saints doesn't quite cut the gospel message nearly enough!! It was like it was thrown in as an after thought. To me what I read was mostly like reading a horror story by Stephen King. It didn't leave peace and hope..or ANYTHING, but total boredom with the rambling.
Lemme guess, you still haven't read it have you? And no wonder, you don't even read the replies to your posts!
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Enoch is not dead to this world, either, for The Word does not say that anywhere, but the Hebrew author got from the book of Enoch that Enoch's body was not found -by those who searched when the LORD took him away; but a few hundred years later, Methusaleh goes to Mount Eden, where Enoch dwelt with the Watchers, and calls for Enoch to "Hear me, hear me, hear me", and Enoch comes to him from Eden's mount and tells him what he needed to know.
What I meant was, they aren't living here!!!!
Elijah and Moses are not dead to this world, either, and were very much alive in their flesh bodies on the Mount of transfiguration, and were among those witnesses to Jesus who stood among the Disciples of Christ, when Jesus said there are "certain ones standing here who will not taste of death until they see the kingdom -of God- come with power".
Elijah has never tasted death, and though Moses did, he was resurrected as Lazarus was, in his own body and is with Elijah. Enoch said in His dream visions that Elijah was brought up to be with him, where he is. He did not name Elijah, but he saw him and his removal from the earth in the same manner he was removed; though Elijah was not translated as Enoch was and will taste death after he witnesses to Jerusalem for three and a half years with Moses, after the rapture of the Church and during the great tribulation.
Oh, so you believe that Elijah and Moses were in their "fleshy" bodies when they tranfigured eh? That I don't believe. No fleshly body can transfigure. They probably could change like the angels that looked like men and not angels. When Elijah comes back to witness....that I do believe is him, he will be in the same type body.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Lemme guess, you still haven't read it have you? And no wonder, you don't even read the replies to your posts!
What are you talking about?? Read what, Enoch? Yes I have.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Genesis 14:14 "When Abram heard that his kinsman had been taken captive, he led forth his trained men, born in his house, 318 of them, and went in pursuit as far as Dan."

Both Moses and Enoch have the same problem for which you are willing to cast Enoch in the flames.

Hebrew scribes apparently did not have qualms about updating place names in ancient books as they were preserved and copied over multiple generations. It was one way the geography of the original accounts would not be lost to time as place names changed.
Actually, Dan means to judge, judge, and Dan is the land of the judges who descended on Mount Hermon =Mount Zion, pre-flood and post flood.
The Watchers were set as judges, rulers, and Enoch lists 200 of them who took an oath to rebel and take wives of daughters of Adam and get children through them.

Abraham chased the kings to Dan and into Lebanon, which lands were named pre-flood.
(Amraphel was Nimrod, as Jasher states, for in him they fell, as the Hebrew means of that name)
 
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