The Deception of The Book of Enoch

webbiest · Jul 30, 2008

HisdaughterJen said:
Little Lamb, surely you don't think I'm THAT stupid.

I find it fascinating that you always pop on to threads and post weird stuff having nothing to do with the topic and try to confuse and derail. Why is that? Are you unable to focus? Are you mentally disabled? Seriously, what's up with you?

I came to this Eschatology forum with the hope of getting something good from it...but you different posts about enoch disgusted me that i left..and returned again...but you are still at it

HisdaughterJen · Jul 30, 2008

webbiest said:
I came to this Eschatology forum with the hope of getting something good from it...but you different posts about enoch disgusted me that i left..and returned again...but you are still at it

Ha ha!

Take it up with God. Seriously...did you just want to pop in with an insult or do you actually want to say something of substance and discuss it?

yeshuasavedme · Jul 30, 2008

Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme

The land of Dan existed pre-flood, it means "judge", and Mount Hermon -"Mount Zion"- is where the "Watchers -judges" descended both before and after the flood.
Do a search on the judges as "rulers" over the earth -I haven't time, and you will find the connection to the land of Dan before the son of Jacob ever was given that name. Obviously, the commentator has no biblical literacy to make such statements.
Now if Big Mouth Nana would just go read the OT and learn what the things in it state about these issues, before she goes to see what skeptics who have no biblical literacy say, and before she wallows their errors wholesale, then she could get understanding on the subject at hand. But, as she has formed her opinions without understanding the matters herself, then I do not believe she will believe anything she has not written herself or copied from those who have also blocked their understanding by denial of the obvious.

Before Jacob ever had come to be, Dan was still the land of the "judges"; Gen 14:14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained [servants], born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued [them] unto Dan.
Dan is "to judge/ a judge", and the land where the Watchers/the judges/rulers descended, was Mount Hermon =Mount Zion, pre-flood, and post flood, and the land is the "land of Dan", "the land of the judges", and has no connection to the son of Jacob; rather, Jacob's son has a connection to the name, after the word existed and the land existed.

Deu 4:48 From Aroer, which [is] by the bank of the river Arnon, even unto mount Sion/Zion, which [is] Hermon,
Pre-flood, Eden seems to have been on, in, or at, Mount Hermon, as it is also called Mount Eden in one place. It is the highest point in Israel, and it is where Jesus took His Disciples, Peter, James, and John to, and was transfigured before them when Elijah and Moses appeared and spoke to Him about His upcoming death in Jerusalem.

Haran was the name of the son of Terah who was "killed because of Terah, his father, in Ur Kasdim", and yet Terah and his family settled in "HAran", a city already existing before they got there.
Shechem was the name of a Canaanite prince, who was born in the city of Shechem which was named before he ever was born, and so on and so forth, as to the names of people and places and their "unrelation" to them.

yeshuasavedme said:
On Mount Hermon, this Psalm line speaks of the blessing, everlasting life, conmmanded there. -harar is singular in this verse, for it is speaking of Mount Hermon, as Mount Zion, and nothing else.

Psa 133:3
As the dew of Hermon, [and as the dew] that descended upon the mountain of Zion [Hermon -is it Mount Eden?]: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, [even] life for evermore.

I noticed that Nana, Biblewriter, and Little Lamb do not respond to the biblical refutations I have made of their assumptions and opinions on the authority of 1 Enoch. I would like to see honest refutation to the fact that Mount Hermon is indeed called Mount Zion and that the land of Dan is there, and is the place of "the judges". The land of Dan existed pre-flood, and post flood, and Abraham chased the kings who plundered Sodom and the cities, and their armies to there, [and into Lebanon, and defeated them] pre-Jacob's birth.

yeshuasavedme · Jul 30, 2008

Big Mouth Nana said:
Yes, VERY easy to see why it wasn't included. I guess some people believe that just because they know tons of scripture that makes them "Spiritual"...NADA!! Satan knows scripture.

Nana, if you value your opinion and the 'spirit' of revelation that you claim to have which contradicts the written Word of God -the Scriptures- then you are on extremely dangerous ground. Whoever told you that there are contradictions to the OT or NT in the Book of 1 Enoch are bearing false witness, for there are no contradictions in 1 Enoch to the OT or NT; rather 1 Enoch gives the missing witness of God's creation and purpose for it, which the OT teachings and NT Gospel are based upon.

Jesus knew the Scriptures written by Enoch, and tells the Sadducees that they do err because they do not know the Scriptures, which Scriptures Jesus is referring to that they do not know are found only in the Book of 1 Enoch, and not in any other place.

Mat 22:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

This information, that the angels in heaven do not marry nor are given in marraige is from only the Book of 1 Enoch. So Jesus calls 1 Enoch "Scripture", and to not know the Scripture He refers to is "to err"; and 1 Enoch it was one of Jesus' favorite Books to read and expound the teachings from, for it is the Book which teaches about Him as the Hidden in God Son of Man, who was seen in heaven by Enoch, in whose image Adam is made and who made and upholds all things and who is given the sum of all judgment by the Father and who is the Only Person in YHWH whose face is ever seen by any created being.

Enoch saw the Son of Man in heaven, with God, and as God, who was to come, who was "hidden" until His revealing. Jesus refers to where Enoch saw Him , and only Enoch saw Him in heaven before, as "The Son of Man". Isaiah saw Him there as YHWH of hosts (Isaiah 6: John 12:37-41), but Isaiah did not see what Enoch saw Him as ; The Son of Man in heaven, with God, who was God, who was hidden in God"; and Enoch alone saw and reported that fact:

Jhn 6:62 [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

Because 1 Enoch is about the Son of Man who was declared by Enoch to be hidden in God and who was with God and was God, who was to come, make an end of sin and rise from the dead and regenerate the heavens and earth and deliver them back to the Father for His Glory to indwell; for that reason, the unbelieving Jewish rulers of the first century banned Enoch, but the Believing Jews and Believing Gentiles called it Scripture and oft quoted from it and expounded from it's teachings, as any serious seeker for truth can easily discover by searching, as good Bereans, and proving all things.

Big Mouth Nana · Jul 30, 2008

yeshuasavedme said:
Nana, if you value your opinion and the 'spirit' of revelation that you claim to have which contradicts the written Word of God -the Scriptures- then you are on extremely dangerous ground. Whoever told you that there are contradictions to the OT or NT in the Book of 1 Enoch are bearing false witness, for there are no contradictions in 1 Enoch to the OT or NT; rather 1 Enoch gives the missing witness of God's creation and purpose for it, which the OT teachings and NT Gospel are based upon.

Well thank you for your concern over me being on "shakey ground", but Terra Firma is firmly under my footing

. Uh, actually, no one told me that there were contradictions in Enoch 1. I read them the first day that Jen was talking about it on here, and then I read what a few sites on the internet said about it..THEN I got down to the nitty gritty and took a closer look myself.

Jesus knew the Scriptures written by Enoch, and tells the Sadducees that they do err because they do not know the Scriptures, which Scriptures Jesus is referring to that they do not know are found only in the Book of 1 Enoch, and not in any other place.

Like I said before, scripture from Gods Word could have very easily been taken and this book of Enoch created....I've leaned so heavily in that direction that I'm about to fall over, seeing as how The Book of Enoch contradicts the bible more then once. There are NO contradictions in the bible which makes it total TRUTH.

This information, that the angels in heaven do not marry nor are given in marraige is from only the Book of 1 Enoch. So Jesus calls 1 Enoch "Scripture", and to not know the Scripture He refers to is "to err"; and 1 Enoch it was one of Jesus' favorite Books to read and expound the teachings from, for it is the Book which teaches about Him as the Hidden in God Son of Man, who was seen in heaven by Enoch, in whose image Adam is made and who made and upholds all things and who is given the sum of all judgment by the Father and who is the Only Person in YHWH whose face is ever seen by any created being. Enoch saw the Son of Man in heaven, with God, and as God, who was to come, who was "hidden" until His revealing. Jesus refers to where Enoch saw Him , and only Enoch saw Him in heaven before, as "The Son of Man". Isaiah saw Him there as YHWH of hosts (Isaiah 6: John 12:37-41), but Isaiah did not see what Enoch saw Him as ; The Son of Man in heaven, with God, who was God, who was hidden in God"; and Enoch alone saw and reported that fact

Enoch saw Jesus in Heaven eh? John 1:15-18......
15) John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16) And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 )For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
No one knew Jesus was even the Lamb of God OR Son of God until John said this..John 1: 29 ~The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 30) This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. Enoch didn't see God or Jesus, so this is unquestionably a lie!! He couldn't see Jesus who was in the bosom of the Father. He would have had to have seen God, and scripture refutes that totally!!!

Because 1 Enoch is about the Son of Man who was declared by Enoch to be hidden in God and who was with God and was God, who was to come, make an end of sin and rise from the dead and regenerate the heavens and earth and deliver them back to the Father for His Glory to indwell; for that reason, the unbelieving Jewish rulers of the first century banned Enoch, but the Believing Jews and Believing Gentiles called it Scripture and oft quoted from it and expounded from it's teachings, as any serious seeker for truth can easily discover by searching, as good Bereans, and proving all things.

You forgot the all important part of that scripture that I hi-lighted above in verse 18. Pretty self explanatory. Another contradiction found in the Word of God against Enoch..and they keep coming!!

yeshuasavedme said:
Now if Big Mouth Nana would just go read the OT and learn what the things in it state about these issues, before she goes to see what skeptics who have no biblical literacy say, and before she wallows their errors wholesale, then she could get understanding on the subject at hand. But, as she has formed her opinions without understanding the matters herself, then I do not believe she will believe anything she has not written herself or copied from those who have also blocked their understanding by denial of the obvious.

Gee, I can't leave this remark out. I have and do read the OT. I love scripture in the OT. I just don't live in it like "some" do on here, or take books that aren't in our bibles as the Word of God. People seem to have forgotten that Jesus fulfilled the OT in Himself, and gave us a better way...Heb 8:6-7 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

yeshuasavedme · Jul 31, 2008

Big Mouth Nana said:
...

There are NO contradictions in the bible which makes it total TRUTH.

Enoch saw Jesus in Heaven eh? John 1:15-18......
18) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Enoch didn't see God or Jesus, so this is unquestionably a lie!! He couldn't see Jesus who was in the bosom of the Father. He would have had to have seen God, and scripture refutes that totally!!!

I wonder if you have even read the Word of God for yourself, even, as you make contradictions to it all the time. There are three Persons in YHWH.
YHWH is seen in the Person of the Word. YHWH is not seen in the Person of the Father. YHWH is present on earth in the Person of the Holy Spirit, but the Father is not present but in the Person of the Word, and the Word has come in flesh and was Seen as YHWH of hosts by Jacob, in Genesis 32, in the form of the angel of YHWH, as Hosea 12:3-5 declares. The Son of Man was seen hidden in God, with God, by Enoch, in heaven.

Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Exd 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and [there was] under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in [his] clearness.
Exd 24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

Isaiah 6 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw YHWH (whom John says was Jesus when Isaiah saw Him as YHWH of Hosts, im John 12:37-41), sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the temple. 2 Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one cried to another and said:

"Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts;
The whole earth is full of His glory!"

4 And the posts of the door were shaken by the voice of him who cried out, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 So I said:

"Woe is me, for I am undone!
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips;
For my eyes have seen the King,
The Lord of hosts."

Big MouthNana, you need to just go read the Bible through and through, before you spout off without understanding what is said in it and what the context is.

And the Book of 1 Enoch was complete and long known and read and used and believed, before Jesus Christ walked the earth in His flesh, and that is a fact that cannot be lied about by you, as it is record.
What Enoch saw and wrote of , Jesus quotes and expounds, and you have not got one contradiction to the OT or NT from Enoch, and yet, as far as contradictions go, you are simply ignorant of the fact that the OT has not a few contradictions in it, as the NT does, which the skeptics love to point out, but which do not change the doctrine of Christ. It is not the word that is "god", but Christ Jesus who is God, and He is the Living Word.
All the law and the prophets testify of Him, beginning with Enoch.

Big Mouth Nana · Jul 31, 2008

yeshuasavedme said:
I wonder if you have even read the Word of God for yourself, even, as you make contradictions to it all the time. There are three Persons in YHWH.

I wonder if you read Enoch, Jasher and all of your other books more then you do Gods Word? From what I have read from you in 3 years, you basically used to quote the OT, and now you are into Enoch, Jasher, and no telling what other books you study.

Isaiah 6 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw YHWH (whom John says was Jesus when Isaiah saw Him as YHWH of Hosts, im John 12:37-41), sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the temple. 2 Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one cried to another and said:

Isaiah 6:2 ~ Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly...So, sounds to me like the seraphim covered His face and feet.

Big MouthNana, you need to just go read the Bible through and through, before you spout off without understanding what is said in it and what the context is.

Oh, I have read the bible many times..and still do. What you don't understand is, no one saw Jesus before Jesus was born in heaven with God. God appeared in different forms to these men ON THE EARTH most certainly. That verse doesn't say that Jacob saw the face of God. It says that he named the place Peniel which means, for I have seen God face to face. Jacob didn't actually see Gods face, but God in an "earthly" form. No one has ever seen God face to face in His heavenly form and lived to talk about it. Moses and the children of Israel saw God in the form of a cloud on Mt Sinai. God went before the children of Israel in the desert by a cloud. This other verse in Exodus 24:10 that you posted says that he saw under His feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in [his] clearness. There is a comma after sapphire stone, so it is still describing what they saw under his feet...not His face. They saw smoke also, not his face.

And the Book of 1 Enoch was complete and long known and read and used and believed, before Jesus Christ walked the earth in His flesh, and that is a fact that cannot be lied about by you, as it is record.
What Enoch saw and wrote of , Jesus quotes and expounds, and you have not got one contradiction to the OT or NT from Enoch, and yet, as far as contradictions go, you are simply ignorant of the fact that the OT has not a few contradictions in it, as the NT does, which the skeptics love to point out, but which do not change the doctrine of Christ. It is not the word that is "god", but Christ Jesus who is God, and He is the Living Word.
All the law and the prophets testify of Him, beginning with Enoch.

Well, I personally don't care if you believe that I am ignorant regarding OT contradictions and NT contradictions. God doesn't make mistakes. His Word is complete, and you and others are perverting it helping Satan right along with his mission. He couldn't destroy Jesus, but he can mess with peoples heads to believe a lie on what is the truth!!
I don't have a problem with Enoch the prophet in the OT, or even Jesus quoting Enoch. The problem is, Enoch was a man like any other man. He wasn't in heaven seeing Jesus before Jesus was born because Enoch wasn't even born yet when Jesus was with God. He wouldn't recognize Jesus even if he had gone to heaven because no one has ever seen the face of God in His true form.
What you Enoch lovers are doing is venerating Enoch, and bad as that is, angels are being elevated also, and that is blasphemy. Nothing or no one comes before God and His Son Jesus Christ!! You are so deep seated in this, that I feel unless God does a miracle, you are a slave to it to the very end.
Gal 1:6-9 ~ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8) But though we, "or an angel from heaven", preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. This is a BIG warning here as Paul says it twice back to back!!!

HisdaughterJen · Jul 31, 2008

Big Mouth Nana said:
I wonder if you read Enoch, Jasher and all of your other books more then you do Gods Word? From what I have read from you in 3 years, you basically used to quote the OT, and now you are into Enoch, Jasher, and no telling what other books you study.

YOU are hilarious!

Enoch and Jasher are BOTH either quoted or cited in the Bible. Are you saying we should not study them?

Jos 10:13And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. [Is] not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

2Sa 1:18(Also he bade them teach the children of Judah [the use of] the bow: behold, [it is] written in the book of Jasher.)

Jud 1:14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones
Jud 1:15 to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

Well, I personally don't care if you believe that I am ignorant regarding OT contradictions and NT contradictions. God doesn't make mistakes. His Word is complete, and you and others are perverting it helping Satan right along with his mission.

Click to expand...

Nana, how many canons of scripture are there on the planet? There are at least five...and probably a lot more. Who "canonized" the scriptures? Was it God or man? MAN! So, why do you limit God and assign man's work (canonization) as the work of God?

He couldn't destroy Jesus, but he can mess with peoples heads to believe a lie on what is the truth!!
I don't have a problem with Enoch the prophet in the OT, or even Jesus quoting Enoch. The problem is, Enoch was a man like any other man. He wasn't in heaven seeing Jesus before Jesus was born because Enoch wasn't even born yet when Jesus was with God

Click to expand...

Jesus was never "born" in heaven (nor was He created). Jesus "came forth" from the Father.

Jhn 8:42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Jhn 16:28I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Jhn 1:1¶In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Click to expand...

yeshuasavedme · Jul 31, 2008

What a bunch of blabbering contradictoryto the Word of God senseless post you wrote, Big Mouth.

Enoch did not see the face of the Great Glory, He saw Him on His throne in Glory and He saw the Son of Man with Him, hidden, kept secret, until His revealing to the Elect.

You totally cannot comprehend what is even written in the Word, for the Seraphim covered their own faces, not the face of YHWH on the throne, and yes, the elders of Israel did see God, the Mighty God, Israel, pre-incarnation, and dined before Him, and they did not die, and Jacob saw God, YHWH of hosts (as Hosea 12:3-5 states) "face to face", and did not die. He then made a Memorial to Him and named it "EL-ELOHE-ISRAEL/God-<Mghty God-Israel, which shows He knew that He had seen God and that the secret name of the Son of Man who was to come, which name is "Israel", had been revealed to Him, and that He was elected as the son of Abraham, the Elect, to have that name revealed which the angels desired to know, which Enoch reported was kept secret, hidden in God, until His revealing it to the elect.

Gen 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Exd 24:11
And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.
From Enoch 14; Enoch's vision of the Great Glory:

And I looked and saw therein a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of 19 cherubim. And from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look 20 thereon. And the Great Glory sat thereon, and His raiment shone more brightly than the sun and 21 was whiter than any snow. None of the angels could enter and could behold His face by reason 22 of the magnificence and glory and no flesh could behold Him. The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times 23 ten thousand (stood) before Him, yet He needed no counselor. And the most holy ones who were 24 nigh to Him did not leave by night nor depart from Him. And until then I had been prostrate on my face, trembling: and the Lord called me with His own mouth, and said to me: ' Come hither, 25 Enoch, and hear my word.' And one of the holy ones came to me and waked me, and He made me rise up and approach the door: and I bowed my face downwards.

yeshuasavedme · Jul 31, 2008

Big Mouth Nana said:
There is a comma after sapphire stone,

God doesn't make mistakes. His Word is complete.

There are no commas in the Hebrew Sacred Scriptures as they were written in the original. PUH-LEASE! -stop opening your mouth and inserting your foot in it!

God does not make mistakes and the Word of God is not available to us in the original manuscripts, and yes, there are contradictions in the manuscripts and the translations of them which we have available, in the OT, and even the four Gospels have discrepencies between them of times, places, and numbers, which cause skeptics and enemies of God to gloat, but which do not change or alter the doctrine of Christ and of God's plan for our redemption in any manner, and no, the written word, itself, is not the god we worship, and if we did, you have fallen far short of even understanding that written Word.

It is you who want to pick a fight in your ignorance about the authority of 1 Enoch, and you have not showed one deception yet, but please do keep trying, for the more you try the more you show that you are bereft of any sense of understanding what the OT or NT are all about, themselves; and you have made blasphemous statements about the Person of Jesus Christ in your ignorance, claiming that He was creaated. Are you studying with the Watchtower? They do teach that doctrine of the creation of Jesus Christ.

Big Mouth Nana · Jul 31, 2008

yeshuasavedme said:
There are no commas in the Hebrew Sacred Scriptures as they were written in the original. PUH-LEASE! -stop opening your mouth and inserting your foot in it!

Oh sorry. I forgot that the Hebrew sacred scriptures are the ONLY truth. Funny, my bible was translated from the original Hebrew

God does not make mistakes and the Word of God is not available to us in the original manuscripts, and yes, there are contradictions in the manuscripts and the translations of them which we have available, in the OT, and even the four Gospels have discrepencies between them of times, places, and numbers, which cause skeptics and enemies of God to gloat, but which do not change or alter the doctrine of Christ and of God's plan for our redemption in any manner, and no, the written word, itself, is not the god we worship, and if we did, you have fallen far short of even understanding that written Word.

Boy, you have that right. God doesn't make mistakes. To bad that you can't see that as a reality. You would rather live in "Enoch land" with the "named" angels, and believe ALL of this "fantasy" garbage that Enoch 1 expells in abundance. Amazing that you have all of the answers from The Book of Enoch, and the rest of us Christians are in "La-La" land and don't have a clue about any of this. To be honest, I have learned more from Enoch1 then I wanted to know, but just enough to see the "dark side" of it.

It is you who want to pick a fight in your ignorance about the authority of 1 Enoch, and you have not showed one deception yet, but please do keep trying, for the more you try the more you show that you are bereft of any sense of understanding what the OT or NT are all about, themselves; and you have made blasphemous statements about the Person of Jesus Christ in your ignorance, claiming that He was creaated. Are you studying with the Watchtower? They do teach that doctrine of the creation of Jesus Christ.

Are you blind? Evidently.That angel did NOT warn Noah about the coming deludge as stated in Enoch 1....Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spake, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech,
2
and said to him: 'Go to Noah and tell him in my name "Hide thyself!" and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come
3
upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. And now instruct him that he may escape
4
and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world. Descrepancy # 1.. Gen 6:13.... And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Enoch seeing Jesus before Jesus was born, and I will even give you OT scripture..descrepancy #2..Gen 33:19-23 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. 20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, AND LIVE. 21) And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: 22) And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: 23) And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. (Enoch couldn't have seen Jesus, because Jesus was in Gods bosom and would have had to see God also)
John 1:18 ..Descrepancy #3 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
The only time that God was seen on the earth was in the form of an angel. The only time that Jesus was seen in heaven was by God, NOT earthly man who wasn't born yet.
No actually, the JW"s don't come to my door anymore, because they don't want to have to stand and listen to me preach against their religion Haven't seen any in over 2 years now.
No, actually you have it wrong. Jesus was born of a virgin. Spiritual Adam was formed from the dust of the ground The Adam where the Sons of God came from came from "created" Adam. Both accounts of Adam, created and formed are different according to the bible and their decendants are different. I'm not ashamed to say that I believe in 2 human creations. At least I got it all from one book..the bible, and I'm not venerating anyone besides the Lord .
No amount of scripture that you post is going to change my mind on this false belief. By the way, I know you aren't Jewish and I don't think you are into Judism..I really don't know WHAT you are in to, so why don't you call God, God? We came out of the OT a LONG time ago!!!

HisdaughterJen · Jul 31, 2008

Big Mouth Nana said:
Oh sorry. I forgot that the Hebrew sacred scriptures are the ONLY truth. Funny, my bible was translated from the original Hebrew

NO, Nana....our Bibles are translated from TRANSLATIONS (and sometimes translations of translations) of the original Hebrew AND Greek. And YeshuaSavedme is right, there are no commas in the Hebrew.

No, actually you have it wrong. Jesus was born of a virgin. Spiritual Adam was formed from the dust of the ground The Adam where the Sons of God came from came from "created" Adam. Both accounts of Adam, created and formed are different according to the bible and their decendants are different. I'm not ashamed to say that I believe in 2 human creations. At least I got it all from one book..the bible, and I'm not venerating anyone besides the Lord .
No amount of scripture that you post is going to change my mind on this false belief. By the way, I know you aren't Jewish and I don't think you are into Judism..I really don't know WHAT you are in to, so why don't you call God, God? We came out of the OT a LONG time ago!!!

OH, I ALMOST FELL OUT OF MY CHAIR!!!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

SO, THAT's YOUR FALSE BELIEF AND YOU'RE STICKING TO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

She's right, you are repeatedly sticking your foot in your mouth...

HA HA HA HA....

yeshuasavedme · Jul 31, 2008

Big Mouth Nana said:
Spiritual Adam was formed from the dust of the ground ...The Adam where the Sons of God came from came from "created" Adam.

Both accounts of Adam, created and formed are different according to the bible and their decendants are different. I'm not ashamed to say that I believe in 2 human creations. At least I got it all from one book..the bible, and I'm not venerating anyone besides the Lord .
No amount of scripture that you post is going to change my mind

Obviously!
Your paste from that web site about discrepencies in Enoch are total hogwash, vomited up by biblically illiterate persons, who stand to feed the willfully ignorant and the gullible with their own opinions.

You are now posting Mormon doctrine, on Adam being God?????
What comes out of your 'mouth' through your fingers is the most mixed up, non-biblical-non-Scriptural set of false doctrines that I have read in a long time.

So you are now Mormon in opinion, and "Adam made Adam"!!!!

1Cr 15:45-47

Refuting the false doctrine which Nana spouted as her own opinions, but which are doctrines of Mormons, on the two creations, the first human being and the second:.
http://christianforums.com/FRMSTRGRK4.htm#S44445 And so it is written The first human being/anthropos/man Adam was made/ginomi/caused to be a living soul; the last Adam/[anthropos, Man,Jesus Christ] eis/to the quickening/living spirit.

ginomia: prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen"-erate), i.e.
eis: a primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man/anthropos/human being [is] of the earth, earthy: the secondman/anthropos/human being [is] the Lord from heaven.

Big Mouth Nana · Jul 31, 2008

yeshuasavedme said:
Obviously!
Your paste from that web site about discrepencies in Enoch are total hogwash, vomited up by biblically illiterate persons, who stand to feed the willfully ignorant and the gullible with their own opinions.

I didn't paste those verses from a web site. They came right out of the Book of Enoch and the "right" verses came right out of my bible. Me thinks that thou dost protest to much. The enemy NEVER wants to let people go willingly who are trapped by his deception.

You are now posting Mormon doctrine, on Adam being God?????
What comes out of your 'mouth' through your fingers is the most mixed up, non-biblical-non-Scriptural set of false doctrines that I have read in a long time.

LOL!!!!!!!!! You must have a short memory. When I first talked to you on here about 3 years ago, I told you that I was Assembly of God. Right off the get-go, you more or less told me that I was involved in a false doctrine. There was another poster on the topic who read your posts, and told YOU that you were in a cult!!!! You have a selective memory when it comes to defending your own falsehood...SHAME, SHAME ON YOU.

So you are now Mormon in opinion, and "Adam made Adam"!!!![.quote]Uh... might want to go back and read what I said instead of interjecting MORE lies in with your doctrine already.

Geesh, you don't even know what I believe. How could Adam create Adam? You are just attacking someone else defending your "blasphemous" beliefs. I don't push my beliefs in 2 creations down anyones throat on here, and haven't in all of the 5 years on this site. I only brought it up last week against the fallen angels fornicating with the women...which is impossible!!!!! You pop up with them getting the womens DNA and gene splicing....what a real side splitter I laughed so hard

1Cr 15:45-47

Refuting the false doctrine which Nana spouted as her own opinions, but which are doctrines of Mormons, on the two creations, the first human being and the second:.
45 And so it is written The first human being/anthropos/man Adam was made/ginomi/caused to be a living soul; the last Adam/[anthropos, Man,Jesus Christ] eis/to the quickening/living spirit.

ginomia: prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen"-erate), i.e.
eis: a primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man/anthropos/human being [is] of the earth, earthy: the secondman/anthropos/human being [is] the Lord from heaven.[/quote]

Big Mouth Nana · Jul 31, 2008

HisdaughterJen said:
NO, Nana....our Bibles are translated from TRANSLATIONS (and sometimes translations of translations) of the original Hebrew AND Greek. And YeshuaSavedme is right, there are no commas in the Hebrew.

That still doesn't change the meaning of that verse that I posted comma or no comma. It was showing below the feet.

OH, I ALMOST FELL OUT OF MY CHAIR!!!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

SO, THAT's YOUR FALSE BELIEF AND YOU'RE STICKING TO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

She's right, you are repeatedly sticking your foot in your mouth...

HA HA HA HA....

I'm not surprised Jen. You are just about as caught up into the book of Enoch as she is. Birds of a feather flock together as the old saying goes. The spirit of deception isn't stupid, who is Satan. Where one is deceived, it will go right to another interested person to open up their minds to this falsehood. I feel sorry for you people believing this way. You are a follower, not a leader, and I saw this right off reading your posts. The only things that you post are conspiracy theroy type stuff, so you are right in there ready to grab on to any deception and think it is the gospel truth. You will find out one of these days where you went wrong. I would wish you luck, but luck doesn't have anything to do with it. Stay with the book of Enoch..make Satan even happier!!!

HisdaughterJen · Jul 31, 2008

Big Mouth Nana said:
I'm not surprised Jen. You are just about as caught up into the book of Enoch as she is. Birds of a feather flock together as the old saying goes. The spirit of deception isn't stupid, who is Satan. Where one is deceived, it will go right to another interested person to open up their minds to this falsehood. I feel sorry for you people believing this way. You are a follower, not a leader, and I saw this right off reading your posts. The only things that you post are conspiracy theroy type stuff, so you are right in there ready to grab on to any deception and think it is the gospel truth. You will find out one of these days where you went wrong. I would wish you luck, but luck doesn't have anything to do with it. Stay with the book of Enoch..make Satan even happier!!!

Jesus stayed with Enoch. Jude stayed with Enoch. I'm in good company.

Regarding the other stuff about me personally... I think you need a hug.

Talk to God about it, Nana. He will never lead you astray.

Big Mouth Nana · Jul 31, 2008

HisdaughterJen said:
Jesus stayed with Enoch. Jude stayed with Enoch. I'm in good company.

I guess you are in good company... these people are dead. Out of the 3 Jesus is alive!!!!!!!

Regarding the other stuff about me personally.I think you need a hug.

I think you need wisdom from above which is more important then giving hugs.

Talk to God about it, Nana. He will never lead you astray.

Been there done that. I'll believe His Word any time over this The Book of Enoch!!!

HisdaughterJen · Jul 31, 2008

Big Mouth Nana said:
I guess you are in good company... these people are dead. Out of the 3 Jesus is alive!!!!!!!

I think you need wisdom from above which is more important then giving hugs.

Been there done that. I'll believe His Word any time over this The Book of Enoch!!!

As you wish...say whatever you will...I refuse to be offended, thereby allowing the devil a foothold in my life.

All praise and glory to God Almighty and to the Lamb!

God bless you, Nana!

yeshuasavedme · Jul 31, 2008

Big Mouth Nana said:
I guess you are in good company... these people are dead. Out of the 3 Jesus is alive!!!!!!!

foot in Mouth again.
Enoch is not dead, and is very much alive and well, and is dwelling in the City of God, which City he went to by the decree of God the Word, Jesus Christ, Himself, when seen in His pre-incarnate state of being.

He gave Enoch his glorious garments of Glory, by the translation, and they will never grown old, and He took Enoch there , by the angels, and He did so before ever He came in the second human being flesh creation, as the "second Man/human being", and as the "last Adam".

The author of the Book of Hebrews was a reader of the Book of 1 Enoch, and he makes mention that Enoch was not found, because he read that fact in 1 Enoch, for indeed they searched for the body of Enoch when he was taken up. He also read in the book of 1 Enoch that before he was translated that he pleased God.

New American Standard Bible
By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Faith enabled Enoch to be taken instead of dying. No one could find him, because God had taken him. Scripture states that before Enoch was taken, God was pleased with him.

The Scripture that states that God was pleased with Enoch is not that which is in the pages of the Ot, but is that which is written by Enoch, in His own testimony.

Again, Enoch is called Scripture, just as Jesus called it Scripture in Matthew 22:
29 And Jesus answering, said to them: You err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they shall neither marry nor be married; but shall be as the angels of God in heaven.

We learn in the Scriptures written for us by Enoch that God the Word, seen by Enoch as the Great Glory, sitting on the created throne in the created heaven in his vision, said the angels in heaven do not marry and do not give in marraige, and do not have children. That is in 1 Enoch 14.

Jesus told the Sadducees they erred not knowing -understanding- that Scripture.
So do you err for the same reason which Jesus gave the Sadducees, for not knowing/understanding Scripture.

Big Mouth Nana · Jul 31, 2008

HisdaughterJen said:
As you wish...say whatever you will...I refuse to be offended, thereby allowing the devil a foothold in my life.

To late...his foot is already through the door and he has appeared as an angel of light.

The Deception of The Book of Enoch

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