The Deception of The Book of Enoch

yeshuasavedme · Jul 29, 2008

HisdaughterJen said:
Oh, this is too easy....

13:7 Mentions the "land of Dan". Israel did not yet exist

Nonsense. Are you aware of the meaning of the name "Hermon"

Obviously...a commentary written by someone who doesn't know the scriptures.

Yeah, it is too easy!

The land of Dan existed pre-flood, it means "judge", and Mount Hermon -"Mount Zion"- is where the "Watchers -judges" descended both before and after the flood.
Do a search on the judges as "rulers" over the earth -I haven't time, and you will find the connection to the land of Dan before the son of Jacob ever was given that name. Obviously, the commentator has no biblical literacy to make such statements.
Now if Big Mouth Nana would just go read the OT and learn what the things in it state about these issues, before she goes to see what skeptics who have no biblical literacy say, and before she wallows their errors wholesale, then she could get understanding on the subject at hand. But, as she has formed her opinions without understanding the matters herself, then I do not believe she will believe anything she has not written herself or copied from those who have also blocked their understanding by denial of the obvious.

Before Jacob ever had come to be, Dan was still the land of the "judges"; Gen 14:14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained [servants], born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued [them] unto Dan.
Dan is "to judge/ a judge", and the land where the Watchers/the judges/rulers descended, was Mount Hermon =Mount Zion, pre-flood, and post flood, and the land is the "land of Dan", "the land of the judges", and has no connection to the son of Jacob; rather, Jacob's son has a connection to the name, after the word existed and the land existed.

Deu 4:48 From Aroer, which [is] by the bank of the river Arnon, even unto mount Sion/Zion, which [is] Hermon,

Enoch
Chapter 6
And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another:
Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.
And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them:
I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.
And they all answered him and said:
Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.
Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And these are the names of their leaders:

Pre-flood, Eden seems to have been on, in, or at, Mount Hermon, as it is also called Mount Eden in one place. It is the highest point in Israel, and it is where Jesus took His Disciples, Peter, James, and John to, and was transfigured before them when Elijah and Moses appeared and spoke to Him about His upcoming death in Jerusalem.

Haran was the name of the son of Terah who was "killed because of Terah, his father, in Ur Kasdim", and yet Terah and his family settled in "HAran", a city already existing before they got there.
Shechem was the name of a Canaanite prince, who was born in the city of Shechem which was named before he ever was born, and so on and so forth, as to the names of people and places and their "unrelation" to them.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 29, 2008

HisdaughterJen said:
ok..whatever...

If more Christians would delve into the hebrew/greek more, perhaps there wouldn't be all this confusion we have on the Bible.
Enoch may or may not be inspired, but with 66 books in the Bible, I would think it best to first concerntrate on those then go outside of it to look at other writings. But to each his own.

Btw, I did have a thread up concerning the 8 weeks in Enoch here:

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6895192&page=4
Enoch and the 8 weeks

I read thru it once about 3 yrs ago and haven't looked at it since.
I was rather interested in the 8 weeks mentioned in it though which I saved in a folder:

HisdaughterJen · Jul 29, 2008

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 29, 2008

Originally Posted by HisdaughterJen

Oh, this is too easy....

13:7 Mentions the "land of Dan". Israel did not yet exist

Nonsense. Are you aware of the meaning of the name "Hermon"

Obviously...a commentary written by someone who doesn't know the scriptures.

Did ya ever read thru this other Revelation. Interesting it mentions Mt Tabor. How do we know this isn't inspired?

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0831.htm

After the taking up of our Lord Jesus Christ, I John was alone upon Mount Tabor, where also He showed us His undefiled Godhead; and as I was not able to stand, I fell upon the ground, and prayed to the Lord, and said: O Lord my God, who hast deemed me worthy to be Your servant, hear my voice, and teach me about Your coming........................

HisdaughterJen · Jul 29, 2008

LittleLambofJesus said:
If more Christians would delve into the hebrew/greek more, perhaps there wouldn't be all this confusion we have on the Bible.
Enoch may or may not be inspired, but with 66 books in the Bible, I would think it best to first concerntrate on those then go outside of it to look at other writings. But to each his own.

Btw, I did have a thread up concerning the 8 weeks in Enoch here:

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6895192&page=4
Enoch and the 8 weeks

I read thru it once about 3 yrs ago and haven't looked at it since.
I was rather interested in the 8 weeks mentioned in it though which I saved in a folder:

Well, according to the author that I quoted, Esdras 4 says that there are actually 94 books. 24 intended for the public and 70 for the wise.

I'll have to go digging for verification. But, one thing is clear...66 cannot be accurate because of what God says about the number.

4 Ezra 14:44-47

44 So during the forty days ninety-four books were written. 45 And when the forty days were ended, the Most High spoke to me, saying, “Make public the twenty-four books that you wrote first and let the worthy and the unworthy read them; 46 but keep the seventy that were written last, in order to give to the wise among your people. 47 For in them is the spring of understanding, the fountain of wisdom, and the river of knowledge.”

Take it or leave it...but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it were true...especially in light of this:

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what [shall be] the end of these [things]?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

onwingsaseagles · Jul 29, 2008

LittleLambofJesus said:
I remember I had this link in a folder from about 4 yrs ago afte I read Enoch. It shows names and order of rank of the angels. Can't remember if it used Enoch or not though. Read at your own discretion LOL.........

http://freegroups.net/ministry_files/mirrors/ichthys.com/default.htm

The Satanic Rebellion: Background to the Tribulation

This five part series explores the origins and course of Satans initial rebellion against God (part 1: "Satans Rebellion and Fall"), Gods resultant judgment on the universe and planet earth, occasioning the restoration of Genesis (part 2: "The Genesis Gap"), the devils temptation of Adam and Eve (Gods surprise replacements for Satan and his angels), resulting in their corruption and fall (part 3: "The Purpose, Creation, and Fall of Man), the diabolical worldwide system the devil has put in place to rule the earth thus wrested from human control (part 4: "Satans World System"), and Gods seven millennial-day plan history as constructed and conducted by God designed to bring history to His perfect conclusion (part 5: "Judgment, Restoration, and Replacement"). This series is a prelude to the "Coming Tribulation" series, and contains essential and pre-requisite background information for any serious study of the end times, explaining the Tribulations place in the ultimate plan of God.
Part 1: Satan's Rebellion and Fall

Yes, just like Satan, mixing truth with his lies.

HisdaughterJen · Jul 29, 2008

LittleLambofJesus said:
Did ya ever read thru this other Revelation. Interesting it mentions Mt Tabor. How do we know this isn't inspired?

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0831.htm

After the taking up of our Lord Jesus Christ, I John was alone upon Mount Tabor, where also He showed us His undefiled Godhead; and as I was not able to stand, I fell upon the ground, and prayed to the Lord, and said: O Lord my God, who hast deemed me worthy to be Your servant, hear my voice, and teach me about Your coming........................

Let's stick with Enoch in this thread, ok? You can start a new thread on that one if you want.

HisdaughterJen · Jul 29, 2008

onwingsaseagles said:
Yes, just like Satan, mixing truth with his lies.

And back to Enoch...

I think the FACT that Jude quotes Enoch, word for word, lends credence to Enoch.

Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_1.HTM

9 And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy all the ungodly:
And to convict all flesh
Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

yeshuasavedme · Jul 29, 2008

yeshuasavedme said:
Yeah, it is too easy!

The land of Dan existed pre-flood, it means "judge", and Mount Hermon -"Mount Zion"- is where the "Watchers -judges" descended both before and after the flood.
Do a search on the judges as "rulers" over the earth -I haven't time, and you will find the connection to the land of Dan before the son of Jacob ever was given that name. Obviously, the commentator has no biblical literacy to make such statements.
Now if Big Mouth Nana would just go read the OT and learn what the things in it state about these issues, before she goes to see what skeptics who have no biblical literacy say, and before she wallows their errors wholesale, then she could get understanding on the subject at hand. But, as she has formed her opinions without understanding the matters herself, then I do not believe she will believe anything she has not written herself or copied from those who have also blocked their understanding by denial of the obvious.

Before Jacob ever had come to be, Dan was still the land of the "judges"; Gen 14:14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained [servants], born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued [them] unto Dan.
Dan is "to judge/ a judge", and the land where the Watchers/the judges/rulers descended, was Mount Hermon =Mount Zion, pre-flood, and post flood, and the land is the "land of Dan", "the land of the judges", and has no connection to the son of Jacob; rather, Jacob's son has a connection to the name, after the word existed and the land existed.

Deu 4:48 From Aroer, which [is] by the bank of the river Arnon, even unto mount Sion/Zion, which [is] Hermon,
Pre-flood, Eden seems to have been on, in, or at, Mount Hermon, as it is also called Mount Eden in one place. It is the highest point in Israel, and it is where Jesus took His Disciples, Peter, James, and John to, and was transfigured before them when Elijah and Moses appeared and spoke to Him about His upcoming death in Jerusalem.

Haran was the name of the son of Terah who was "killed because of Terah, his father, in Ur Kasdim", and yet Terah and his family settled in "HAran", a city already existing before they got there.
Shechem was the name of a Canaanite prince, who was born in the city of Shechem which was named before he ever was born, and so on and so forth, as to the names of people and places and their "unrelation" to them.

On Mount Hermon, this Psalm line speaks of the blessing, everlasting life, conmmanded there. -harar is singular in this verse, for it is speaking of Mount Hermon, as Mount Zion, and nothing else.

Psa 133:3
As the dew of Hermon, [and as the dew] that descended upon the mountain of Zion [Hermon -is it Mount Eden?]: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, [even] life for evermore.

yeshuasavedme · Jul 29, 2008

LittleLambofJesus said:
If more Christians would delve into the hebrew/greek more, perhaps there wouldn't be all this confusion we have on the Bible.

I do delve into the Hebrew, as a passion. I have asked you a question on the Rapture in Enoch thread which concerns Hebrew, and hope you will come answer it as it deals exclusively with the issue of lion gods or lion men, and I would like you to input; also to please answer the question on where the Scripture of Truth is to be found, that the angel read and recited the things to come, from, concerning Daniel's people, which Daniel recorded for us in chapters 11 and 12.
"Daniel 10:21 "I will show you that which is written/inscribed in the Writing/Scripture of Truth, and one/echad binds with me in these things, Michael, your prince"

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 29, 2008

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Did ya ever read thru this other Revelation. Interesting it mentions Mt Tabor. How do we know this isn't inspired?

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0831.htm

After the taking up of our Lord Jesus Christ, I John was alone upon Mount Tabor, where also He showed us His undefiled Godhead; and as I was not able to stand, I fell upon the ground, and prayed to the Lord, and said: O Lord my God, who hast deemed me worthy to be Your servant, hear my voice, and teach me about Your coming........................

HisdaughterJen said:
Let's stick with Enoch in this thread, ok? You can start a new thread on that one if you want.

Why? Revelation is of the same apolcalyptic language as Enoch, Ezekiel and Daniel is it not?
What about this passage in 2 Corin 12 concerning a man caught away to the 3rd heaven? Surely he is not talking about Enoch or Elijah.

2 Corinthians 12:1 To be boasting is binding not, being expedient indeed I shall be coming yet into visions and revealings of Lord
2 I have known/perceived a man in Christ, before years fourteen, whether in body, not I have known/perceived, whether out-side of the body not I have known/perceived; the God has known/perceived, being caught away the such one till of third of heaven.
3 And I have known/perceived such a man whether in body whether apart/out-of from the body not I know/perceive, the God has known/perceived.
4 That he was caught-away into the Paradise and hears un-declarable declarations which not permitting to man to speak.
5 Over of the such one I shall be boasting, over yet myself I shall not be boasting except in my infirmities/weaknesses.

HisdaughterJen · Jul 29, 2008

LittleLambofJesus said:
Why? Revelation is of the same apolcalyptic language as Enoch, Ezekiel and Daniel is it not?
What about this passage in 2 Corin 12 concerning a man caught away to the 3rd heaven? Surely he is not talking about Enoch or Elijah.

2 Corinthians 12:1 To be boasting is binding not, being expedient indeed I shall be coming yet into visions and revealings of Lord
2 I have known/perceived a man in Christ, before years fourteen, whether in body, not I have known/perceived, whether out-side of the body not I have known/perceived; the God has known/perceived, being caught away the such one till of third of heaven.
3 And I have known/perceived such a man whether in body whether apart/out-of from the body not I know/perceive, the God has known/perceived.
4 That he was caught-away into the Paradise and hears un-declarable declarations which not permitting to man to speak.
5 Over of the such one I shall be boasting, over yet myself I shall not be boasting except in my infirmities/weaknesses.

Little Lamb, surely you don't think I'm THAT stupid.

It wasn't Revelation that you quoted, it was some other book found at this link that you gave: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0831.htm

I find it fascinating that you always pop on to threads and post weird stuff having nothing to do with the topic and try to confuse and derail. Why is that? Are you unable to focus? Are you mentally disabled? Seriously, what's up with you?

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 29, 2008

HisdaughterJen said:
Little Lamb, surely you don't think I'm THAT stupid.

It wasn't Revelation that you quoted, it was some other book found at this link that you gave: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0831.htm

I find it fascinating that you always pop on to threads and post weird stuff having nothing to do with the topic and try to confuse and derail. Why is that? Are you unable to focus? Are you mentally disabled? Seriously, what's up with you?

Aren't most Preterists? Ok. I decided to start a thread on it

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=48014075#post48014075

yeshuasavedme · Jul 29, 2008

I started a new thread on the appointed blessing of the Tree of Life, which He appointed on Mount Hermon, the Mount of Zion.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 29, 2008

yeshuasavedme said:
I started a new thread on the appointed blessing of the Tree of Life, which He appointed on Mount Hermon, the Mount of Zion.

Just in case anyone is interested, there was also a thread on the "tree/wood of life" here

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7259006&page=11
The useless (?) tree of life

garry2 · Jul 29, 2008

HisdaughterJen said:
Little Lamb, surely you don't think I'm THAT stupid.

It wasn't Revelation that you quoted, it was some other book found at this link that you gave: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0831.htm

I find it fascinating that you always pop on to threads and post weird stuff having nothing to do with the topic and try to confuse and derail. Why is that? Are you unable to focus? Are you mentally disabled? Seriously, what's up with you?[/quote]

I beleive the reason is much more serious than those.

A matter of whose will one is doing.

The Father dosn't will that good Christian discussions be constantly derailed out of the way, but there is one who does will that, and has many followers.
They are wolves in sheeps clothing and many are fooled by them.

Some may not be aware they are being used, such is the result of being lukewarm, not serious, playing, tickling and having their ears tickled, is what they are here for.

Anything to stifle truth.

Big Mouth Nana · Jul 29, 2008

Biblewriter said:
I never even bothered to look at this miserable book until now. I find it difficult to believe that any spiritual person could be deceived by such nonsense. If this book even existed at the time the early Christians agreed on the canon of scripture, it is easy to see why they did not include it.

Yes, VERY easy to see why it wasn't included. I guess some people believe that just because they know tons of scripture that makes them "Spiritual"...NADA!! Satan knows scripture.

After the Holy Scriptures had quoted Enoch, it would very easy to include similar passages in a new book. So the presence of these passages in this document in no way proves it is genuine.

A single direct contradiction with scripture settles the matter in my mind with great finality. This cannot be an inspired book because it contradicts what God said. But aside from that, as I read on I was struck by the "fairy tale" character of what I was reading. It in no way has the flavor and tenor of scripture. It is in my opinion nothing but a compilation of ancient Hebrew notions. And anyone who has read them knows that they are in some cases very fantastical.

It only took one contradiction for me also, but I found even more after the one. I sat here in amazement all last night reading this "mumbo jumbo"!! That is the first thing that I noticed when I was reading it. It didn't flow like the bible at all. It had no biblical consistancy whatsoever. It sounded like something that Steven King would write lol. Any book that talks about angels more then it does God is right off of the pen of Satan!!!! People that are caught up into this Satanic lie need to repent and get back to the ONE AND ONLY WORD..GOD'S WORD..before it's to late!!

Big Mouth Nana · Jul 30, 2008

LittleLambofJesus said:
Why? Revelation is of the same apolcalyptic language as Enoch, Ezekiel and Daniel is it not?
What about this passage in 2 Corin 12 concerning a man caught away to the 3rd heaven? Surely he is not talking about Enoch or Elijah.

No LLoJ, Paul was talking about himself. He was trying not to boast about it.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 30, 2008

Big Mouth Nana said:
No LLoJ, Paul was talking about himself. He was trying not to boast about it.

That is why this guy probably thought Paul was the one that visioned revelation under the name "john".

edit to add: and no I do not agree with this guy though I haven't read thru all of his site.

http://www.godshew.org/Revelations3.htm

Author of Revelation isn't John as many assume

Big Mouth Nana · Jul 30, 2008

LittleLambofJesus said:
That is why this guy probably thought Paul was the one that visioned revelation under the name "john".

edit to add: and no I do not agree with this guy though I haven't read thru all of his site.

http://www.godshew.org/Revelations3.htm

Author of Revelation isn't John as many assume

Well, it was John that had the revelation because he says this..Rev 21:2 ~And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 22:8 ~And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Well, my bible says at the beginning of Revelation that John is the author. I have no reason to believe that it wasn't him, do you

The Deception of The Book of Enoch

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