The day of reckoning. What will replace the standard solar theory?

[Loudmouth]

Apparently you're blind because I observe green light all around that image at the limb.

But you do not observe it coming from 4800KM from within the Sun. The photosphere is opaque just a few hundred km in. The plasma you are pointing to is over a million degrees kelvin. Last I checked, that is well above the melting point of iron.

If that were the case, the limb image would show the bulk of the bright green light would be located inside the orange chromosphere, and the limb darkening of the iron ion wavelengths would coincide with the inside smooth edge of the orange chromosphere/photosphere boundary.

No, that is what we should see if your claims are true. The green should be brightest where there is the least amount of plasma to absorbe the light. Add to the fact that you are using an image with known artefacts from processing and you have zero evidence for your claims. Where is the green line in this image?

http://ia600505.us.archive.org/18/i...1-orig/447365main_f_211_193_171-orig_full.jpg

It isn't there.

In terms of these specific wavelengths it should be opaque in something on the order of 10 *meters*, not kilometers in standard theory.

No, it shouldn't:

The Photosphere of the Sun

Pretty much every claim about the photosphere in standard solar theory went up in smoke in that first light image, and every AIA image since. Now the HMI gear confirms that the standard solar model is falsified.

What now?

Your claims have been thoroughly debunked.

 

[Nabobalis]

The smooth inside edge of the orange ring is the photosphere/chromosphere boundary. The orange ring in the image is the chromosphere as seen in 304A, minus the photosphere.

According to standard theory, the footprints of the coronal loops begin about 1200KM *above* that boundary, somewhere inside the orange chromosphere, inside of a "transition region" between the corona and the chromosphere.

That is absolutely *not* what we observed in the SDO first light image. We observe that the base of the iron ion images begin a full 4800KM *under* the photosphere, exactly where I predicted they began based upon Kosovichev's study of mass movements under sunspots, and his paper on a "stratification subsurface".

The single most important physical difference between the standard model and a Birkeland cathode solar model is the location where the magnetic ropes become visible to SDO in relationship to the photosphere. In the standard model, it's *impossible* for iron ion wavelengths to travel more than about 10 *meters* through a non electrically conductive "photosphere".

Since current traverses that layer in a Birkeland cathode model, the net energy state of that double layer is *much higher* than in the standard model. It's therefore possible for light of such wavelengths to traverse large distances of the solar atmosphere.

In terms of solar satellite images, this is the single most important difference between the standard solar model and any type of Birkeland cathode solar model. The fact we *can* observe light *under* that orange chromosphere not only falsifies standard solar theory, it simultaneously supports a Birkeland cathode model.

The real "proof' however is found in the effects of the magnetic ropes on the surface of the photosphere around active regions. The ropes rip parts of the photosphere seen in 1600A images during flares. The loops sometimes become visible in 1600A along the limb above active regions too.

All the images from SDO fit like a glove with a Birkeland solar model, but the very first light image from the AIA rack falsified standard theory for all time.

The Heliosceismology data is just the icing on the cake in terms of outright falsifying standard solar theory. Both the AIA gear and the HMI equipment on SDO have falsified standard solar theory. It's not a question of *if* the standard solar theory is broken, it's a question of what do we do about it?

Until you can reproduce that image with more recent data I don't see the issue. There seems to be no detail on how that first light image was produced. Others have stated there are processing artifacts, if so, the image is near useless.

 

[Michael]

Until you can reproduce that image with more recent data I don't see the issue. There seems to be no detail on how that first light image was produced. Others have stated there are processing artifacts, if so, the image is near useless.

There is absolutely no "processing artifact" about that green horizon. It's simply due to the 4800KM gap that I predicted would exist between the solid surface of the sun, and the top of the Neon photosphere, and the color assignments they gave the iron ion lines. There are a ton of other images to work with however and this is on the tip of the iceburg.

The most damning evidence of all is the mass movements seen in 1600A images. They all show materials coming up through the surface of the photosphere, and in many cases following the magnetic ropes back into that surface. Then there's the alignments between the hot points observed in 1600A, the mangetogram intensities, and the largest coronal loops. All the AIA gear completely supports a Birkeland cathode solar model, right down to the very first light SDO images!

You can check all the alignment aspects out for yourself in real time using Helioviewer to overlay the wavelengths, and adjust the sensitivities of those wavelengths.

The key to understanding solar physics is to understand the nature of magnetic ropes. They are current carrying threads of moving plasma, that can release powerful discharges in the solar atmosphere. The rest is simply the application of physics to the solar images. The loops are radiating at a million plus degrees as the go from one point on the solid surface to another. The largest loops rise up and through the surface of the Neon photosphere, leaving strong magnetic fields and hot plasma on the surface of the photosphere in the locations of the large loops. Only the largest magnetic ropes that occur over active regions leave hot spots and magnetic footprints on the surface of the photosphere. The smaller ropes never rise far enough into the solar atmosphere to reach the surface of the photosphere. When electrical discharges occur, the often occur *under* the surface of the photosphere seen in 1600A images, blowing material up and through the Neon photosphere.

Every single SDO image will demonstrate these points. You'll also see bright spots in 1700A images too, though the mass movements through the photosphere are more obvious in 1600A images.

Try it out for yourself in Helioviewer images of any active region, preferably one that is active enough to generate a sunspot. Run some 1600A limb images of those active regions as they come over and go over the horizon. You'll see the mass movements I'm talking about.

There are such images on my website. I round you up links after work, but IMO it's more impressive when you overlay the images yourself during timelines of your own choosing.

 

[Michael]

It's not like the AIA equipment is the only equipment on SDO that is/has falsified standard solar theory. The HMI gear killed mainstream convection predictions dead within the first two years.

 

[Michael]

But you do not observe it coming from 4800KM from within the Sun.

Oh yes I do. I actually sat down and counted the number of pixels between the inside edge of the chromosphere (photosphere) and the limb darkened areas seen in the iron ion wavelengths. It worked out to the *exact* number that I picked out from Kosovichev's heliosceismology data in 2005, specifically 4800KM.

The photosphere is opaque just a few hundred km in.

That statement is only accurate in one now *falsified* solar theory! Its *not* opaque to iron ion wavelengths as the SDO images demonstrate. In standard theory it should be 'opaque' to these wavelengths in mere *meters* not 4800KM!

The plasma you are pointing to is over a million degrees kelvin. Last I checked, that is well above the melting point of iron.

Nobody suggested otherwise. I did not claim to see solids in raw iron ion images. The sustained heat comes from the sustained current that traverses the magnetic rope. That current heats up the *almost*, but not quite perfect conductor of moving plasma. If and when the circuit erupts, solar flares and electrical discharges ensue.

No, that is what we should see if your claims are true. The green should be brightest where there is the least amount of plasma to absorbe the light.

Nope. They should be "brightest" where most of the material is being ionized, specifically near the solid surface.

Add to the fact that you are using an image with known artefacts from processing

What artifact of processing? You keep accusing NASA of things without a shred of support for your claims. The color is an "arbitrary choice", but it is not an artifact of processing. Anytime you blend yellow and blue you get green.

Where is the green line in this image?

http://ia600505.us.archive.org/18/i...1-orig/447365main_f_211_193_171-orig_full.jpg

It isn't there.

But *other colors* are there on the horizon, right above the limb darkened part of the disk! The iron ion lines were assigned various colors and the blending of those colors *does* show up as a bright area on the horizon of each and every single iron ion blended image! In that particular image the horizon works out to be a light blue around most of the disk other than the poles where it's a dark blue due to temperature and current variations in those regions.

Your claims have been thoroughly debunked.

Actually your claims about the opacity of the photosphere were "debunked" by the very first SDO first light images. HMI also "debunked" your solar model along with it's convection speed predictions. Say bye-bye to the standard solar model. Neither instrument on SDO supports it!

 

[Loudmouth]

Oh yes I do. I actually sat down and counted the number of pixels between the inside edge of the chromosphere (photosphere) and the limb darkened areas seen in the iron ion wavelengths.

You aren't looking at a cross section. You are not measuring a distance into the Sun. You are measuring a distance from the horizon to a point on the surface of the Sun.

That statement is only accurate in one now *falsified* solar theory! Its *not* opaque to iron ion wavelengths as the SDO images demonstrate. In standard theory it should be 'opaque' to these wavelengths in mere *meters* not 4800KM!

It is opaque, as the picture actually shows. You are seeing ions in the chromosphere as they are millions of degrees kelvin.

But *other colors* are there on the horizon, right above the limb darkened part of the disk!

But your green line below the horizon is not. Your model is falsified.

 

[Loudmouth]

There is absolutely no "processing artifact" about that green horizon.

And how did you determine this?

 

[Michael]

And how did you determine this?

20 years of solar satellite image analysis for starters. FYI every iron ion wavelength, even prior to SDO shows exactly that same effect. There is always a 'bright horizon' right above the limb darkened region of the disk in every iron ion image of the sun! If we blend various colors together, guess what happens? The various colors assigned to the iron ion wavelengths *blend* at the horizon. The green color is simply a blend of blue and yellow, the colors that they assigned to the iron ion images that were used in that first light image. Had they chosen to assign the iron ion lines red and blue, the horizon would have been purple.

 

[Loudmouth]

20 years of solar satellite image analysis for starters.

Then you should know that you are not looking at a cross section. Your measurements are entirely bogus.

FYI every iron ion wavelength, even prior to SDO shows exactly that same effect. There is always a 'bright horizon' right above the limb darkened region of the disk in every iron ion image of the sun! If we blend various colors together, guess what happens? The various colors assigned to the iron ion wavelengths *blend* at the horizon. The green color is simply a blend of blue and yellow, the colors that they assigned to the iron ion images that were used in that first light image. Had they chosen to assign the iron ion lines red and blue, the horizon would have been purple.

Your green line disappears in the images not processed by the PR people. Go figure. This is clear evidence that you are pointing at nothing more than a processing artifact.

 

[Michael]

You aren't looking at a cross section.

I didn't claim otherwise. At the limb however there is a 4800KM gap between the bottom of the chromosphere (photosphere) and the limb darkened disk below the bright horizon in iron ion wavelengths.

You are not measuring a distance into the Sun. You are measuring a distance from the horizon to a point on the surface of the Sun.

No, I'm measuring the distance between the horizon line of the solid suface and the horizon line of the chromosphere/photosphere boundary. There's a 4800KM distance between them.

It is opaque, as the picture actually shows. You are seeing ions in the chromosphere as they are millions of degrees kelvin.

If the bright horizon of the iron lines was sitting in the middle of that orange band, you might have a case. As it stands, your model and your claims are falsified by the image.

But your green line below the horizon is not. Your model is falsified.

There is *always* a bright horizon above the limb darkened areas of the disk in *every* iron ion image of the sun. SDO is not an exception. The only difference is that SDO can actually show that bright iron ion horizon in relationship to the photosphere. The bright horizon limb darkens *under* the photosphere, not above it, and not on it. It actually only limb darkens in iron ion lines 4800KM *under* the photosphere.

 

[Loudmouth]

I didn't claim otherwise. At the limb however there is a 4800KM gap between the bottom of the chromosphere (photosphere) and the limb darkened disk below the bright horizon in iron ion wavelengths.

No, there is a gap between the horizon and the start of the ion flows on the surface of the Sun. That is what you are measuring.

If the bright horizon of the iron lines was sitting in the middle of that orange band, you might have a case. As it stands, your model and your claims are falsified by the image.

They are verified by the image:

http://ia600505.us.archive.org/18/i...1-orig/447365main_f_211_193_171-orig_full.jpg



Do you really think that the steam in this picture originates from the middle of this guys brain?

http://totallycoolpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07122011_best_sports_pix_2011/sport2011_081.jpg

Or is the origin of the steam trail on the surface of his head? Do you understand this or not?

 

[Michael]

No, there is a gap between the horizon and the start of the ion flows on the surface of the Sun. That is what you are measuring.

If that were actually the case, and mainstream theory was correct, the limb darkening that is observed in the iron lines would occur at or inside the orange band of the chromosphere, and the bright horizon of the iron lines should occur inside or above the orange chromosphere.

The image falsifies your claim. The bright horizon of the iron lines isn't sitting in the orange chromosphere, or lower corona, it's sitting 4800Km *under* the photosphere.

They are verified by the image:

http://ia600505.us.archive.org/18/i...1-orig/447365main_f_211_193_171-orig_full.jpg

That images only demonstrates that all iron ion images have a bright horizon around the disk that is directly related to the color assignments given to the iron ion wavelengths.

Do you really think that the steam in this picture originates from the middle of this guys brain?

http://totallycoolpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07122011_best_sports_pix_2011/sport2011_081.jpg

Or is the origin of the steam trail on the surface of his head? Do you understand this or not?

I completely understand that you are irrationally comparing apples to oranges. Your sports image is unrelated to solar physics. It is lit by a single light source somewhere *far away from* the person in question. What does that have to do with solar physics and iron ion images of the sun?

 

[Loudmouth]

I completely understand that you are irrationally comparing apples to oranges.

Apples to apples, chief. You are looking at features that are above the surface of the Sun just as the steam is above the surface of the guy's head.

 

[Michael]

Apples to apples, chief.

One light source vs. trillions of light sources chief. No comparison.

You are looking at features that are above the surface of the Sun just as the steam is above the surface of the guy's head.

The "head" in the case of solar physics is the *solid surface*, and indeed, all the light we observe comes from above that limb darkened surface. As the image also demonstrates, the light originates 4800KM *under* the bottom of the orange chromosphere.

 

[Loudmouth]

One light source vs. trillions of light sources chief. No comparison.

It is a direct apples to apples comparison.

The "head" in the case of solar physics is the *solid surface*,

How can the head be solid when we can look right through it to see steam rising from inside of the head? I measured from the edge of the head to where the steam starts and it is several inches inside the head.

 

[Michael]

It is a direct apples to apples comparison.

No, it's not. Any iron ion image has any number of multiple 'light sources" that are related to the number of magnetic ropes that are visible in the image. These images aren't even close to the same wavelengths and they have nothing to do with one another. Your sports image is unrelated. How about using a real solar image and show me any iron ion image that doesn't have a bright horizon around a darkened disk at the limb?

 

[Michael]

Ya know.....

SDO AIA image debates cannot and will not save mainstream theory from the HMI equipment on SDO. The HMI gear has already falsified mainstream convection predictions. It's not like this one debate or this one image is going to save your precious standard solar theory from total scientific destruction.

 

[Loudmouth]

Ya know.....

SDO AIA debates cannot and will not save you from the HMI equipment on SDO. It's already falsified mainstream convection predictions. It's not like this one debate or this one image is going to save your precious standard solar theory from total scientific destruction.

This SDO picture has already falsified your solid surface. No green line in this picture:


http://ia600505.us.archive.org/18/i...1-orig/447365main_f_211_193_171-orig_full.jpg

 

[Loudmouth]

Your sports image is unrelated.

It is exactly the same effect that you are pointing at with your green line. The lines originate from the surface, not from within the sun.

 

[Nabobalis]

There is absolutely no "processing artifact" about that green horizon. It's simply due to the 4800KM gap that I predicted would exist between the solid surface of the sun, and the top of the Neon photosphere, and the color assignments they gave the iron ion lines. There are a ton of other images to work with however and this is on the tip of the iceburg.

The most damning evidence of all is the mass movements seen in 1600A images. They all show materials coming up through the surface of the photosphere, and in many cases following the magnetic ropes back into that surface. Then there's the alignments between the hot points observed in 1600A, the mangetogram intensities, and the largest coronal loops. All the AIA gear completely supports a Birkeland cathode solar model, right down to the very first light SDO images!

You can check all the alignment aspects out for yourself in real time using Helioviewer to overlay the wavelengths, and adjust the sensitivities of those wavelengths.

The key to understanding solar physics is to understand the nature of magnetic ropes. They are current carrying threads of moving plasma, that can release powerful discharges in the solar atmosphere. The rest is simply the application of physics to the solar images. The loops are radiating at a million plus degrees as the go from one point on the solid surface to another. The largest loops rise up and through the surface of the Neon photosphere, leaving strong magnetic fields and hot plasma on the surface of the photosphere in the locations of the large loops. Only the largest magnetic ropes that occur over active regions leave hot spots and magnetic footprints on the surface of the photosphere. The smaller ropes never rise far enough into the solar atmosphere to reach the surface of the photosphere. When electrical discharges occur, the often occur *under* the surface of the photosphere seen in 1600A images, blowing material up and through the Neon photosphere.

Every single SDO image will demonstrate these points. You'll also see bright spots in 1700A images too, though the mass movements through the photosphere are more obvious in 1600A images.

Try it out for yourself in Helioviewer images of any active region, preferably one that is active enough to generate a sunspot. Run some 1600A limb images of those active regions as they come over and go over the horizon. You'll see the mass movements I'm talking about.

There are such images on my website. I round you up links after work, but IMO it's more impressive when you overlay the images yourself during timelines of your own choosing.

So why haven't you recreated the image using more recent data? Or made a nice movie of this green line?

If no one knows how this image was created in the first place, we can't rely on it for any information.