The Dawn Massacre

[Blessedj01]

You realize this is the same kind of mentality that causes these types of messes? " my god is better than yours. Now we fight "

No people firing rockets and conducting suicide bombings cause these messes. Stop deflecting blame from the true source of violence: Hamas.

 

[Profane]

I think many people will be held accountable for siding with the enemies of Israel

Why? I see no reason to support Israel over the enemies of Israel, perhaps if the Jewish people accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior, as they should I would be more compelled to feel some kinship with them, but as it stands, the Jewish faith is as false as the Islamic faith.

Now, I'm not advocating any sort of genocide against either side, but I'm rather tired of the special treatment the Jewish people seem to think their entitled to from Christians; and of coarse the so-called 'Christians' who encourage them to think this way.

 

[mpok1519]

No people firing rockets and conducting suicide bombings cause these messes. Stop deflecting blame from the true source of violence: Hamas.

You must not have been watching the news, but they're both fighting each other.

It's not just one side initiating violence.

In fact Israel just broke the seven hour truce with a bombing attack that killed 29.

I was referring to the mentality that in the undertone for all this violence.

 

[Zeek]

You realize this is the same kind of mentality that causes these types of messes?

" my god is better than yours. Now we fight "

The spread of Islamic jihad is the problem...Islam is more of a fascist ideology than any sort of religion....and this is what Israel is really fighting against.

 

[mpok1519]

The spread of Islamic jihad is the problem...Islam is more of a fascist ideology than any sort of religion....and this is what Israel is really fighting against.

Funny, I have friends that are Muslim and they're nothing like what you just described.

 

[Zeek]

Why? I see no reason to support Israel over the enemies of Israel, perhaps if the Jewish people accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior, as they should I would be more compelled to feel some kinship with them, but as it stands, the Jewish faith is as false as the Islamic faith.

Perhaps if you understood that G-d actually placed His Name on the Jewish people and especially in these times is once again bringing them to the fore in world affairs it might make a difference.

The idea of Jewish people having to believe in Jesus as Messiah before they are acceptable or for people to see that they are morally in the right in this conflict is reprehensible IMO...

As Christians we actually believe the whole of their Scripture...the difference being that most Jewish people do not accept the Newer Covenant...and they aren't likely to unless they get a revelation from G-d Himself, because many Christians have actually been the barrier to their understanding.

Now, I'm not advocating any sort of genocide against either side, but I'm rather tired of the special treatment the Jewish people seem to think their entitled to from Christians; and of coarse the so-called 'Christians' who encourage them to think this way.

I have never met a Jewish person who thinks they are entitled to any special treatment, and most do not even like the term 'chosen people'...but the fact remains that G-d did choose them to be a light to the world...any empathy a Christian feels towards their Jewish brethren should be from an understanding of G-ds heart towards His covenant people Israel.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

What you are neglecting to address is the fact that Hamas launched a surprise attack on Israel just 90 minutes into a 72 hour cease fire.

"Israel launched dozens of airstrikes early Saturday in the southern Gaza Strip as part of a large-scale search for a soldier Israel suspects was captured by Hamas fighters.

At least 35 Palestinians were killed in the bombardment and shelling in and around the city of Rafah early Saturday, a Palestinian health official said, adding that the area's main hospital was evacuated because of the strikes." Source

So they attacked Rafah because of a missing soldier they say Hamas captured an hour after the ceasefire. But, wait:

"The Israeli military said Sunday that an Israeli soldier it previously believed had been captured by Hamas fighters in a Gaza ambush had in fact been killed in battle that day." Source

Oops. Looks like Israel lied again to justify its attacks just as it did in the beginning of this massacre. And it looks like Hamas' original statements were more accurate than that of Israel's:

"The Hamas military wing....said it believes the soldier might have been killed in a clash with Hamas fighters about an hour before the start of the cease-fire." Source

Instead of condemning Hamas for violating the cease fire, you condemn Israel for reacting to a dishonorable attack (but then I guess it's okay for Muslims to lie to "infidels" if it furthers one's cause).

Instead of condemning Israel for launching the current massacre in Gaza with a major lie, you condemn Hamas for reacting to a dishonorable attack.

1.) Israel knew that those "missing" Israeli teenagers (who were illegal occupiers) were dead before they let the world know, issuing a gag order on the media. They kept the world believing that they might be alive so that they could be justified in attacking Israel to "rescue" those teens. They bombed, killed, and imprisoned Palestinians while on this fake rescue mission.

2.) Israel knew that those boys were found in the West Bank (that still has illegal Jewish settlers) and not Gaza (mainly all Muslim)....and yet they still attacked Gaza. Leads me to wonder if Gaza was attacked partly because it's easier to punish them collectively given that there aren't people there Israel actually cares about (i.e. Jews and/or Zionists).

3.) The Israeli government placed the blame completely and absolutely on Hamas (because the sick man, Netanyahu, "knew" that it was them)...only for us to find out weeks later that it wasn't Hamas but, allegedly, a few rogue Palestinians.

But I guess it's okay for Jews and/or Zionists to lie to "goyim" if it furthers one's cause.

I'm going to be blunt about this, if Israel really wanted to kill Palestinian Children, there would actually be fewer Israeli casualties.

Yeah, the bombing of beaches is not Israel really wanting to kill children (the only people around).

They could completely level Gaza (literally) in the matter of hours, the reason this fight is taking as long as it is, is because the Israelis are trying to avoid killing civilians while taking out Hamas.

So how many Hamas members have been killed vs. how many non-combatants? And how many Hamas members were killed in the attacks of the building for the disabled, schools, hospitals, and the beach?

As for the argument that Israel could annihilate the Palestinians if they wanted to which means they are trying to limit civilian deaths, that's holding a very high opinion of the integrity and honesty of Israel. Their track record on those two is awful. Maybe they don't flatten Gaza (like Ariel Sharon's son wants to) because in doing so they'd lose some of their die-hard supporters and might have to pick on countries their own size with capable militaries and sophisticated weaponry.

 

[Blessedj01]

You must not have been watching the news, but they're both fighting each other. It's not just one side initiating violence. In fact Israel just broke the seven hour truce with a bombing attack that killed 29. I was referring to the mentality that in the undertone for all this violence.

The undertone is that Hamas are terrorists.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Not true in this case.

Hamas violated the ceasefire in the run up to this incident.

Wrong.

"....the reported capture by Hamas on Friday of an Israeli soldier through a tunnel – illustrated in stark fashion the layers of deception Israel has successfully cast over its attack on Gaza."

"So if a ceasefire was in place, what were Goldin and his comrades doing detonating tunnels, tunnels in which Israel says Hamas is hiding? Were Hamas fighters supposed to simply wait to be entombed in their bunkers during the pause in hostilities? Or was Israel the one violating the ceasefire?"

Israeli deceptions revealed in story of 'kidnapped' soldier | Mondoweiss

Of course, we know that he died before the ceasefire, but neither of Israel's scenarios for the justification of attacking Rafah work. It was Israel that broke the ceasefire either way.

 

[Blessedj01]

Wrong. "....the reported capture by Hamas on Friday of an Israeli soldier through a tunnel – illustrated in stark fashion the layers of deception Israel has successfully cast over its attack on Gaza." "So if a ceasefire was in place, what were Goldin and his comrades doing detonating tunnels, tunnels in which Israel says Hamas is hiding? Were Hamas fighters supposed to simply wait to be entombed in their bunkers during the pause in hostilities? Or was Israel the one violating the ceasefire?" Israeli deceptions revealed in story of ‘kidnapped’ soldier | Mondoweiss Of course, we know that he died before the ceasefire, but neither of Israel's scenarios for the justification of attacking Rafah work. It was Israel that broke the ceasefire either way.

As far as I know the ceasefires have never included Israel not dealing with the tunnels.

You call them "fighters" but they were digging tunnels into Israel. That makes them invaders.

Assuming your narrative is true, why would anyone think a ceasefire counts for invading terrorists sitting inside tunnels that were made to attack civilians on the other side?

 

[abysmul]

Interesting history lesson and opinion...

The Middle East Problem - YouTube

 

[GondwanaLand]

"Israel launched dozens of airstrikes early Saturday in the southern Gaza Strip as part of a large-scale search for a soldier Israel suspects was captured by Hamas fighters.

At least 35 Palestinians were killed in the bombardment and shelling in and around the city of Rafah early Saturday, a Palestinian health official said, adding that the area's main hospital was evacuated because of the strikes." Source

So they attacked Rafah because of a missing soldier they say Hamas captured an hour after the ceasefire. But, wait:

"The Israeli military said Sunday that an Israeli soldier it previously believed had been captured by Hamas fighters in a Gaza ambush had in fact been killed in battle that day." Source

Oops. Looks like Israel lied again to justify its attacks just as it did in the beginning of this massacre. And it looks like Hamas' original statements were more accurate than that of Israel's:

"The Hamas military wing....said it believes the soldier might have been killed in a clash with Hamas fighters about an hour before the start of the cease-fire." Source

Instead of condemning Israel for launching the current massacre in Gaza with a major lie, you condemn Hamas for reacting to a dishonorable attack.

1.) Israel knew that those "missing" Israeli teenagers (who were illegal occupiers) were dead before they let the world know, issuing a gag order on the media. They kept the world believing that they might be alive so that they could be justified in attacking Israel to "rescue" those teens. They bombed, killed, and imprisoned Palestinians while on this fake rescue mission.

2.) Israel knew that those boys were found in the West Bank (that still has illegal Jewish settlers) and not Gaza (mainly all Muslim)....and yet they still attacked Gaza. Leads me to wonder if Gaza was attacked partly because it's easier to punish them collectively given that there aren't people there Israel actually cares about (i.e. Jews and/or Zionists).

3.) The Israeli government placed the blame completely and absolutely on Hamas (because the sick man, Netanyahu, "knew" that it was them)...only for us to find out weeks later that it wasn't Hamas but, allegedly, a few rogue Palestinians.

But I guess it's okay for Jews and/or Zionists to lie to "goyim" if it furthers one's cause.

Yeah, the bombing of beaches is not Israel really wanting to kill children (the only people around).

So how many Hamas members have been killed vs. how many non-combatants? And how many Hamas members were killed in the attacks of the building for the disabled, schools, hospitals, and the beach?

As for the argument that Israel could annihilate the Palestinians if they wanted to which means they are trying to limit civilian deaths, that's holding a very high opinion of the integrity and honesty of Israel. Their track record on those two is awful. Maybe they don't flatten Gaza (like Ariel Sharon's son wants to) because in doing so they'd lose some of their die-hard supporters and might have to pick on countries their own size with capable militaries and sophisticated weaponry.

Some more on ISrael's atrocities:
Gaza: Israeli Soldiers Shoot and Kill Fleeing Civilians | Human Rights Watch

Gaza: Israeli Soldiers Shoot and Kill Fleeing Civilians


Fighting in Khuza’a Shows Grave Dangers to Families Seeking Safety

August 4, 2014


(Gaza) – Israeli forces in the southern Gaza town of Khuza’a fired on and killed civilians in apparent violation of the laws of war in several incidents between July 23 and 25, 2014. Deliberate attacks on civilians who are not participating in the fighting are war crimes.

Seven Palestinians who had fled Khuza’a described to Human Rights Watch the grave dangers that civilians have faced in trying to flee the town, near the Israeli border, to seek safety in Khan Younis. These included repeated shelling that struck apparent civilian structures, lack of access to necessary medical care, and the threat of attack from Israeli forces as they tried to leave the area.

“When will there be justice for the civilians in Khuza’a, who suffered shelling for days, then faced deadly attacks by Israeli soldiers after being ordered to leave the town?” asked Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East and North Africa director.

Khuza’a, which has a population of about 10,000, was the scene of fighting between Israeli forces and Palestinian armed groups during an Israeli ground offensive in the area on July 23, Israeli news media reported. Israeli forces provided general warnings to Khuza’a residents to leave the area prior to July 21. While the laws of war encourage “advance, effective warnings” of attacks, the failure of civilians to abide by warnings does not make them lawful targets of attack – for obvious reasons, since many people do not flee because of infirmity, fear, lack of a place to go, or any number of other reasons. The remaining presence of such civilians despite a warning to flee cannot be ignored when attacks are carried out, as Israeli forces have done previously.

“Warning families to flee fighting doesn’t make them fair targets just because they’re unable to do so, and deliberately attacking them is a war crime,” Whitson said.

Human Rights Watch investigated several incidents between July 23 and 25 when, local residents said, Israeli forces opened fire on civilians trying to flee Khuza’a, but no Palestinian fighters were present at the time and no firefights were taking place.

On the morning of July 23, Israeli forces ordered a group of about 100 Palestinians in Khuza’a to leave a home in which they had gathered to take shelter, family members said. The first member to leave the house, Shahid al-Najjar, had his hands up but an Israeli soldier shot him in the jaw, seriously injuring him.

Israeli soldiers detained the men and boys over age 15 in an area close to the Gaza perimeter fence. Based on statements from witnesses and news reports, some were taken to Israel for questioning. Israeli forces released others that day, in small separate groups. As one group walked unarmed to Khan Younis, Israeli soldiers fired on them, killing one and wounding two others.

Two older men whom Israeli forces briefly detained near the perimeter fence had been seriously wounded in earlier Israeli bombardments and died soon after being released, two witnesses said. The laws of war provide that wounded civilians and combatants should be given necessary medical care to the fullest extent practicable and with the least possible delay.

(more in the link)

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

As far as I know the ceasefires have never included Israel not dealing with the tunnels.

You call them "fighters" but they were digging tunnels into Israel. That makes them invaders.

Assuming your narrative is true, why would anyone think a ceasefire counts for invading terrorists sitting inside tunnels that were made to attack civilians on the other side?

1.) Israelis are invaders of Palestine, including the land known as Israel today.

2.) These tunnels were on the border of Gaza and Egypt and NOT tunnels that dug into Israel. So does that make Israel invaders to both Egypt and Gaza?

Clearly these tunnels are generally used for medical supplies and food since, you know, Israel has imposed a barbaric blockade on the entire population of Gaza for voting for someone Israel didn't want or expect to win. It's also used to move injured people into Egypt to receive treatment if they can't be treated in Gaza.

3.) A ceasefire means an end to hostilities. That includes bombing any part of Gaza. But why is it okay for IDF to be in Gaza taking part in detonating tunnels but it's not okay for Hamas to capture those IDF members? But this is forgetting the main point. The guy died in battle before the ceasefire so the attack on Rafah was even more unjustified and based on a lie.

4.) How often have Palestinians used any of the tunnels that go into Israel to attack the civilian population? To the contrary, there is a video that shows Hamas' military wing leaving a tunnel to attack an Israeli military target and successfully killing IDF invading terrorists.

 

[Nithavela]

Do you have any evidence that those tunnels are used for carrying medicine, food and injured people, instead of weapons, like Israel alledges, Lovebeingamuslimah?

 

[Zeek]

1.) Israelis are invaders of Palestine, including the land known as Israel today.

No they are not, there has always been a Jewish presence in the area for 3,500+ years and no other group of people ever claimed it as a sovereign State.

2.) These tunnels were on the border of Gaza and Egypt and NOT tunnels that dug into Israel. So does that make Israel invaders to both Egypt and Gaza?

They were probably working in unity with the Egyptian authorities who have themselves destroyed many of the tunnels.

Clearly these tunnels are generally used for medical supplies and food since, you know, Israel has imposed a barbaric blockade on the entire population of Gaza for voting for someone Israel didn't want or expect to win. It's also used to move injured people into Egypt to receive treatment if they can't be treated in Gaza.

Sure, the tunnels are only used for the good of the Gazans...they would never even think of bringing in explosives and rocket parts.

3.) A ceasefire means an end to hostilities. That includes bombing any part of Gaza. But why is it okay for IDF to be in Gaza taking part in detonating tunnels but it's not okay for Hamas to capture those IDF members? But this is forgetting the main point. The guy died in battle before the ceasefire so the attack on Rafah was even more unjustified and based on a lie.

Rafah was still full of Hamas operatives and therefore a legal and justifiable target.

4.) How often have Palestinians used any of the tunnels that go into Israel to attack the civilian population? To the contrary, there is a video that shows Hamas' military wing leaving a tunnel to attack an Israeli military target and successfully killing IDF invading terrorists.

This is utterly naive...if anyone thinks Hamas have a collective conscience and would only target military objectives they are living in fantasy world.
Hamas are cold-blooded ideological Islamic murderers.

 

[Oafman]

This is utterly naive...if anyone thinks Hamas have a collective conscience and would only target military objectives they are living in fantasy world.

Yet your view that the IDF only targets military objectives is not fantasy?!

It's as if Dahiya never happened.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Do you have any evidence that those tunnels are used for carrying medicine, food and injured people, instead of weapons, like Israel alledges, Lovebeingamuslimah?

They definitely do bring in medicine, food, and other things through those tunnels. 2/3's of Gaza's commercial goods are brought in through them.

I'm not saying that they don't bring in weapons through the tunnels; they most certainly do. But I don't think that's the main function of them. The tunnels provide a passageway of basic goods as well as jobs to thousands of Palestinians who are living through this vicious siege. Many young people find this is the only work they can find in the choking-due-to-the-siege economy.

As for the weapons, why shouldn't they be allowed to bring in weapons for their self-defense against those who invaded and occupied their land? We don't have to allege, we know that Israel gets money to make and/or buy sophisticated weapons that kill hordes of people every time they unleash them. Why is it acceptable for Israel to "defend" itself (the occupying entity) but not for the Palestinians (the occupied people)? I honestly do not get how Israel has the audacity to claim self-defense while depriving the Palestinians of theirs.

No they are not, there has always been a Jewish presence in the area for 3,500+ years

....That doesn't mean that the Israelis are not invaders. Also, the indigenous population included Jews and they coexisted just fine with the Muslims.

and no other group of people ever claimed it as a sovereign State.

So you need for another culture to follow the same rules for land ownership as your culture does in order for it to be considered their land?

It was the land of the original inhabitants regardless of what nation they were included in before & were happily a part of.

They were probably working in unity with the Egyptian authorities who have themselves destroyed many of the tunnels.

While I wouldn't put it past the treacherous & illegitimate Egyptian military government to ally themselves with the enemies of their Muslim neighbors, the point remains that this was not Israeli land even according to their own warped standards.

Rafah was still full of Hamas operatives and therefore a legal and justifiable target.

And Israel is full of IDF members (since all adults must enlist), so do you believe that it is also a legal and justifiable target?

Secondly, there was a ceasefire and, last I checked, ceasefire means that there is an end to hostilities for the agreed amount of time. I know Israel does not honor agreements very often, but that does not absolve it of its blame.

This is utterly naive...if anyone thinks Hamas have a collective conscience and would only target military objectives they are living in fantasy world.

We can't know with certainty what they target when it comes to all of their rockets since those rockets are unguided. But I was specifically talking about the tunnels and how someone accused them of being used to target Israeli non-combatants from Israeli land.

Hamas are cold-blooded ideological Islamic murderers.

I think you're mistaking Hamas with IDF since it's the latter that is comprised of cold-blooded, ideological Jewish murderers (and pathological liars). Well, not all of them. Quite a lot of them knew that what they were doing was wrong and are now speaking out against it. An organization called Breaking the Silence is one such group.

 

[South Bound]

They definitely do bring in medicine, food, and other things through those tunnels. 2/3's of Gaza's commercial goods are brought in through them.

I'm not saying that they don't bring in weapons through the tunnels; they most certainly do. But I don't think that's the main function of them. The tunnels provide a passageway of basic goods as well as jobs to thousands of Palestinians who are living through this vicious siege. Many young people find this is the only work they can find in the choking-due-to-the-siege economy.

As for the weapons, why shouldn't they be allowed to bring in weapons for their self-defense against those who invaded and occupied their land? We don't have to allege, we know that Israel gets money to make and/or buy sophisticated weapons that kill hordes of people every time they unleash them. Why is it acceptable for Israel to "defend" itself (the occupying entity) but not for the Palestinians (the occupied people)? I honestly do not get how Israel has the audacity to claim self-defense while depriving the Palestinians of theirs.



....That doesn't mean that the Israelis are not invaders. Also, the indigenous population included Jews and they coexisted just fine with the Muslims.

So you need for another culture to follow the same rules for land ownership as your culture does in order for it to be considered their land?

It was the land of the original inhabitants regardless of what nation they were included in before & were happily a part of.

While I wouldn't put it past the treacherous & illegitimate Egyptian military government to ally themselves with the enemies of their Muslim neighbors, the point remains that this was not Israeli land even according to their own warped standards.

And Israel is full of IDF members (since all adults must enlist), so do you believe that it is also a legal and justifiable target?

Secondly, there was a ceasefire and, last I checked, ceasefire means that there is an end to hostilities for the agreed amount of time. I know Israel does not honor agreements very often, but that does not absolve it of its blame.

We can't know with certainty what they target when it comes to all of their rockets since those rockets are unguided. But I was specifically talking about the tunnels and how someone accused them of being used to target Israeli non-combatants from Israeli land.

I think you're mistaking Hamas with IDF since it's the latter that is comprised of cold-blooded, ideological Jewish murderers (and pathological liars). Well, not all of them. Quite a lot of them knew that what they were doing was wrong and are now speaking out against it. An organization called Breaking the Silence is one such group.

Do the Jews have any rights at all?

 

[keith99]

Then set the example yourself. Care for both sides as much as you think other people should. It's no more Christian to be unsympathetic towards sinners than it is to judge people.

...and if you're not a Christian you can't use a Christian's standards to judge. This world teaches us that people get what's coming to them.

Jesus stepped in front of your bullet and showed sympathy for you... Do you have sympathy for that?

Wow!

Why can't I judge a Christian by their own standards? Far more fair than how Christians tend to judge others.

 

[keith99]

Yeah- NPR talked about Israel's hired internet shills (they are actually notorious for it- but other countries do it too). You can tell when they're all on a news board en masse. For about two hours you'll see a variety of new and newish accounts all posting the same pro-israel talking points- calling for genocide and being racist and hateful- literally cheering for the deaths of innocent kids. Then- the next wave of shills from the other side will come through on the opposite end (though their rhetoric is toned down in comparison). I'm of the opinion that more than half of those types of posts are from hired shills.

Nah. Both sides get an excellent return from their hired shills. Whatever one such says will get echoed hundreds of times.