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Featured The date of great tribulation

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by shilohsfoal, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The war ended in Ad70. What was left of the rebels were on the run and hiding. That's what the losers of a war do. WW2 ended in 1945, but Nazi's were hiding for decades and were pursued. Certain things happening after a war doesn't mean the war was still active.
     
  2. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They didn't see all those things fulfilled so while he spoke to them, he was speaking of a future generation that would read his words and know what to expect.
     
  3. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    Many generations read His words, which one is "this"?

    I think that it makes the best sense when we simply accept that it was all fullfilled in the 1st century.
     
  4. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What he said about the temple was not part of the Olivet discourse. He spoke of the temple before ever arriving on the mount of olives. And if we go to the tribulation passages of Rev there is nothing about the temple or Jerusalem being destroyed. Only at the end of the GT is the city damaged but that's only ten percent and from an Earthquake not Roman soldiers. Paul also wrote that the AC would stand in the temple of God so whether literal or not, the temple isn't physically destroyed as far as the great trib is concerned. The part about the temple being destroyed was a future event but not part of what happens in the GT.
     
  5. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yet the second coming did not happen so that generation didn't see all the things proving their generation was not the one to see all the things Christ described. The fact is they didn't see any of the events of the OD. At best they saw some types and shadows but never the actual fulfillment. Saying all of the events in the OD have happened would be full preterism which teaches these verses happened at that time:

    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
    Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
    Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
    Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
     
  6. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    I think it may be the same thing as:

    And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”
    Mk 9:1

    or:
    "There be some standing here which shall not taste of death till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom"
    Mt 16:28

    or:
    "Brethren, the time is short, it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none."
    1Cor 7:29

    Some people spiritualize it to mean the descend of the Holy Spirit or something like that, but in such a case we can spiritualize also the place you are mentioning.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  7. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's just changing the text from what it says to what someone wants it to say.
     
  8. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    Paul spoke of the temple of God about 7 or 8 times.He never said the temple of God was a built with human hands.
     
  9. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    You can think what you want but there is no proof it did.History just isnt on your side.
     
  10. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yep.

    1Co_3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
     
  11. Chris35

    Chris35 New Member

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    Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
    Matthew 24:34 KJV

    Generation has multiple meanings, one of them is age / time span. I would say most likely refers to the time span the devil / sin rules the world.

    I did some research into it awhile ago.

    1. Current jewish belief, Jesus is not the messiah, therefore they believe they are still under moses law and the old covenant

    2. Under the old covenant, jews require animal sacrafices. Currently they are wanting to build a third temple , and start animal sacrafices again.

    I have no doubt they will start when the time is right.
     
  12. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That covenant is gone so there is no valid purpose to do that. Seems strange why they haven't already tried to build one.
     
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Welcome to the forum, Chris.

    It is in the middle part of the 7 years that the animals sacrifices will stop, shortly followed by the great tribulation.

    The Jews are looking for their messiah, which that person will be the Antichrist.

    What begins the 7 years is that the Antichrist will confirmed the Mt. Sinai covenant (called the old covenant by Christians) for the 7 years that Moses required of all future leaders in Deuteronomy 31:9-13. Basically, it will be big speech the Antichrist makes from the temple mount.

    Can't do it until the Muslims are no longer on the temple mount, because the speech is to say that God gave to the children of Israel the land of Israel as theirs forever.

    There happens to be in Ezekiel 39, a 100% fail proof way of knowing when this will take place, event wise.

    In Ezekiel 39:21-29 is Jesus Himself speaking in the text, having returned to planet earth, and He is recounting in those verses the past 2000 years of why the house of Israel went into exile into the nations.

    Ezekiel 39:17-18 is the dead from Armageddon which Jesus destroys the armies.

    Which that feast by the birds and beasts is at the end of the 7 years following the Gog/Magog event. The Gog/Magog event will remove the muslim presence from the temple mount.
    ________________________________________________________________

    Ezekiel 38-39, a outline walk through, which I explain....

    Israel living in peace right before Gog/Magog, Ezekiel 38:8-12

    Gog/Magog takes place.

    Gog's army destroyed, Ezekiel 39:4

    Prince who shall come, from the EU, enters the middle east

    Burial of the dead, the 7 months that follow Gog's army destruction.

    Israel gets messiah fever, and Prince who shall come anointed the King of Israel, becoming the Antichrist

    The confirming of the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years* by the Antichrist.
    (* as required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, a big speech)

    The burning of the weapons as the 7 years begin, melting them down, swords into plowshares as the Jews believe they have entered the messianic age of peace and safety

    The Antichrist betrays them, and subsequently becomes the beast

    The great tribulation begins in the middle part of 7 years

    At the end of the great tribulation and 7 years, Armageddon, Ezekiel 39:17-20.

    Jesus returned to earth Ezekiel 39:21-29. That it is Jesus Himself speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29 is fixed in concrete.
     
  14. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    If the dome of the rock wasnt there, they probably would have already.Its very possible they will ont construct another building there.
    It never has seemed to help them when they had one.
     
  15. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    I have looked into this. The temple is not going to go where the Dome on the Rock is. That is not the location of the temple. The location is south of that in an area known as "The City of David".
    How fitting that God kept the real site from them.
     
  16. SandwichBoy

    SandwichBoy New Member

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    Oh they didnt see the destruction of the temple then?
     
  17. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Olivet Timing Revealed by Luke’s Gospel:

    Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.


    Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple (These subtitles are found in e-Sword.)


    Luk 21:5  Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 

    Luk 21:6  "These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down." 

    (Mat 24:2  And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." )





    Luk 21:7  So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?" 

    (Mat 24:3  Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?")

    ( Mar 13:3  Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 

    Mar 13:4  "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?") 





    Luk 21:8  And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them. 

    (Mat 24:5  For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. )



    Luk 21:9  But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately."

    (Mat 24:6  And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.) 



    Jesus Foretells Wars and Persecution



    Luk 21:10  Then He said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 

    (Mat 24:7  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )



    Luk 21:11  And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 

    (Mat 24:7  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )



    Luk 21:12  But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake. 

    (Mat 24:9  "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.) (Read Acts 22:19-20, where Paul reveals that he fulfilled this text.)



    Luk 21:13  But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 

    Luk 21:14  Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 

    Luk 21:15  for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 

    Luk 21:16  You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 

    Luk 21:17  And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. 

    (Mat 24:10  And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. )



    Luk 21:18  But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 

    Luk 21:19  By your patience possess your souls. 

    (Mat 24:13  But he who endures to the end shall be saved.) 



    Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem



    Luk 21:20  "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. (See also Luke 19:41-44)

    (Mat 24:15  "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 



    Luk 21:21  Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 

    (Mat 24:16  "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.) 



    Luk 21:22  For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 

    Luk 21:23  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 

    (Mat 24:19  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! ) (See Luke 23:27-31 where Jesus warned the women weeping for Him.)



    Luk 21:24  And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 
    (Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of the verse above is about 70 AD. At the end of the verse we find a period of time known as “the times of the Gentiles”. In the verses that follow we find the future Second Coming of Christ.)


    The Coming of the Son of Man



    Luk 21:25  "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 

    (Mat 24:29  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.) 



    Luk 21:26  men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 

    Luk 21:27  Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 

    (Mat 24:30  Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.) 



    Luk 21:28  Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." 

    (Mat 24:33  So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!)

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::



    From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

    "6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].

    7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies. "


    Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
    Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.


    John 10:22 is a reference to the celebration of Hanukkah each year by the Jews of Jesus time.


    The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Luke’s Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.


    Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the exact same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in the second verse of each Gospel.

    .
     
  18. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    “Tell us, when will these things be

    “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.” (destruction of the temple)

    “See that no one leads you astray. many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. the birth pains. (was taking place then and has been taking place since and will continue until the end)

    34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

    ... are these things that will take place before His coming.

    25 See, I have told you beforehand

    The destruction of the temple was part of "these things"
     
  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    You have to go to Ezekiel 39:21-29. The 7 years are in Ezekiel 39, following Gog/Magog.
     
  20. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Ok, so you want to change the verse to this:

    "34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until part of these things take place."

    To reflect what you want it to say, Right?
     
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