The cure for our lukewarmness...

Gideons300

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The cure for our lukewarmness is the greatest need the church has in this present day. But guys, ot will not fall in our laps. It will not sneak up and overtake us. So what will it take to obtain thisremedy to our grave illness? Tears and some long needed heart- searching honesty. But sadly, both of those are currently missing from our religious repertoire.

What will it take to awken us from our anethesized religious stupor of 25 minute sermons, four songs and a clear view of the back of the head of the saint in front of us? Do we really believe we as the church are here on earth for that? Is this our definition of running our race as if there is but one prize? Is this really how we believe the saints walked out their faith in the book of Acts as they turned the entire world upside down in one single generation? Is this the actions of the bride prepared to meet her husband? Really?

The entire epistles are an exhortation to walking in holiness. They are promise-filled urgings to not let our guard down, to walk soberly, keeping our bodies under, possessing our bodies in holiness and righteousness, to be single minded and single eyed sojourners and pilgrims. And we have not been listening, and have traded the grace that teaches us "that denying worldly lusts, we are to live soberly, righteously and justly" for a grace that tells us not to worry or be "sin conscious", because our reservation is already made for the bus to Heaven.

Over and over, we are urged by the apostles to walk circumspectly, to understand that we have an enemy whose sole goal, if he cannot sway us away from the Lord, is to make sure we are not a threat to others who seek the answer we have been entrusted with. And he is doing a bang up job of it.

The world is rotting around us. And we, for the most part, do not care, unless of course, it affects US. We talk OF Jesus. Our activities at church center AROUND Jesus. But we are supposed to be IN Him, with the old us dead and buried. And our lives, our speech, our thoughts, our actions, the love we possess for Him and each other, they should all joyously exclaim to the lost that we have what they need. But our lives are set on mute, and by and large, the lost do not hear is or pay us any attention.

How many of us have walked with the Lord for years, even decades, and if we are honest, can still not testify with straight faces of amazing changes that we have seen the Lord bring about in us? What sins have been defeated? What fruits have we seen replace our less appealing fleshly characteristics? We are branches only, barren of life giving water to quench the thirt of true seekers.

Has our prayer life grown richer, deeper, as the years past? Do we look forward to time alone with God? Has our love for the Word, not just reading it but longing to obey what God counsels us, increased? Has out burden for souls..... friends, relatives, family.... become larger, or has it waned? Has the world, that we are told not to love, become more important to us than the things of God?

Guys, let's be honest here. Let's leave the excuses at the door. We all know the answers to these questions. We know the answrs to them pertaining to the church as a whole, to our church we are a part of, and we know, as hard as it may be, that in our personal walks, the desire to have Him increase, to truly become our Lord as well as savior, is simply not there. And for the few who truly are seeking a deeper walk, no instruction is goven as to how this may be brought about.

God has warned us, far more than once, that in the last days, there will be a generation of saints who will say all the right things, and yet not have the desire to truly walk in them. They will say to drug addicts and homosexuals, "God can free you!", and yet the secret sins that possess and enslave them have so hardened their hearts that they do not even fight to get freed from their grip any more. Defeat will be accepted as the new definition of overcoming.

Instead of letting the Lord lift us up to the place we can fulfill the standard of walking with pure hearts and clean hands, we have lowered the standard to fit our experience, and because all the others we are surrounded by are doing the same thing, we rest content as we make the promises of God no more than quotable Christian motivtional wall posters.

Saints, we are warned that these children of God, these true saints, will be found asleep at the wheel right before Jeusus returns.They will not be found rowing against the current of evil, and yet not flowing with it, but simply free floating, as if this is God's definition of Christianity. It is not. These people will be healed, yes, but only slightly, and yet amazingly, be found satisfied with having their "form" of Christianity down. We are warned that the lives pf these people will not scream out to the lost that Jesus is real and will change us from worldly sinner to other worldly saint. They will have correct form, but no LIFE.

In the early church, the church that turned the entire world upside down, men outside the church would exclaim "Behold how they love one another!" And today? Today that say "What a bunch of hypocrites, people who say they love God, but have no heart to actually obey Him". And you know what? They are, as much as it pains me to admit, spot on the money.

Why is this? Why are we asleep when we should be wide awake? Why has the church been transformed from red hot and on-fire to just tepid, lilewarm and simply going through the motions, and worse, quite content with that? It is because we no longer believe God's plan is to change us from sinner to a saint freed from its grip. We believe He died for us. We do not believe He lives for us, IN us, transfprming us before the eyes of the skeptics. We have an unspoken but well believed core doctrine that says that we can never truly walk as overcomers of sin, so don't worry about it. After all, we don't want to become sin conscious, right?

We best wake up. The Lord, our Lord, the ones He is addressing in the letter to the Laodecians, loves us. He loves us DESPITE ourselves. He tells us what to do . Hit our knees, admit to Him the sad state of our shallow compromising brand of Christianity, tell Him that the world has bewitched us, admit our hypocrisy, and cry out to Him for the answer as to how to walk in real holiness before Him all the days of our lives.

Of you are reading this, God is giving you a personsl call to believe He can do more, that He keep keep us from the power of darkness that is growing exponentially in this evil world. Will you get more chsnces if you choose to simply click off this challenging exhortation, and go back to what is "safe" and socially acceptable with your Christian friends? Most likely, yes. But one day, without a doubt, that answer will come up NO. And on that day, those who have tried to walk both sides of the fence, by not making a clear cut decision to lay self on the alter, and to be forever His servant, will find to their horror, that, in truth, theor postponement of that decision WAS their decision, and that they were never saved at all.

May God grant us eyes to cry again, hearts to hunger again, and ears to hear what God is sharing with us. The time to awake is now. To those who are truly listening, God will not disappoint, and just like the prodigal found out, our God loves to forgive AND cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness. Faithful is He who calls you, who also will DO iT!

Blessings,

Gideon
 
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Zayin7

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here too i will recommend the book "sound doctrine " by Torban sondergaard -you can get it at their website for free "ebook " version is FREE . you will simply find it voices every sentiment your trying to say :) _(i am NOT its author haha )

no revival happens automatically to many, but as each ONE repents and decides to OBEY God . and when one becomes 2 then 4 then 8.. soon you have thousands upon thousands . but those in the churches who have heard the word for many many many years and have not gone out to be doers of what they hear ,will not suddenly change . some will .praise god ,but the majority "will not to" . they haven't in 20 years ,they are not going to now (i generalize ) they have already shown this by being disobedience for many years already for the most part .they are old wine-skins .
 
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brinny

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The cure for our lukewarmness...

Great thread. What a precious subject. It's good to discuss this and support and encourage and edify each other regarding this very crucial issue.

With that said, the Remedy of course to "luke warm ness" is:

God, my brothers.

God bless us, ev'ry one :groupray:

(By the way, i find your post edifying and quickening to my heart, mind, and spirit, and yes, we all need to be awake and vigilant and alert, and draw ever-closer to our Father so that He can strengthen and sustain us and equip us to be what is necessary in these last days.)

God bless you brother. :)
 
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John Hyperspace

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The cure for our lukewarmness is the greatest need the church has in this present day. But guys, ot will not fall in our laps. It will not sneak up and overtake us. So what will it take to obtain thisremedy to our grave illness? Tears and some long needed heart- searching honesty. But sadly, both of those are currently missing from our religious repertoire.

What will it take to awken us from our anethesized religious stupor of 25 minute sermons, four songs and a clear view of the back of the hesd of the saint in front of us? Do we really believe we as the churchare here on earth for that? Is this really how we believe the saints walked in the book of Acts? Is this the actions of the bride prepared to meet her husband? Really?

The entire epistles are an exhortation to walking in holiness. They are promise-filled urgings to not let our guard down, to walk soberly, possessing our bodies in holiness and righteousness, to be single minded and single eyed sojourners and pilgrims.

Over and over, we are urged by the apostles to walk circumspectly, to understand that we have an enemy whose sole goal, if he cannot sway us away from the Lord, is to make sure we are not a threat to others who seek the answer we have been entrusted with. And he is doing a bang up job of it.

The world is rotting around us. And we, for the most part, do not care, unless of course, it affects us. We talk OF Jesus. Our activities at church center AROUND Jesus. But we are supposed to be IN Him, with the old us dead and buried. And our lives, our speech, our thoughts, our actions, the love we possess for Him and each other, rhey should all scream to the lost that we have what they need. But our lives are set on mute.

How many of us have walked with the Lord for years, even decades, and if we are honest, can testify of amazing changes that we have seen the Lord bring about in us? What sins have been defeated? What fruits have we seen replace our less appealing fleshly characteristics?

Has our prayer life grown richer, deeper, as the years past? Has our love for the Word, not just reading it but longing to obey what God counsels us, increased? Has out burden for souls..... friends, relatives, family.... become larger, or has it waned? Has the world, that we are told not to love, become more important to us than the things of God?

Guys, let's be honest here. Let's leave the excuses at the door. We all know the answers to these questions. We know the answrs to them pertaining to the church as a whole, to our church we are a part of, and we know, as hard as it may be, that in our personal walks, the desire to have Him increase, to truly become our Lord as well as savior, is simply not there.

God has warned us, far mpre than once, that in the last days, there will be a generation of saints who will say all the right things, and yet not have the desire to truly walk in them. They will say to drug addicts and homosexuals, "God can free you!", and yet the secret sins that possess them, have so hardened their hearts that they do not even fight to get freed from their grip any more. Defeat will be accepted as the new definition of overcoming.

Saints, we are warned that these children of God, these true saints, will be found asleep at the wheel right before Jeusus returns.They will not be found rowing against the current of evil, and yet not flowing with it, but simply free floating, as if this is God's definition of Christianity. It is not. These people will be healed, yes, but only slightly, and yet amazingly, be found satisfied with having their "form" of Christianity down. We are warned that the lives pf these people will not scream out to the lost that Jesus is real and will change us from worldly sinner to other worldly saint. They will have correct form, but no LIFE.

In the early church, the church that turned the entire world upside down, men outside the church would exclaim "Behold how they love one another!" And today? Today that say "What a bunch of hypocrites, people who say they love God, but have no heart to actually obey Him". And you know what? They are, as much as it pains me to admit, spot on the money.

Why is this? Why are we asleep when we should be wide awake? Why has the church been transformed from red hot and on-fire to just tepid, lilewarm and simply going through the motions, and worse, quite content with that? It is because we no longer believe God's plan is to change us from sinner to a saint freed from its grip. We believe He died for us. We do not believe He lives for us, IN us, transfprming us before the eyes of the skeptics. We have an unspoken but well believed core doctrine that says that we can never truly walk as overcomers of sin, so don't worry about it. After all, we don't want to become sin conscious, right?

We best wake up. The Lord, our Lord, the ones He is addressing in the letter to the Laodecians, loves us. He loves us DESPITE ourselves. He tells us what to do . Hit our knees, admit to Him the sad state of our shallow compromising brand of Christianity, tell Him that the world has bewitched us, admit our hypocrisy, and cry out to Him for the answer as to how to walk in real holiness before Him all the days of our lives.

Of you are reading this, God is giving you a personsl call to believe He can do more, that He keep keep us from the power of darkness that is growing exponentially in this evil world. Will you get more chsnces if you choose to simply click off this challenging exhortation, and go back to what is "safe" and socially acceptable with your Christian friends? Most likely, yes. But one day, without a doubt, that answer will come up NO. And on that day, those who have tried to walk both sides of the fence, by not making a clear cut decision to lay self on the alter, and to be forever His servant, will find to their horror, that, in truth, theor postponement of that decision WAS their decision, and that they were never saved at all.

May God grant us eyes to cry again, hearts to hunger again, and ears to hear what God is sharing with us. The time to awake is now. To those who are truly listening, God will not disappoint, and just like the prodigal found out, our God loves to forgive AND cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness. Faithful is He who calls you, who also will DO iT!

Blessings,

Gideon

I have a sincere question, and I trust that you will answer with honesty. If you were right now, as you currently are, standing with the men when the adulterous woman was brought into the midst. When Jesus said, "Whoever is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her" would you be able to justifiably cast the first stone? Bear in mind, I'm not asking would you, but I am asking you if you could if you wanted. Are you completely free of sin in every respect?
 
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Nihilist Virus

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American Christians generally are lacking in love, works, and obedience to the teachings of Jesus. They have no discernable characteristics of what a Christian is aside from self-identifying as Christian.

As an atheist I can assure you that if a man saved my life and then made a request of me, I'd honor it regardless of the hardship. At the very least, I would try. Christians believe that Jesus has done quite a bit more than the hypothetical man, and yet Christians do considerably less in return and often do not even try.

And that is something that I will never be able to comprehend.
 
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Zayin7

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I have a sincere question, and I trust that you will answer with honesty. If you were right now, as you currently are, standing with the men when the adulterous woman was brought into the midst. When Jesus said, "Whoever is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her" would you be able to justifiably cast the first stone? Bear in mind, I'm not asking would you, but I am asking you if you could if you wanted. Are you completely free of sin in every respect?
This is a most out of place and rather blatant attack on the Op as I have ever seen .the analogy you use to say he is as those accusers is so off the mark as if it be shot from out of the darkness
 
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Zayin7

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American Christians generally are lacking in love, works, and obedience to the teachings of Jesus. They have no discernable characteristics of what a Christian is aside from self-identifying as Christian.

As an atheist I can assure you that if a man saved my life and then made a request of me, I'd honor it regardless of the hardship. At the very least, I would try. Christians believe that Jesus has done quite a bit more than the hypothetical man, and yet Christians do considerably less in return and often do not even try.

And that is something that I will never be able to comprehend.
This is because they are self professing Christians.
By that I mean they show by their action the truth of what they believe (or don't believe)
The term christian was coined by those at Antioch who were themselves not followers of Christ .but the people they described looked and acted so much like Christ the locals named them Christian.
The disciples of Jesus never called themselves that. Nor should any one unless they go,and do the things Christ did and behave as he behaved. since chritian means likechrist, how dare we take upon ourselves that title unless we are indeed,like him.
Out the hypocrisy that is rife among the religious.
But the sin of another never did never does and never will excuse ones own sin.
Nor are you excused from your rebellion. For all must repent of their own ways and their own thoughts and agree with God ,repent .,be baptised for the remission of your sin and you will receive the Holy Spirit of life.
-this,you know,this ,you thus far refuse to obey,and this is your own witness against you before God in whom you refuse to believe.
 
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Gideons300

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I have a sincere question, and I trust that you will answer with honesty. If you were right now, as you currently are, standing with the men when the adulterous woman was brought into the midst. When Jesus said, "Whoever is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her" would you be able to justifiably cast the first stone? Bear in mind, I'm not asking would you, but I am asking you if you could if you wanted. Are you completely free of sin in every respect?
John, that is a very fair and very logical question. My answer may seem like a tangent to safety but it is not.

There is a vast difference between being "sinless", which I suspect you are aluding to, and being kept from sin, which is what God promises to do for us.

Consider what God tells is in His words of promise:

".... unto Him who is able to keep you from falling..."

... who has delivered is from the power of darkness..."

"God will not allow you to be tempted above that which you are able to bear, but will, with the temptation, may a way of escape, so that you might be able to bear it."

",,, amd above all, taking the shield of faith, which will quench every arrow that satan casts at you."

"Sin shall not have dominion over you."

Greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world."

"If we sin willfully after having received the knowledge of tne truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a fearful looking for of judgment."

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."

We owe the flesh nothing.



John, for thirty eight years, struggling to control my thought life, fighting and failing to control a secret but dominating sin of lust fueled by inappropriate content, I could not even look you in the eye when talking about getting victory over my lower nature. But ten yesrs ago, God miraculously gave me the answer I so needed, the secret I had missed in trying to walk with a pure heart. Since that day, I have tried to share it with any and all who would give ear to such a radically wonderful message.

What was this secret? It is so simple that it boggles my mind that I had not seen it before. It is found in Romans 6. There we are told that there are two things we must know as believers.

1) When Christ died, so did we. Our old self loving, sin driven nature died with Him.

2) When Christ rose up to newness of life, so did we. He gave us brand new natures, natures designed to obey...... and to LOVE doing so!

As wonderful as those two truths are, they will do is no good unless we do the one thing God asks from us. He asks us to perform no "works". He asks is to believe that those two statements are true.

"Bit we do!", men will exclaim. Do we? Do we...... for us? God tells us we must reckon ourselves now dead to sin. Its power over us is broken. He asks us to reckon ourselves alive unto God. The word reckon means to appropriate, and that is what we must do if we are to walk in what God has for us...victory as overcomers of the world, the flesh and the devil.

I had never personalized those triths as MINE. And when I did, out loud, the lights came on on my heart.

Please understand, let's not confuse spiritual maturity with walking with sin under our feet. If we have walked with evil habits for years, fruits need to replace barren branches. But here is the deal. When satan comes tempting, and he meets us with us knowing we are new inside and not destined to fall to his wiles, he finds he has met his match. Lukewarmness is simply sin hardenerd hearts manifesting itself outwardly. We say the same words as before, but our hearts are calloused over. Unbelief chokes out faith. Get free from the lower nature that loves sin and it is guaranteed that life replaces our lukewarmness.

This is not an instantaneous transformation to where bords come and land on our heads, LOL.. Sanctificstion IS progressive. We must grow, bit what must grow? Our faith! Listen. We do not grow from old nature to new nature. Until we, by faith, put off our old man by a radical act of faith, we will never really grow. We can't grow from flesh to spirit. It is impossible.

God tells is that we are to draw near Him.... but HOW are we to draw nesr Him? We are told to draw near Himin full assurance of faith, as those who are alive from the dead!

I will write more later. But in answer to your question, I do not want you to feel this has been a big misdirection. i will answer you plainly, and truthfully. In these ten years, as I have trusted Him to keep me from willful sin, as I have held up my shield of faith, confessing that I, the old sinful me, is dead, as I have believed His amazing promises to keep me from falling back into my old self loving ways, He has done His part in me. What I share is not theory. It works, because our God cannot lie.

I pray you believe me when I I say this not with any prode in the least but in total humility, for by myself, by my attempts to not sin, I would have disobeyed a thousand times over. But our God is that good, and His promises are that sure, that the weakest among us, the most bound as I was, are sire to walk without slipping. What I share works, and is the key to seeing us be transformed from lukewarm shallow believers into overcomers, just as He has promised us.

In the last days, we are told that the saints will overcome satan. And what were the two things that fueled this amazing transformation? One, the precious blood of the Lamb. We have that. All of us. Yes, we have been forgiven. But we have missed the second part. Our faith mist not stop at forgiveness. We are called to now fight our good fight of faith . And what is this fight we are all called upon to wage? What is this missing piece critical to our walking in victory over the world, the flesh and the devil?

It is the words of OUR testimony.

I will write more but off to work.

Be blessed everyone. God is doing something wonderful.....IN us! We are understsnding what our good fight of faith reslly is, and it is a fight we have been destined to win. And what is this fight? It is to believe that it is no longer us that live (the old man) but Christ who now lives in us (the new man). And guess what. We have just enough faith! How sure is this path? So sure that even the weskest among us csn walk there joyfully, with all fears of slipping back into our self loving nature are put to death.

Gideon
 
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Gideons300

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American Christians generally are lacking in love, works, and obedience to the teachings of Jesus. They have no discernable characteristics of what a Christian is aside from self-identifying as Christian.

As an atheist I can assure you that if a man saved my life and then made a request of me, I'd honor it regardless of the hardship. At the very least, I would try. Christians believe that Jesus has done quite a bit more than the hypothetical man, and yet Christians do considerably less in return and often do not even try.

And that is something that I will never be able to comprehend.
Thank you for being a part of this discussion. I can understand your perspective, I truly can. If we are the only Bibles that those who are not Christians read, it is no wonder why so many see the church as hypocrical. If this is what Jesus is pleased with, who wants to follow a God like that?

Bit you see, God knew exactly what would happen after the essence of the gospel wax corrupted after the death of Paul. He did not cause it, but in truth we are seeing it all played out exactly as was foretold.Ang the stoty is not yet complete.

In Ezekiel 36, one of the two places in the old testament that the new covenant and its benefits were foretold, God says this about His children:

"You have blasphemed my holy name wherever you have gone."

Yes, we are guilty as charged, though many do not yet see it. BUT, the story is not finished. God has promised to awaken all in church in these last days, both wheat and tares, those who in their hearts are true children, and those who have been playing church.

And the awakened children will see that how they have lived has given those in the world ammunition to not gove Jesus a second thought. They will look back on how they have lived out their faith in front of the world and truly be ashamed. And our God will hear their repentant hearts and fill us with Him. The blinders will fome off, and we will discover the HOW of walking in pureness, with single eyes and with full devotion to God, just as we have been called.

And what will be the response of the unbelievers? Here is what God said:

"...and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, when I shsll be sanctified (made holy) in you ( the awakened saints) before their very eyes."

There will no longer be a disconnect between what we beliee and how we live. None. And those in the world will exclaim...

"Look! That which bore only briars and thorns has once again become like the garden of Eden".

And on that day, none will have the church to use as an excuse any longer as to why they continue to refuse to submit themselves to the God who loved them without limits.

I pray that on that day, or even before, you respond to the call and follow the one who died so that you might live.

Gideon
 
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Gideons300

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here too i will recommend the book "sound doctrine " by Torban sondergaard -you can get it at their website for free "ebook " version is FREE . you will simply find it voices every sentiment your trying to say :) _(i am NOT its author haha )

no revival happens automatically to many, but as each ONE repents and decides to OBEY God . and when one becomes 2 then 4 then 8.. soon you have thousands upon thousands . but those in the churches who have heard the word for many many many years and have not gone out to be doers of what they hear ,will not suddenly change . some will .praise god ,but the majority "will not to" . they haven't in 20 years ,they are not going to now (i generalize ) they have already shown this by being disobedience for many years already for the most part .they are old wine-skins .
I love your sentiment, and looking at this logically, one would think that is all one has to do. Just obey! Right?

But what we forget is that, as long as we do not have a firm foundation of faith that it is no longer us, but Christ in is who lives, then our decision is nothing more than a choice the fleshly man has made, and the result will be Romans 7. Every time.

How many well meaning saints have once trodden the very road you speak of, only to finally tire of sin still being their master. They find that after the initial excitement has worn off, they still have a divided heart. So rhey try hsrder. And sin more. Eventually, given no understanding of HOW to walk in continual victory, they tske respite back under the mantra the vast majority of the church have fallen under....

I am just a sinner, saved by grace.

And why is this, when thry so wanted to walk pleasing to God in full obedience? Because they are still in the old nature in their minds. They have been convinced that they actions are all tht are needed. Thry have not seen that unril we are stripped of any and all self confidence in ourselves, and come to Jesus for a miracle with NO strength, then ultimately, they are working to keep God's blessings, and if they don't go out and "take it to the streets", they are not good Christians.

The FREE INDEED Jesus spoke of is where our God, indwelling us, actually causes us to walk obediently. Only then will we do the will of God, for we finally have our shields of fsith up that the old us is not dying by our Christian 12 step program, but that he is truly dead.

When men came to Jesus and adked Him what thry should DO that they might work the works of God, His reply is one we today desperately need to hear.

Believe on Him who God has sent.

It is time we stopped preaching to others still wrapped in our graveclothes. It is time we first and foremost believed our God. We are dead. Christ in us reigns and as new men, with shields of faith up agsinst the accusations of the devil, we will then go forth into an unbeloeving world and simply SHINE. The rest will tske care of itself.

Blessings,

Gideon
 
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Nihilist Virus

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Thank you for being a part of this discussion. I can understand your perspective, I truly can. If we are the only Bibles that those who are not Christians read, it is no wonder why so many see the church as hypocrical. If this is what Jesus is pleased with, who wants to follow a God like that?

Bit you see, God knew exactly what would happen after the essence of the gospel wax corrupted after the death of Paul. He did not cause it, but in truth we are seeing it all played out exactly as was foretold.Ang the stoty is not yet complete.

In Ezekiel 36, one of the two places in the old testament that the new covenant and its benefits were foretold, God says this about His children:

"You have blasphemed my holy name wherever you have gone."

Yes, we are guilty as charged, though many do not yet see it. BUT, the story is not finished. God has promised to awaken all in church in these last days, both wheat and tares, those who in their hearts are true children, and those who have been playing church.

And the awakened children will see that how they have lived has given those in the world ammunition to not gove Jesus a second thought. They will look back on how they have lived out their faith in front of the world and truly be ashamed. And our God will hear their repentant hearts and fill us with Him. The blinders will fome off, and we will discover the HOW of walking in pureness, with single eyes and with full devotion to God, just as we have been called.

And what will be the response of the unbelievers? Here is what God said:

"...and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, when I shsll be sanctified (made holy) in you ( the awakened saints) before their very eyes."

There will no longer be a disconnect between what we beliee and how we live. None. And those in the world will exclaim...

"Look! That which bore only briars and thorns has once again become like the garden of Eden".

And on that day, none will have the church to use as an excuse any longer as to why they continue to refuse to submit themselves to the God who loved them without limits.

I pray that on that day, or even before, you respond to the call and follow the one who died so that you might live.

Gideon

I don't want to drive us off topic but I would like to clarify that my apostasy is due purely to the fact that I actually have read the entire Bible. But I would not have become anti-theist were it not for the "Christians" of this world, so in that sense you are correct.
 
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Nihilist Virus

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This is because they are self professing Christians.
By that I mean they show by their action the truth of what they believe (or don't believe)
The term christian was coined by those at Antioch who were themselves not followers of Christ .but the people they described looked and acted so much like Christ the locals named them Christian.
The disciples of Jesus never called themselves that. Nor should any one unless they go,and do the things Christ did and behave as he behaved. since chritian means likechrist, how dare we take upon ourselves that title unless we are indeed,like him.
Out the hypocrisy that is rife among the religious.
But the sin of another never did never does and never will excuse ones own sin.
Nor are you excused from your rebellion. For all must repent of their own ways and their own thoughts and agree with God ,repent .,be baptised for the remission of your sin and you will receive the Holy Spirit of life.
-this,you know,this ,you thus far refuse to obey,and this is your own witness against you before God in whom you refuse to believe.

How do you think a Christian ought to live so as to not be lukewarm? Are you living this life? Would you call yourself a Christian?
 
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Gideons300

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I don't want to drive us off topic but I would like to clarify that my apostasy is due purely to the fact that I actually have read the entire Bible. But I would not have become anti-theist were it not for the "Christians" of this world, so in that sense you are correct.
I am of the opinion that ultimately, each one of us chooses light or darkness. That is our real choice. This life is but a "dressing room", so to speak, where we use the gift of free will that He has given us to make our choice.

We are under the false assumption that we are our own possession, but we are not. Either we are the property of the god of this world, who will soon meet his demise, or, we are servants of the Lord, who bought us out of the hand of a cruel task master.we are told that we are not our own, but at present, we certainly do not live like it.

The problem with our Christianity at present is that we want to be told that we can have Jesus as our savior, but as to Him being our Lord, we want to surrender to Him in small, barely perceptable quantities. It never dawns on us to step back from our lives, and realize that oir surrender to Him as both savior AND Lord, is not actually happening at all, even after many years, even decades.

May I make a suggestion to you. Perhaps you have made a false choice, becoming an "anti-theist" because of how His misled followers have walked, instead of judging Christ on His own life, His own fruits, and His own claims.

You may be an anti-lulewarm christianist,and honestly, for that I truly cannot fault you, but to make a choice against God from the actions of people who have not been shown how to escape their self loving natures, is like saying Rembrandt was a poor painter because of a work you have seen done by an untrained artist copying His work.

The bottom line is, each one of us can use no one else for our excuse. Either we hear what Jesus did to save us from our sins, and a voice deep inside says "Man, I cannot live without that type of loving God", or, we say "I really do not care to follow God, even if every single person in the world following the Lord walked in pure love and kindness."

When the trumpet sounds, and Christ returns to the earth, visibly revealing himself to even the most hardened God hater, will their hearts melt within them, realizing their error? No, they will raise their fists in God's face and seethe and hiss out "We will not have you to reign over us."

For both professing Christian and atheists alike, that question is the settling one. Will we let Christ reign and rule over us, because we know that if we do it, we are sure to mess it up? Or, will we dig in our heels, perhaps go to church as usual, counting on the fact that the blood of Christ covers even the rebellion we cling to in our hearts, and continue to walk as we desire, doing what we think is right and wrong? It is the question of the hour for every soul in church and out, and the answer we give, and that alone,will determine our eternal home.

Gideon
 
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The cure for our lukewarmness is the greatest need the church has in this present day. But guys, ot will not fall in our laps. It will not sneak up and overtake us. So what will it take to obtain thisremedy to our grave illness? Tears and some long needed heart- searching honesty. But sadly, both of those are currently missing from our religious repertoire.

What will it take to awken us from our anethesized religious stupor of 25 minute sermons, four songs and a clear view of the back of the head of the saint in front of us? Do we really believe we as the church are here on earth for that? Is this our definition of running our race as if there is but one prize? Is this really how we believe the saints walked out their faith in the book of Acts as they turned the entire world upside down in one single generation? Is this the actions of the bride prepared to meet her husband? Really?

The entire epistles are an exhortation to walking in holiness. They are promise-filled urgings to not let our guard down, to walk soberly, keeping our bodies under, possessing our bodies in holiness and righteousness, to be single minded and single eyed sojourners and pilgrims. And we have not been listening, and have traded the grace that teaches us "that denying worldly lusts, we are to live soberly, righteously and justly" for a grace that tells us not to worry or be "sin conscious", because our reservation is already made for the bus to Heaven.

Over and over, we are urged by the apostles to walk circumspectly, to understand that we have an enemy whose sole goal, if he cannot sway us away from the Lord, is to make sure we are not a threat to others who seek the answer we have been entrusted with. And he is doing a bang up job of it.

The world is rotting around us. And we, for the most part, do not care, unless of course, it affects US. We talk OF Jesus. Our activities at church center AROUND Jesus. But we are supposed to be IN Him, with the old us dead and buried. And our lives, our speech, our thoughts, our actions, the love we possess for Him and each other, they should all joyously exclaim to the lost that we have what they need. But our lives are set on mute, and by and large, the lost do not hear is or pay us any attention.

How many of us have walked with the Lord for years, even decades, and if we are honest, can still not testify with straight faces of amazing changes that we have seen the Lord bring about in us? What sins have been defeated? What fruits have we seen replace our less appealing fleshly characteristics? We are branches only, barren of life giving water to quench the thirt of true seekers.

Has our prayer life grown richer, deeper, as the years past? Do we look forward to time alone with God? Has our love for the Word, not just reading it but longing to obey what God counsels us, increased? Has out burden for souls..... friends, relatives, family.... become larger, or has it waned? Has the world, that we are told not to love, become more important to us than the things of God?

Guys, let's be honest here. Let's leave the excuses at the door. We all know the answers to these questions. We know the answrs to them pertaining to the church as a whole, to our church we are a part of, and we know, as hard as it may be, that in our personal walks, the desire to have Him increase, to truly become our Lord as well as savior, is simply not there. And for the few who truly are seeking a deeper walk, no instruction is goven as to how this may be brought about.

God has warned us, far more than once, that in the last days, there will be a generation of saints who will say all the right things, and yet not have the desire to truly walk in them. They will say to drug addicts and homosexuals, "God can free you!", and yet the secret sins that possess and enslave them have so hardened their hearts that they do not even fight to get freed from their grip any more. Defeat will be accepted as the new definition of overcoming.

Instead of letting the Lord lift us up to the place we can fulfill the standard of walking with pure hearts and clean hands, we have lowered the standard to fit our experience, and because all the others we are surrounded by are doing the same thing, we rest content as we make the promises of God no more than quotable Christian motivtional wall posters.

Saints, we are warned that these children of God, these true saints, will be found asleep at the wheel right before Jeusus returns.They will not be found rowing against the current of evil, and yet not flowing with it, but simply free floating, as if this is God's definition of Christianity. It is not. These people will be healed, yes, but only slightly, and yet amazingly, be found satisfied with having their "form" of Christianity down. We are warned that the lives pf these people will not scream out to the lost that Jesus is real and will change us from worldly sinner to other worldly saint. They will have correct form, but no LIFE.

In the early church, the church that turned the entire world upside down, men outside the church would exclaim "Behold how they love one another!" And today? Today that say "What a bunch of hypocrites, people who say they love God, but have no heart to actually obey Him". And you know what? They are, as much as it pains me to admit, spot on the money.

Why is this? Why are we asleep when we should be wide awake? Why has the church been transformed from red hot and on-fire to just tepid, lilewarm and simply going through the motions, and worse, quite content with that? It is because we no longer believe God's plan is to change us from sinner to a saint freed from its grip. We believe He died for us. We do not believe He lives for us, IN us, transfprming us before the eyes of the skeptics. We have an unspoken but well believed core doctrine that says that we can never truly walk as overcomers of sin, so don't worry about it. After all, we don't want to become sin conscious, right?

We best wake up. The Lord, our Lord, the ones He is addressing in the letter to the Laodecians, loves us. He loves us DESPITE ourselves. He tells us what to do . Hit our knees, admit to Him the sad state of our shallow compromising brand of Christianity, tell Him that the world has bewitched us, admit our hypocrisy, and cry out to Him for the answer as to how to walk in real holiness before Him all the days of our lives.

Of you are reading this, God is giving you a personsl call to believe He can do more, that He keep keep us from the power of darkness that is growing exponentially in this evil world. Will you get more chsnces if you choose to simply click off this challenging exhortation, and go back to what is "safe" and socially acceptable with your Christian friends? Most likely, yes. But one day, without a doubt, that answer will come up NO. And on that day, those who have tried to walk both sides of the fence, by not making a clear cut decision to lay self on the alter, and to be forever His servant, will find to their horror, that, in truth, theor postponement of that decision WAS their decision, and that they were never saved at all.

May God grant us eyes to cry again, hearts to hunger again, and ears to hear what God is sharing with us. The time to awake is now. To those who are truly listening, God will not disappoint, and just like the prodigal found out, our God loves to forgive AND cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness. Faithful is He who calls you, who also will DO iT!

Blessings,

Gideon

The fact that you have written this post means that you are definitely not a lukewarm Christian. You demonstrate a passion for Christ and dissatisfaction with what you see in our churches, and a strong desire to have your experience of God and that of those around you enhanced so that the Holy Spirit is able to move more freely in your ministry and in the church you fellowship with. I think that what you have written is a challenge and encouragement for all Christians, and I am sure that the silent majority of forum members will read this and be lifted up by it, even though they may not include themselves in the responses to the post.
 
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Zayin7

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How do you think a Christian ought to live so as to not be lukewarm? Are you living this life? Would you call yourself a Christian?
No,I refer to myself as a disciple of JESUS.one who is a student learning to become like his master.we go out we heal the sick ,preach the good news of Jesus,drive out devils,baptised people ,see them baptise in the Holy Spirit evidenced by tongues ,then we teach them to do the same.
I would hope one day when we learn to do it very well others maY call me "christlike".

But none of this changes your own responsibility to repent from "your own ways" in order to be saved.
 
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I love your sentiment, and looking at this logically, one would think that is all one has to do. Just obey! Right?

But what we forget is that, as long as we do not have a firm foundation of faith that it is no longer us, but Christ in is who lives, then our decision is nothing more than a choice the fleshly man has made, and the result will be Romans 7. Every time.

How many well meaning saints have once trodden the very road you speak of, only to finally tire of sin still being their master. They find that after the initial excitement has worn off, they still have a divided heart. So rhey try hsrder. And sin more. Eventually, given no understanding of HOW to walk in continual victory, they tske respite back under the mantra the vast majority of the church have fallen under....

I am just a sinner, saved by grace.

And why is this, when thry so wanted to walk pleasing to God in full obedience? Because they are still in the old nature in their minds. They have been convinced that they actions are all tht are needed. Thry have not seen that unril we are stripped of any and all self confidence in ourselves, and come to Jesus for a miracle with NO strength, then ultimately, they are working to keep God's blessings, and if they don't go out and "take it to the streets", they are not good Christians.

The FREE INDEED Jesus spoke of is where our God, indwelling us, actually causes us to walk obediently. Only then will we do the will of God, for we finally have our shields of fsith up that the old us is not dying by our Christian 12 step program, but that he is truly dead.

When men came to Jesus and adked Him what thry should DO that they might work the works of God, His reply is one we today desperately need to hear.

Believe on Him who God has sent.

It is time we stopped preaching to others still wrapped in our graveclothes. It is time we first and foremost believed our God. We are dead. Christ in us reigns and as new men, with shields of faith up agsinst the accusations of the devil, we will then go forth into an unbeloeving world and simply SHINE. The rest will tske care of itself.

Blessings,

Gideon
No one who truly obeys does so from the flesh for it is only those born again of water And spirit who go on to not walk in disobedience .
John states those who continue to practice sin (it's sin we know is sin)do not love God do not even know God. They are not yet born of the spirit.they are still in the flesh.
 
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I have a sincere question, and I trust that you will answer with honesty. If you were right now, as you currently are, standing with the men when the adulterous woman was brought into the midst. When Jesus said, "Whoever is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her" would you be able to justifiably cast the first stone? Bear in mind, I'm not asking would you, but I am asking you if you could if you wanted. Are you completely free of sin in every respect?

I respect what you are saying here, but I do want to make a point: No one is going to be completely free of sin until we are transformed when Jesus comes again. We will always grapple with temptation and the "thorns in our flesh". For many, that stops them from having the confidence in Christ that they need to do His will and have complete trust that God loves them and is happy to have the Holy Spirit working with them. It is this sin consciousness that hinders so many. They believe that because they are not sinlessly perfect that they have no right to speak up for Christ and challenge the Church to throw off its lukewarmness and press into the things of the Spirit. I have written a book about where we stand with Christ and how to beat sin consciousness. It has all to do with knowing that because we are born again believers, all our sin, past present and future has been placed on Christ when He died on the cross, and we have been clothed with the righteousness of Christ, so that we can stand before and work with God without any sense of guilt, shame, or inferiority.

Of course, because of the great debt that Christ has paid for us, we are not judgmental in our attitude to others whom we think are not as passionate for Christ as we are, but we present Christ to them as a loving a supportive Saviour, and encourage them to become passionate for Him.
 
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American Christians generally are lacking in love, works, and obedience to the teachings of Jesus. They have no discernable characteristics of what a Christian is aside from self-identifying as Christian.

As an atheist I can assure you that if a man saved my life and then made a request of me, I'd honor it regardless of the hardship. At the very least, I would try. Christians believe that Jesus has done quite a bit more than the hypothetical man, and yet Christians do considerably less in return and often do not even try.

And that is something that I will never be able to comprehend.

I understand and respect your position because sadly the Church has not been able to show you convincingly that God is real and alive, and that Jesus actually rose from the dead and is alive today, influencing the lives of people in very meaningful ways.

What convinced the pagan world of the
First Century AD and overturned the Roman Empire, was that the original Apostles and believers had miraculous signs and wonders accompanying the gospel they preached. When Philip went to the Samaritans to preach the gospel to them, it was only when they saw the miraculous healings and people being set free form demon influence, that they gave heed to his teaching about the gospel. I reckon that if there were not miracles, then all he would have had to offer were just words, just like most churches today.

The fact that you have posted here shows that you could have second thoughts if you saw something that convinced you that God is real. It is sad that in most cases, the Church is unable to do that, and until it is able to show by signs, wonders, and miracles, accompanying the preaching of the gospel, Athiests will continue as they are, and who can blame them when all they can see is a powerless, word-based religion that cannot prove what it asserts?

I think that church-based people who read this post should take a lesson in this.
 
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This is a most out of place and rather blatant attack on the Op as I have ever seen .the analogy you use to say he is as those accusers is so off the mark as if it be shot from out of the darkness

Read my answer. Kick the ball and not the player. He has brought up and good question and I have answered it. Sin consciousness is a big problem in our churches and is a definite hindrance to the effective working of the Holy Spirit and the ability of believers to exercise the faith needed to increase their passion and experience in God.
 
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Gideons300

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The fact that you have written this post means that you are definitely not a lukewarm Christian. You demonstrate a passion for Christ and dissatisfaction with what you see in our churches, and a strong desire to have your experience of God and that of those around you enhanced so that the Holy Spirit is able to move more freely in your ministry and in the church you fellowship with. I think that what you have written is a challenge and encouragement for all Christians, and I am sure that the silent majority of forum members will read this and be lifted up by it, even though they may not include themselves in the responses to the post.
Thank you for your kind response Oscar. If I was looking at our current situation in the world with eyes of logic and man's reasoning, and the task at hand of seeing the true Christians found throughout all 500 denominations awakened to who they are in Christ and to discover how to walk pleasing to God all day, every day, I would be overwhelmed by the need and by the blindness that has befallen us.

But praise God, it is His task to awaken us, and He has assured us that all will awake. Not all will respond once awakened, but all will have a clear choice. I am just a voice with a testimony, nothing more, but the glorious truths God has asked me and others to share will rock our worlds if we can admit we need them rocked. You have a good heart Oscar. Thank you for your presence and input here.

Blessings,

Gids
 
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