The culture of saying everyone is toxic

[Sparagmos]

I try to meet 1-2 per week, sometimes well just have a random fun night. And what I'm talking about is a clear division, you can have friends who you see at church but perhaps schedules get in the way, but what I'm referring to is more the cutoff entirely, where you no longer speak to that person at church, when no attempt has been made to discuss, restore, and lead to repentance..because that is divison, and it is sin. Again, if the attempt to restore has been made biblically, then I have no issue with the cutoff.

If you are only spending time with 1 or 2 friends a week, than there are a LOT of believers that you know that you aren’t endeavoring to be friends with. This seems to contradict what you said to la Bella in post 4. You admonished her for selfishly choosing which people she spent time with, and yet you yourself are choosing to be friends to a small number of fellow Christians.

 

[quintessentialramble]

If you are only spending time with 1 or 2 friends a week, than there are a LOT of believers that you know that you aren’t endeavoring to be friends with. This seems to contradict what you said to la Bella in post 4. You admonished her for selfishly choosing which people she spent time with, and yet you yourself are choosing to be friends to a small number of fellow Christians.

I didn't say these were the same people. I say by default...anyone who does the will of God is a brother, the will of God is your sanctification; Sanctification is evidenced by your growing in spiritual maturity. Jesus called anyone who did the will of the Father a brother and a friend; he chose his friends on the basis of their devotion to God in Jesus Christ. The problem here is this: Obviously there are time constraints; if I could meet with every believer every second of the day, I would--unfortunately (or fortunately depending on the way you look at it) I am not omnipotent and omnipresent like God. Second; Just because I don't hang out with a person for a week, doesn't mean we aren't friends. There are things such as priority---I would never admonish a brother for choosing his family time over me. As I've said, my issue is not in the absence of close proximity; but in the direct and clear cutoff of a person from your life entirely without Scriptural reason. This would be better known as unforgiveness, and in some cases hatred, and it is very clear division, and the Bible calls it sin. If that person who is "toxic" were to be addressed, shown his "toxic behavior" aka sin, and he refused to repent--then ok. But if that hasn't happened, then it is not ok. My issue with those who cling to the theology of "toxic behavior" have labeled anything that doesn't make them happy as "toxic." And that is not the same teaching as the Bible.
If we're talking about people who have moved away due to a job or what have you...that is not division; AND, even in this case, we see the apostles praying for the believers they no longer associate with, in a constant and consistent manner. This is one area where I could certainly do better.
I admonish not because she chooses friends but because she has labeled people toxic with no effort to forgive and reconcile--and this is not the Bible. We are not called to friendly love that pleases us, no:
32“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34If you lend to those from whom you hope to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35But love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful." -- Luke 6:32-36

 

[bèlla]

This seems to contradict what you said to la Bella in post 4. You admonished her for selfishly choosing which people she spent time with, and yet you yourself are choosing to be friends to a small number of fellow Christians.

I honestly don’t understand his issue. I never mentioned believers, discarding a friend, or use the term myself. I have healthy friendships and I guess that’s a problem.

 

[bèlla]

I typically dont really mention the works I do, I simply let my life be the example.

We aren’t privy to that in this realm. I don’t need a rundown of your activities. But when you’re impressing a position as you’ve done and admonishing slivers of information you’ve read. I’d like to understand your perspective.

I never mentioned Christians or broken connections. I have prayerfully created a network of like-minded people who share my interests and season in life.

I think that’s true for most; prayer aside. Sharing your time with others with common interests is normal. Why its warranted your reaction is a mystery.

You’ve taken an interest in my affairs. But it bears no relation to your OP.

 

[quintessentialramble]

I honestly don’t understand his issue. I never mentioned believers, discarding a friend, or use the term myself. I have healthy friendships and I guess that’s a problem.

You asked me how may discarded believers I have befriended in an earlier post--that's why i responded to that.
While you don't use the word toxic--the dilemma comes from your first reply--where you say people cross, and I want to stress this "YOUR" boundaries. This is essentially where the word Toxic came from--it's all mental health related (See Henry Cloud). Now, for the record, I understand there's a very slippery slope here when we're dealing with topics of sexual harassment/rape, etc--I get that--and I wouldn't advise befriending that person--but if those were the actions of a person--I would not consider them Christian--because the Bible says we know brothers by their fruit, we know them by their deeds, not because they call themselves a Christian. In this particular case I would have no issue with a person being cut off--because they are not doing the will of our Father in Heaven, and are clearly unrepentant--and shouldn't be considered a brother.

But when we're referencing someone who you've been going to church with for years, and there hasn't been any blatant horrible sin; perhaps you just find that person annoying; or perhaps he swore on time, or told a joke you didn't like one time--and you make no effort to talk it out, and you cut that person off---That's more what I'm getting at--and I see it happen all the time---and it always because people have labeled that person as toxic.

The other issue is that people who call others toxic, will never admit that they are also toxic. Toxic is just another word for sin--and we are all sinful. No one is righteous; we all fall short of the glory of God.

And why do we insist on saying we are "healthy." When we have deemed ourselves healthy, that's when we've completely missed the point.
"It is not the HEALTHY that need a doctor--it is the SICK." When we believe we don't need help...that's the most wrong we could ever be with God.

 

[Dave-W]

But I've worked with Rescue Mission, often pray with the poor, worked with a company called loaves and fishes (basically a soup kitchen), also worked with the mental health ward after having been in one. (This may explain my stance btw, as my former pastor and his family directly told me i was barely tolerable and cut ties with me, which triggered schizophrenic bipolar for the first time in me, as they disregarded every members questioning when I left).

I'm also very active in breaking down barriers in communication regarding foreign languages, and am very much against the wall, so am often talking to Mexicans in Texas. I'm hoping to find a ministry or job that would allow me to explore that further.

That was exactly the kind of self-promotion the congregation I attended in college said was evil and sinful.

 

[bèlla]

You asked me how may discarded believers I have befriended in an earlier post--that's why i responded to that.

I asked that. This wasn’t what I was referencing.

While you don't use the word toxic--the dilemma comes from your first reply--where you say people cross, and I want to stress this "YOUR" boundaries. This is essentially where the word Toxic came from--it's all mental health related (See Henry Cloud).

The lone dilemma in that scenario is your inference. If I wanted to use the word I would have done so.

If memory serves, there’s someone on the site who takes issue with Henry Cloud and his teachings. Are you that person?

While you don't use the word toxic--the dilemma comes from your first reply--where you say people cross, and I want to stress this "YOUR" boundaries. This is essentially where the word Toxic came from--it's all mental health related (See Henry Cloud).

Now, for the record, I understand there's a very slippery slope here when we're dealing with topics of sexual harassment/rape, etc--I get that--and I wouldn't advise befriending that person--but if those were the actions of a person--I would not consider them Christian--because the Bible says we know brothers by their fruit, we know them by their deeds, not because they call themselves a Christian. In this particular case I would have no issue with a person being cut off--because they are not doing the will of our Father in Heaven, and are clearly unrepentant--and shouldn't be considered a brother.

You have fabricated a scenario in your mind to support your perspective. And what’s craziest of all, is your inability to recognize you’ve made the whole thing up.

You are arguing against a position and exposition that you created. You’ve determined my intentions, developed a scene that does not exist, and provided instruction and correction.

You’ve gotten carried away. Perhaps my comment struck a nerve. But reasoning could never make the leaps you’ve taken in this discussion. You are arguing with yourself!

That’s unhealthy and toxic if allowed to run amok.

 

[quintessentialramble]

I asked that. This wasn’t what I was referencing.



The lone dilemma in that scenario is your inference. If I wanted to use the word I would have done so.

If memory serves, there’s someone on the site who takes issue with Henry Cloud and his teachings. Are you that person?





You have fabricated a scenario in your mind to support your perspective. And what’s craziest of all, is your inability to recognize you’ve made the whole thing up.

You are arguing against a position and exposition that you created. You’ve determined my intentions, developed a scene that does not exist, and provided instruction and correction.

You’ve gotten carried away. Perhaps my comment struck a nerve. But reasoning could never make the leaps you’ve taken in this discussion. You are arguing with yourself!

That’s unhealthy and toxic if allowed to run amok.

I'm not suggesting you're engaged in this--I'm merely providing an example for my viewpoint; my terminology int terms of using first person/third person etc could be better I admit; this is how I was trained to speak though in terms of we, you, I...perhaps I could do better...but again, not suggesting you are engaged in any of this behavior; only pointing out the example that are given to me of toxic behavior and reasons people create boundaries.

 

[Tanj]

I don't have a problem with you posting your opinion here; I was more or less worried that your post could have been taken offensively in what seems like a rather tense or controversial discussion.

LaBella rated it funny and commented back in a positive way. Does that ease your worries? She seems to be a self confident individual, if offense had been caused I am sure she would not have been backward about coming forward, perhaps in future leap to the defense of people that indicate it is needed first.

 

[bèlla]

I'm not suggesting you're engaged in this--I'm merely providing an example for my viewpoint;

This is what you said to me. I am the lone person you’ve addressed this way in the thread.

“This shows me that your love is rooted in self-interest, and not agape, unselfish, sacrifical love. It sounds like you love if it pleases you. This was never love.”

How do you explain that comment?

I admit; this is how I was trained to speak though in terms of we, you, I...perhaps I could do better...but again, not suggesting you are engaged in any of this behavior; only pointing out the example that are given to me of toxic behavior and reasons people create boundaries.

The bible is filled with boundaries. The Ten Commandments are boundaries. As is Christ’s instruction on divorce. There are multiple instances when we’re told we cannot cross a line. And its for our benefit.

When you love and respect the other person you don’t trespass their boundaries or bemoan their existence. You accept that some behaviors are inappropriate.

Brandishing the scripture like a sword won’t win friends. You’ll appear legalistic and unloving. If the topic is upsetting the way forward is through prayer, healing, and deliverance. Acting out unpleasant reminders only causes greater hurt and rejection. That isn’t the abundant life Christ had in mind.

 

[quintessentialramble]

The Bible has what's called "sin." 99% of the time boundaries are taken with self interest. For example, "my" boundaries, "your" boundaries "their" boundaries. When we discuss "boundaries" we lessen the impact of sin. Just because one person crosses YOUR boundary doesnt make the crosser sinful, because what if the boundary is sinful? Certainly there are things God commands us not to do, things that would be sin. My main issue is that in every defense you have justified your stance based on your feelings and what "God laid on your heart" but have only used one Scripture to present your case. To me, it appears your "boundaries" are based on your feelings and not the Word of God.

 

[Rajni]

The Bible has what's called "sin." 99% of the time boundaries are taken with self interest. For example, "my" boundaries, "your" boundaries "their" boundaries. When we discuss "boundaries" we lessen the impact of sin. Just because one person crosses YOUR boundary doesnt make the crosser sinful, because what if the boundary is sinful? Certainly there are things God commands us not to do, things that would be sin. My main issue is that in every defense you have justified your stance based on your feelings and what "God laid on your heart" but have only used one Scripture to present your case. To me, it appears your "boundaries" are based on your feelings and not the Word of God.

Problem is, "sin", "word of God", and "scripture" are all terms that can be spun in various directions depending on the individual, the individual's religion, denomination, etc.

I wouldn't assume for a single minute that there aren't those who would use religion as an excuse to storm through others' boundaries.

 

[SkyWriting]

Let's talk about this word "toxic" that my friends love to use. I hear this from Christians and non-Christians alike. Whenever it's used, it's typically used to justify why you cut somebody out of your life, because they upset you, they annoyed you, they didn't live up to YOUR standards. But what's really going on here? What's really going on here is two very important things.
1. You fully recognize the toxicity in other people--and you're not wrong. They are toxic.
But ask yourself. Have I been toxic? Have I failed to live up to a standard? We readily outcast others for the very same things we ourselves commit. This story is nothing new. I'll get to that in a second.
2. We use this word toxic because we don't want to use the word sin. Because if we use the word toxic, then it's not about judgment, and it's also not about restoration or repentance--it's about self-righteousness.
Back to that story I mentioned.
9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[a] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Some people will blame others claiming they see "toxins" around them.
Grownups can deal with conditions that are uncomfortable to them.

 

[Sparagmos]

. The problem here is this: Obviously there are time constraints; if I could meet with every believer every second of the day, I would--unfortunately (or fortunately depending on the way you look at it

why look - boundaries!

If that person who is "toxic" were to be addressed, shown his "toxic behavior" aka sin, and he refused to repent--then ok. But if that hasn't happened, then it is not ok.

. Generally speaking, if you are calling someone toxic you or others have already tried to reason or work things out with them. It’s also not my place to go around telling people they are sinning. Toxic means poisonous. If I can see that someone is poisonous, i want to avoid them so that they don’t poison my life. I’m going to stay away and I have no biblical obligation to be their friend.

I admonish not because she chooses friends but because she has labeled people toxic with no effort to forgive and reconcile

. You are slandering la Bella with this statement. She did not say anything of the sort.

 

[RDKirk]

That’s the buzzword for 2019 along with race. Last year was privilege and SJW.

Oh, all those words are still in full use. None of them are out of fashion.

Also, "virtue signalling," which is what the Pharisees were notorious for, and is usually the case of people using the word "toxic."

 

[bèlla]

Just because one person crosses YOUR boundary doesnt make the crosser sinful, because what if the boundary is sinful?

I never mentioned sin at all.

My main issue is that in every defense you have justified your stance based on your feelings and what "God laid on your heart" but have only used one Scripture to present your case. To me, it appears your "boundaries" are based on your feelings and not the Word of God.

Your main issue is your dislike of boundaries. It has nothing to do with anything I’ve said.

 

[ChicanaRose]

If memory serves, there’s someone on the site who takes issue with Henry Cloud and his teachings. Are you that person?

I think he is:
What do Calvinists think of Henry Cloud's theology?

 

[ChicanaRose]

But when we're referencing someone who you've been going to church with for years, and there hasn't been any blatant horrible sin; perhaps you just find that person annoying; or perhaps he swore on time, or told a joke you didn't like one time--and you make no effort to talk it out, and you cut that person off---That's more what I'm getting at--and I see it happen all the time---and it always because people have labeled that person as toxic.

Were you ever labelled as toxic and cut off? If not, perhaps you could empathize with those who do not label people toxic for the slightest reasons but only after a careful examination of behavioral patterns over time.