The "cultural ghetto" in Orthodoxy

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howdydave

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Is it possible to carry on an objective conversation with a person who has the "cultural ghetto mindset"?

i.e.; That's not the way we did it in Greece/Serbia/Ukraine/Russia/whatever so it can't be truely Orthodox!"

Many of them tend to get very "agitated" when I talk about things that are not in their own personal cultural heratige. I'm just wondering whether "Silence is the best policy" might be the best strategy in spite of the fact that these people can teach me volumes.
 
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xenia

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Well.... I love those people because they have been faithful to Orthodoxy for centuries and generations and it's not for me to attempt to correct them BUT for me, I had to regretfully leave an ethnic parish for a more "American" parish because to be honest, they were driving me crazy! I won't say what ethnic group it was, but they seemed to expect me to abandon my American-ness and embrace all their cultural practices, especially their food, which admittedly was quite delicious but not my native diet! Man, sometimes I just wanted to eat a cheeseburger in their presence without a lecture!
 
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Michael G

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Well.... I love those people because they have been faithful to Orthodoxy for centuries and generations and it's not for me to attempt to correct them BUT for me, I had to regretfully leave an ethnic parish for a more "American" parish because to be honest, they were driving me crazy! I won't say what ethnic group it was, but they seemed to expect me to abandon my American-ness and embrace all their cultural practices, especially their food, which admittedly was quite delicious but not my native diet! Man, sometimes I just wanted to eat a cheeseburger in their presence without a lecture!

You should have seen the reaction of the Lebanese lady at the Antiochian parish here in Pittsburgh when I told her that I like fatyers (meat pies) made with barbeque sauce in them! You would thought I had yelled a four letter word by her reaction!
 
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xenia

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I know one very sad story about a family who converted to Orthodoxy. They attended an ethnic church. The people at coffee hour made a pact among themselves not to speak any English to this couple. Naturally, the family left the church and ultimately left Orthodoxy.
 
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ArmyMatt

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yeah, I haven't met many hostile people that are tie to their ethnicity. although it was kinda funny for me when I went to Florida, which has a large Greek population. I was the obvious outsider and many asked me what Greek parish I went to, so I told them I was American Orthodox. the conversation kinda went like this:

Person: so what Greek Church do you go to?
Me: um, I go to an American parish
Person: wow, what's that like?
Me: pretty much the same as yours, except in English
Person: man, I wonder what that would be like?
Me: well, you know the part where the deacon comes out and says Kyrie eleison?
Person (excited): yeah...?
Me: well, we say Lord have mercy.

okay, that might not be as funny as I thought, but we had a good laugh
 
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HandmaidenOfGod

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Is it possible to carry on an objective conversation with a person who has the "cultural ghetto mindset"?

i.e.; That's not the way we did it in Greece/Serbia/Ukraine/Russia/whatever so it can't be truely Orthodox!"

Many of them tend to get very "agitated" when I talk about things that are not in their own personal cultural heratige. I'm just wondering whether "Silence is the best policy" might be the best strategy in spite of the fact that these people can teach me volumes.

Depends what they are talking about...

Things like pews and organs are American innovations that go against the canons and teachings of the Church, so they would be correct. If they are saying that using English over ____ language is wrong, that is incorrect.
 
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howdydave

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As I've said (more than once) I'm thinking about joining New Skete.

One lady at my church said:
"They can't be real monks... they eat meat!"

I only shudder to think what sort of reaction I would have gotten if I had told her that they also sell meat. They used to smoke it themselves (maybe even butcher it too) until it became economically unfeasible.

Of course -- New Skete is a unique entity unto itself.
 
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Andrew21091

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If they are saying that using English over ____ language is wrong, that is incorrect.

If you hear something like that, just bring up Sts. Cyril and Methodios and St. Innocent who preached to the people using the native language of the area they were missionizing.

As I've said (more than once) I'm thinking about joining New Skete.

One lady at my church said:
"They can't be real monks... they eat meat!"

I only shudder to think what sort of reaction I would have gotten if I had told her that they also sell meat (they used to smoke it themselves too until it became economically unfeasible.)

New Skete doesn't really have anything to do with ethnic divisions. I'm a convert and I have huge problems with a lot that goes on at New Skete. So you won't just hear woes about New Skete from ethnic Orthodox people.
 
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MariaRegina

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If you hear something like that, just bring up Sts. Cyril and Methodios and St. Innocent who preached to the people using the native language of the area they were missionizing.

Yeah for our great Linguists.

Oh ye holy Linguists of God, pray to God for us.
 
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howdydave

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New Skete doesn't really have anything to do with ethnic divisions. I'm a convert and I have huge problems with a lot that goes on at New Skete. So you won't just hear woes about New Skete from ethnic Orthodox people.

Yup...

I've got no problem with people calling me a: "Convert hippie radical"...

When I ask those who have expressed the loudest displeasure whether they have ever been to New Skete and seen what is going on for themselves, the answer has always been "No."
 
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Andrew21091

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Yup...

I've got no problem with people calling me a: "Convert hippie radical"...

When I ask those who have expressed the loudest displeasure whether they have ever been to New Skete and seen what is going on for themselves, the answer has always been "No."

I know, I will admit that I've never been to New Skete. But I don't think I would want to go. Just the fact that they celebrate Catholic feasts, they have a Pope and Mother Teresa's iconographic portraits on the wall of the church (among others), they eat meat, they don't dress like monks/nuns, they are very ecumenistic, etc. These things are very worrisome to me. I'm going to stop there since I don't want to derail the thread.

Forgive me if I caused you any offense.
 
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howdydave

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what happened to the old skete?

It's still out there in the desert in Egypt.

It is named not after a type of monastery, but after the original location
The monastery of Petra (famous for St. Moses the Black) was in the desert of Skete, Egypt.
 
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howdydave

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Forgive me if I caused you any offense.
Howdy Andrew!

Doesn't bother me...
That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger!

I was looking for a smiley with a black eye but I couldn't find one! :D

The icons of people who are not Orthodox saints in Holy Wisdom Church don't have halos. :holy:
 
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Andrew21091

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It's still out there in the desert in Egypt.

It is named not after a type of monastery, but after the original location
The monastery of Petra (famous for St. Moses the Black) was in the desert of Skete, Egypt.

The name Scetis (where you get Skete from) is the Greek name for the area known as Wadi El Natrun in Egypt which was where hundreds of hermits lived and many monasteries were established and it was the center of Egyptian monasticism. It is home to four of the major Coptic monasteries of St. Macarius, St. Bishoy, El Baramos, and the Syrian Monastery. There used to be more monasteries in the region but as you can guess, the Muslims destroyed most of them.
 
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Michael G

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I know one very sad story about a family who converted to Orthodoxy. They attended an ethnic church. The people at coffee hour made a pact among themselves not to speak any English to this couple. Naturally, the family left the church and ultimately left Orthodoxy.

That is very sad.
 
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E.C.

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Ya know, there is this one lady in our parish who came from the Greek parish five-ten miles away. I believe she had a dispute with the new priest or something and jumped ship to us. Anyway, we had a banquet last month for one of our priests who has been in the priesthood for 25 years. Obviously this mean Bishop BENJAMIN (OCA) was in town. The banquet was on a Saturday and His Grace stayed with us for a Hierarchical Liturgy the next day.

During that Coffee Hour, I overheard this Greek lady speaking with the bishop. Apparently when she was growing up she was taught that one does not eat meat on Saturday as a way to prepare for Communion. She noticed at the banquet the day before that a number of people, most, were eating meat and still received Communion the next day (A witch! A witch! Burn her! Burn her!) and wondered "hey, what's up?" His Grace explained that the different cultures have different customs that they do. The Greeks abstain from meat the day before receiving Communion and the Serbs, "who receive Communion mostly only on Christmas and Pascha", will typically abstain from meat for a whole week if they receive Communion at any other time of year. And apparently American Orthodoxy tends to A) receive Communion frequently and B) not abstain from meat the day before, but abstain from all food on Sunday from midnight until after Liturgy.
She then asked "well, what do I do?" He said to honor her parents and to keep abstaining from meat on Saturdays as that is how she had been doing so her whole life and it would not make sense to change that and not to worry about the rest of the parish because, well, that is a matter between them, their spiritual father and God. She received a blessing and went on her merry way.

The point of all this is that sometimes it is best for a respected authority sort of person to say something especially if they happen to know the various traditions and customs behind things. I have to give this one particular lady kudos for not making a big stink of things and some older ladies are notorious for doing at times.

If you hear something like that, just bring up Sts. Cyril and Methodios and St. Innocent who preached to the people using the native language of the area they were missionizing.
Fun fact: when rumors of selling Alaska were floating around the Russian Empire, St. Innocent wrote to the Emperor and the Holy Synod advocating that if Alaska is going to be sold to the Americans than they must recall all their clergy and send priests and others who know English so that Orthodoxy may be given to the Americans :)
 
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Michael G

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I know, I will admit that I've never been to New Skete. But I don't think I would want to go. Just the fact that they celebrate Catholic feasts, they have a Pope and Mother Teresa's iconographic portraits on the wall of the church (among others), they eat meat, they don't dress like monks/nuns, they are very ecumenistic, etc. These things are very worrisome to me. I'm going to stop there since I don't want to derail the thread.

Forgive me if I caused you any offense.

Orthodox should not be selling iconographic images of people not recognized as saints by the Orthodox Church.
 
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