The Cross- The tree of the Knowledge of GOOD and EVIL

[Lulav]

Was the Cross actually made of the tree from the Garden in Eden?


8 And the L-RD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the L-RD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

This paradise was not created on earth, in stead we read that it was 'planted' there by G-d.

Many think because it's talking about a garden that it means that G-d stuck seeds in the ground and trees came up. I don't think that is what it was trying to convey.

You can 'plant your feet'. This means you pick them up and put them down in a place you want. It can mean to put into place, to post or station something firmly.


Now in this 'garden' this is what the L-RD did: out of the ground made the L-RD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food.

So these are beautiful trees that would provide a great environment and also be good for food if one so desired.

Now what follows has been a riddle of the centuries.

"the tree of life also in the midst of the garden,
and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."​

In the middle of the fruit trees we find these two other 'trees'.

Why are they there? Why not just the fruit trees?

If one is called the Tree of Life, why isn't the other called the Tree of Death?

The eating from it is what brought death to mankind.

but it is called' the tree of knowledge of good and evil'

In other words, The Tree of the knowledge of right and wrong (in G-ds eyes)

Only one knew what that was because he had defied G-d and rebelled.

That one in Revelation 12 is called :

…But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels.
9 And the great dragon was hurled down — the ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world.​

I won't get into why he was allowed in the Garden with Adam and Havah, but it seems by the passage in Ezekiel he was there before he fell and was allowed to stay to test the new creation.

So it is not too much conjecture to postulate that the 'tree' of the knowledge of good/evil right/wrong, is the Adversary.

The Adversary is the one who opposes G-d.

Now there was another Tree there, and this is the 'Opposed'.

the Gospel of John harkens back many times to the Creation story and Genesis. This passage does so as well.

5 “Lord,” said Thomas, “we do not know where You are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way, the truth, and the life".

Since Ancient times when the Torah is brought up Proverbs 3:17-18 is recited as follows.

“It is a tree of life to all who grasp it, and whoever holds on to it is happy; its ways are ways of pleasantness, and all it paths are peace.​

The Torah is considered Israel's wisdom , direct from G-d.

When we look in the last book of the Bible, Revelation we see back to the Garden, however this time something is missing, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

There is only one tree standing there,

The tree of LIFE>

Gen 3:…23 therefore the L-RD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.
24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

No mention of the other tree there. Nor here either.

Rev 22:1Then the angel showed me a river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb,
2 down the middle of the main street of the city. On either side of the river stood a tree of life, producing twelve kinds of fruit and yielding a fresh crop for each month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.


So what happened to that other tree?

I propose that was used to make the Cross upon whom our Savior hung from.

The unblemished lamb who took on the sins of the world.

Good -- Evil

Right (keeping G-ds laws) ---Wrong--(lawless)

The deceiver who was in the garden did not just lie that would be too easy, a deceiver is one who 'mixes' truth with lies.

When the Israelites were in the wilderness they not only rebelled agaisnt Moses, but of G-d himself, they became like the Adversary.

…5 The people spoke against God and Moses, "Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and we loathe this miserable food." 6 The L-RD sent fiery serpents among the people and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died.

What was the cure?

They repented and Moses interceded for them. (Numbers 21)

And the L-RD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.​

The serpent is of course the Adversary, but why is it put upon a pole?

Because it represented the Salvation G-d was to ultimately bring to his people.

Yeshua was that Serpent on the Pole.

He 'became' sin for us. The Father put the sins of the people upon him. What was Good and pure now became Evil and impure.

The tree of life became the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil to restore us back to the Garden where we can once again Walk with G-d with no more temptation.

 

[visionary]

4000 year old tree used to crucify Yeshua... interesting but with lots of logistic problems.

 

[Heber Book List]

Lulav - how, if at all, do you see that fit with Yeshua being a shoot from a stump? Or the Romans 11:17ff scripture?

 

[Lulav]

4000 year old tree used to crucify Yeshua... interesting but with lots of logistic problems.

The Tree of Life Shows up fully alive in Revelation 22.

There are traditions about Adam Staff too but I won't derail.

 

[Heber Book List]

4000 year old tree used to crucify Yeshua... interesting but with lots of logistic problems.

4000? Nearer 5000. 4000 takes us back to Abram

 

[Lulav]

Was the Cross actually made of the tree from the Garden in Eden?


no ... but but they are both pictures of the same truth ...


as for the rest of your post ... there is only one tree in the midst of the garden we have two perceptions of ...

You don't know that for sure that it wasn't.
What is both a picture?

I think you are mistaken, there were two trees in the Garden, it is specific in the Hebrew.

It's not about perception, it was about choice, even in the Garden we had free will. Just as in the Torah it tells us to choose LIFE!

 

[Lulav]

4000? Nearer 5000. 4000 takes us back to Abram

Yeshua was crucified, approx 4,000 years from creation.

 

[Heber Book List]

Yeshua was crucified, approx 4,000 years from creation.

Silly me - counting back from today not 30ce or thereabouts. Delete the posts if you wish

 

[Lulav]

Not a biggie, I had to try and count back too, haven't had enough coffee yet, you are probably tired from a long day.

What do you think of the OP, I'd like your take on it.

 

[Heber Book List]

Not a biggie, I had to try and count back too, haven't had enough coffee yet, you are probably tired from a long day.

What do you think of the OP, I'd like your take on it.

It's a really interesting debate. Initially we need to know whether the Garden was where Israel now is. If this was so, then it is not going to be a problem because G_d could easily guide the Romans to cut down a particular tree - but which tree would it have been? Just one of the two for both the upright and the cross beam, or both with each tree making up a part of the cross e.g. the tree of good and evil as the cross beam and the Tree of Life as the vertical post (or vice versa); the symbalism would be amazing if that were to be the case. So many possibilities!

We know that there is a tree in the Garden of Gethesmane, the roots of which (and possibly the trunk) date back some two millennia, so treees can certainly live for long periods of time - longevity of tree life is not necessarily a problem. I read, many years ago, that it had been discovered, to the surprise of all in the scientific world, that under the ice in the Arctic circle evidence was found of lush green grasses, plants and trees, so maybe the Garden could have been anywhere. But where? It would be nice to think that it was, at least, somewhere in Israel, so that we could solve these issues, but maybe G_d would not want that tree / those trees to be found today.

Although the Romans would have cut down what was, to them, a random tree, there is no reason G_d could not have guided them to cut down a very old tree, even if they didn't realise it; there were, of course, a number of events within Yeshua's life that 'fulfilled prophecy' without the Romans, and others, ever realising them. This maybe one of those?

Certainly trees, or parts thereof, are used a lot, metaphorically, in the scriptures, some causing many problems (Romans 11:17ff), others having a feeling of reality that we can understand and accept (the trunk of Jesse), making Yeshua the Tree of Life, as well as the Vine, then there is the Garden , as you mention, and so on. Of course, all this will make no sense to those who say the Garden of Eden account is irrelevant, because the earth was not created as the Bible says.

I really love the Tree of Life in the Grand Synagogue in Jerusalem! My all time favourite stained glass window. I have a picture of it that I was given to me when I went there just after the synagogue was opened

Edited to add: If the Romans used the Tree of Life on which to crucify Yeshua, does that not mean that the Tree of Life (or the Tree of Good and Evil) is dead? Just an after-thought.

Strong painkiller effect might be the cause of the error in counting!

 

[Lulav]

Edited to add: If the Romans used the Tree of Life on which to crucify Yeshua, does that not mean that the Tree of Life (or the Tree of Good and Evil) is dead? Just an after-thought.

I'd love to discuss the rest of your post later in detail, thanks so much for all that!

But this, yes, The Tree of Life lives on, it is seen in heaven or the new earth in Revelation. But if the Romans were able to use the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil (tov/ra) then it would be dead. And isn't that what Yeshua did on the cross?

He died to take away the sin of that tree.

 

[Heber Book List]

I'd love to discuss the rest of your post later in detail, thanks so much for all that!

But this, yes, The Tree of Life lives on, it is seen in heaven or the new earth in Revelation. But if the Romans were able to use the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil (tov/ra) then it would be dead. And isn't that what Yeshua did on the cross?

He died to take away the sin of that tree.

I agree - I also pondered as to the line of thought that the Cross was a mixture of the two trees - that in the Good (Yeshua) laying down his life to defeat Evil, he brought us Life, and so the Tree of Life lives on, as both the Tree and with Yeshua as The Tree of Life?

 

[CherubRam]

This is a partial list of the word “trees” being used as a parable.



Olive Tree


Job 15:33
He will be like a vine stripped of its unripe grapes, like an olive tree shedding its blossoms.

Psalm 52:8
But I am like an olive tree flourishing in the house of God; I trust in God’s unfailing love for ever and ever.

Jeremiah 11:16
The Lord called you a thriving olive tree with fruit beautiful in form. But with the roar of a mighty storm he will set it on fire, and its branches will be broken.

Hosea 14:6
his young shoots will grow. His splendor will be like an olive tree, his fragrance like a cedar of Lebanon.

Zechariah 4:3
Also there are two olive trees by it, one on the right of the bowl and the other on its left.”

Zechariah 4:11
Then I asked the angel, “What are these two olive trees on the right and the left of the lampstand?”

Romans 11:24
After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

Revelation 11:4
They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”




Other trees

Psalm 1:3
That person is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither— whatever they do prospers.

Psalm 92:12
The righteous will flourish like a palm tree, they will grow like a cedar of Lebanon;

Proverbs 3:18
[Wisdom and Knowledge] She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her; those who hold her fast will be blessed.

Proverbs 11:30
The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, and the one who is wise saves lives.

Jeremiah 11:19
I had been like a gentle lamb led to the slaughter; I did not realize that they had plotted against me, saying, “Let us destroy the tree and its fruit; let us cut him off from the land of the living, that his name be remembered no more.”

Mark 8:24
He looked up and said, “I see people; they look like trees walking around.”

 

[Open Heart]

Was the Cross actually made of the tree from the Garden in Eden?


8 And the L-RD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the L-RD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

This paradise was not created on earth, in stead we read that it was 'planted' there by G-d.

Many think because it's talking about a garden that it means that G-d stuck seeds in the ground and trees came up. I don't think that is what it was trying to convey.

You can 'plant your feet'. This means you pick them up and put them down in a place you want. It can mean to put into place, to post or station something firmly.


Now in this 'garden' this is what the L-RD did: out of the ground made the L-RD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food.

So these are beautiful trees that would provide a great environment and also be good for food if one so desired.

Now what follows has been a riddle of the centuries.

"the tree of life also in the midst of the garden,
and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."​

In the middle of the fruit trees we find these two other 'trees'.

Why are they there? Why not just the fruit trees?

If one is called the Tree of Life, why isn't the other called the Tree of Death?

The eating from it is what brought death to mankind.

but it is called' the tree of knowledge of good and evil'

In other words, The Tree of the knowledge of right and wrong (in G-ds eyes)

Only one knew what that was because he had defied G-d and rebelled.

That one in Revelation 12 is called :

…But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels.
9 And the great dragon was hurled down — the ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world.​

I won't get into why he was allowed in the Garden with Adam and Havah, but it seems by the passage in Ezekiel he was there before he fell and was allowed to stay to test the new creation.

So it is not too much conjecture to postulate that the 'tree' of the knowledge of good/evil right/wrong, is the Adversary.

The Adversary is the one who opposes G-d.

Now there was another Tree there, and this is the 'Opposed'.

the Gospel of John harkens back many times to the Creation story and Genesis. This passage does so as well.

5 “Lord,” said Thomas, “we do not know where You are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way, the truth, and the life".

Since Ancient times when the Torah is brought up Proverbs 3:17-18 is recited as follows.

“It is a tree of life to all who grasp it, and whoever holds on to it is happy; its ways are ways of pleasantness, and all it paths are peace.​

The Torah is considered Israel's wisdom , direct from G-d.

When we look in the last book of the Bible, Revelation we see back to the Garden, however this time something is missing, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

There is only one tree standing there,

The tree of LIFE>

Gen 3:…23 therefore the L-RD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.
24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

No mention of the other tree there. Nor here either.

Rev 22:1Then the angel showed me a river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb,
2 down the middle of the main street of the city. On either side of the river stood a tree of life, producing twelve kinds of fruit and yielding a fresh crop for each month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.


So what happened to that other tree?

I propose that was used to make the Cross upon whom our Savior hung from.

The unblemished lamb who took on the sins of the world.

Good -- Evil

Right (keeping G-ds laws) ---Wrong--(lawless)

The deceiver who was in the garden did not just lie that would be too easy, a deceiver is one who 'mixes' truth with lies.

When the Israelites were in the wilderness they not only rebelled agaisnt Moses, but of G-d himself, they became like the Adversary.

…5 The people spoke against God and Moses, "Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and we loathe this miserable food." 6 The L-RD sent fiery serpents among the people and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died.

What was the cure?

They repented and Moses interceded for them. (Numbers 21)

And the L-RD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.​

The serpent is of course the Adversary, but why is it put upon a pole?

Because it represented the Salvation G-d was to ultimately bring to his people.

Yeshua was that Serpent on the Pole.

He 'became' sin for us. The Father put the sins of the people upon him. What was Good and pure now became Evil and impure.

The tree of life became the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil to restore us back to the Garden where we can once again Walk with G-d with no more temptation.

I don't get at all why you say the Tree of Life is the Cross (other than a figurative reference). You have not even begun to make a case.

Furthermore,

1. I don't know why you think that the Garden of Eden was not created on Earth. The text does not support you.

2. It is called the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, because its primary function was to bring moral sentience.

3. The text does not support the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil being a metaphor for sin/Satan. You are bringing up an entirely DIFFERENT STORY (the plague of serpents, and the snake on the pole) and conflating the two stories.

4. The reason the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is no longer mentioned is because mankind is already morally sentient. Its fruit would have no further effect on us.

 

[Erik Nelson]

• The Hebrew word for "midst" is tavek (H8432).
• BLB says it means "bisect" or "intersect", connoting the central point defined by the crossing intersection of other lines

Ergo, the Tree of Life (and the Tree of Knowledge) grew at the central crossing "intersection" of the Garden (Hebrew gan, cp. Canaan).

Seems easy to construe into the word a prefiguration of "the Cross"

Note the very next verse discusses rivers diverging out of Eden... perhaps the two trees grew right at the intersection of the four rivers ???

 

[Lulav]

Interesting proposition. The last letter of the hebrew alphabet in the ancient version is actually a cross.

The Tav , the last letter of the proto Hebrew alef-bet was symbolized by an 'X'. In fact it's where in pre literate times it was used as a 'mark' indeed of a signature. ''X' marks the spot is also a throw back to that.

And yes, the ancient tav would have had four points to it, so it's possible.

The scripture says that those two were 'in the midst' or middle, so X could have marked that spot.

 

[Open Heart]

• The Hebrew word for "midst" is tavek (H8432).
• BLB says it means "bisect" or "intersect", connoting the central point defined by the crossing intersection of other lines

Ergo, the Tree of Life (and the Tree of Knowledge) grew at the central crossing "intersection" of the Garden (Hebrew gan, cp. Canaan).

Seems easy to construe into the word a prefiguration of "the Cross"

Note the very next verse discusses rivers diverging out of Eden... perhaps the two trees grew right at the intersection of the four rivers ???

This is just an abuse of the English language, and such a miscontuance cannot be made in Hebrew.

 

[pinacled]

29And I said to you, "Do not be broken or afraid of them. כטוָֽאֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵכֶ֑ם לֹא־תַֽעַרְצ֥וּן וְלֹא־תִֽירְא֖וּן מֵהֶֽם:
30The Lord, your God, Who goes before you He will fight for you, just as He did for you in Egypt before your very eyes, ליְהֹוָ֤ה אֱלֹֽהֵיכֶם֙ הַֽהֹלֵ֣ךְ לִפְנֵיכֶ֔ם ה֖וּא יִלָּחֵ֣ם לָכֶ֑ם כְּ֠כֹ֠ל אֲשֶׁ֨ר עָשָׂ֧ה אִתְּכֶ֛ם בְּמִצְרַ֖יִם לְעֵֽינֵיכֶֽם:
31and in the desert, where you have seen how the Lord, your God, has carried you as a man carries his son, all the way that you have gone, until you have come to this place. לאוּבַמִּדְבָּר֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר רָאִ֔יתָ אֲשֶׁ֤ר נְשָֽׂאֲךָ֙ יְהֹוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָ כַּֽאֲשֶׁ֥ר יִשָּׂא־אִ֖ישׁ אֶת־בְּנ֑וֹ בְּכָל־הַדֶּ֨רֶךְ֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר הֲלַכְתֶּ֔ם עַד־בֹּֽאֲכֶ֖ם עַד־הַמָּק֥וֹם הַזֶּֽה:
32But regarding this matter, you do not believe the Lord, your God, לבוּבַדָּבָ֖ר הַזֶּ֑ה אֵֽינְכֶם֙ מַֽאֲמִינִ֔ם בַּֽיהֹוָ֖ה אֱלֹֽהֵיכֶֽם:
33Who goes before you on the way, to search out a place for you, in which to encamp, in fire at night, to enable you to see on the way you should go, and in a cloud by day." לגהַֽהֹלֵ֨ךְ לִפְנֵיכֶ֜ם בַּדֶּ֗רֶךְ לָת֥וּר לָכֶ֛ם מָק֖וֹם לַֽחֲנֹֽתְכֶ֑ם בָּאֵ֣שׁ | לַ֗יְלָה לַרְאֹֽתְכֶם֙ בַּדֶּ֨רֶךְ֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר תֵּֽלְכוּ־בָ֔הּ וּבֶֽעָנָ֖ן יוֹמָֽם:
34And the Lord heard the sound of your words, and He became angry and swore, saying, לדוַיִּשְׁמַ֥ע יְהֹוָ֖ה אֶת־ק֣וֹל דִּבְרֵיכֶ֑ם וַיִּקְצֹ֖ף וַיִּשָּׁבַ֥ע לֵאמֹֽר:
35'If any of these men of this evil generation sees the good land, which I swore to give your forefathers, להאִם־יִרְאֶ֥ה אִישׁ֙ בָּֽאֲנָשִׁ֣ים הָאֵ֔לֶּה הַדּ֥וֹר הָרָ֖ע הַזֶּ֑ה אֵ֚ת הָאָ֣רֶץ הַטּוֹבָ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר נִשְׁבַּ֔עְתִּי לָתֵ֖ת לַֽאֲבֹֽתֵיכֶֽם:
36except Caleb the son of Jephunneh he will see it, and I will give him the land he trod upon, and to his children, because he has completely followed the Lord." לוזֽוּלָתִ֞י כָּלֵ֤ב בֶּן־יְפֻנֶּה֙ ה֣וּא יִרְאֶ֔נָּה וְלֽוֹ־אֶתֵּ֧ן אֶת־הָאָ֛רֶץ אֲשֶׁ֥ר דָּֽרַךְ־בָּ֖הּ וּלְבָנָ֑יו יַ֕עַן אֲשֶׁ֥ר מִלֵּ֖א אַֽחֲרֵ֥י יְהֹוָֽה:
37The Lord was also angry with me because of you, saying, "Neither will you go there. לזגַּם־בִּי֙ הִתְאַנַּ֣ף יְהֹוָ֔ה בִּגְלַלְכֶ֖ם לֵאמֹ֑ר גַּם־אַתָּ֖ה לֹֽא־תָבֹ֥א שָֽׁם:
38But Joshua the son of Nun, who stands before you he will go there; strengthen him, for he will cause Israel to inherit it. לחיְהוֹשֻׁ֤עַ בִּן־נוּן֙ הָֽעֹמֵ֣ד לְפָנֶ֔יךָ ה֖וּא יָ֣בֹא שָׁ֑מָּה אֹת֣וֹ חַזֵּ֔ק כִּי־ה֖וּא יַנְחִלֶ֥נָּה אֶת־יִשְׂרָאֵֽל:
39[Moreover] your little ones, whom you said will be prey, and your children, who on that day did not know good and evil they will go there and I will give it to them, and they will possess it. לטוְטַפְּכֶם֩ אֲשֶׁ֨ר אֲמַרְתֶּ֜ם לָבַ֣ז יִֽהְיֶ֗ה וּבְנֵיכֶ֠ם אֲשֶׁ֨ר לֹא־יָֽדְע֤וּ הַיּוֹם֙ ט֣וֹב וָרָ֔ע הֵ֖מָּה יָבֹ֣אוּ שָׁ֑מָּה וְלָהֶ֣ם אֶתְּנֶ֔נָּה וְהֵ֖ם יִֽירָשֽׁוּהָ:

Psalms 127
The children being like a full quiver.


While reading today I noticed something that reminded me of How we were not given a spirit of fear.
And also the part about the children reminded me of what Yeshua said of them.

 

[pinacled]

29And I said to you, "Do not be broken or afraid of them. כטוָֽאֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵכֶ֑ם לֹא־תַֽעַרְצ֥וּן וְלֹא־תִֽירְא֖וּן מֵהֶֽם:
30The Lord, your God, Who goes before you He will fight for you, just as He did for you in Egypt before your very eyes, ליְהֹוָ֤ה אֱלֹֽהֵיכֶם֙ הַֽהֹלֵ֣ךְ לִפְנֵיכֶ֔ם ה֖וּא יִלָּחֵ֣ם לָכֶ֑ם כְּ֠כֹ֠ל אֲשֶׁ֨ר עָשָׂ֧ה אִתְּכֶ֛ם בְּמִצְרַ֖יִם לְעֵֽינֵיכֶֽם:
31and in the desert, where you have seen how the Lord, your God, has carried you as a man carries his son, all the way that you have gone, until you have come to this place. לאוּבַמִּדְבָּר֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר רָאִ֔יתָ אֲשֶׁ֤ר נְשָֽׂאֲךָ֙ יְהֹוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָ כַּֽאֲשֶׁ֥ר יִשָּׂא־אִ֖ישׁ אֶת־בְּנ֑וֹ בְּכָל־הַדֶּ֨רֶךְ֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר הֲלַכְתֶּ֔ם עַד־בֹּֽאֲכֶ֖ם עַד־הַמָּק֥וֹם הַזֶּֽה:
32But regarding this matter, you do not believe the Lord, your God, לבוּבַדָּבָ֖ר הַזֶּ֑ה אֵֽינְכֶם֙ מַֽאֲמִינִ֔ם בַּֽיהֹוָ֖ה אֱלֹֽהֵיכֶֽם:
33Who goes before you on the way, to search out a place for you, in which to encamp, in fire at night, to enable you to see on the way you should go, and in a cloud by day." לגהַֽהֹלֵ֨ךְ לִפְנֵיכֶ֜ם בַּדֶּ֗רֶךְ לָת֥וּר לָכֶ֛ם מָק֖וֹם לַֽחֲנֹֽתְכֶ֑ם בָּאֵ֣שׁ | לַ֗יְלָה לַרְאֹֽתְכֶם֙ בַּדֶּ֨רֶךְ֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר תֵּֽלְכוּ־בָ֔הּ וּבֶֽעָנָ֖ן יוֹמָֽם:
34And the Lord heard the sound of your words, and He became angry and swore, saying, לדוַיִּשְׁמַ֥ע יְהֹוָ֖ה אֶת־ק֣וֹל דִּבְרֵיכֶ֑ם וַיִּקְצֹ֖ף וַיִּשָּׁבַ֥ע לֵאמֹֽר:
35'If any of these men of this evil generation sees the good land, which I swore to give your forefathers, להאִם־יִרְאֶ֥ה אִישׁ֙ בָּֽאֲנָשִׁ֣ים הָאֵ֔לֶּה הַדּ֥וֹר הָרָ֖ע הַזֶּ֑ה אֵ֚ת הָאָ֣רֶץ הַטּוֹבָ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר נִשְׁבַּ֔עְתִּי לָתֵ֖ת לַֽאֲבֹֽתֵיכֶֽם:
36except Caleb the son of Jephunneh he will see it, and I will give him the land he trod upon, and to his children, because he has completely followed the Lord." לוזֽוּלָתִ֞י כָּלֵ֤ב בֶּן־יְפֻנֶּה֙ ה֣וּא יִרְאֶ֔נָּה וְלֽוֹ־אֶתֵּ֧ן אֶת־הָאָ֛רֶץ אֲשֶׁ֥ר דָּֽרַךְ־בָּ֖הּ וּלְבָנָ֑יו יַ֕עַן אֲשֶׁ֥ר מִלֵּ֖א אַֽחֲרֵ֥י יְהֹוָֽה:
37The Lord was also angry with me because of you, saying, "Neither will you go there. לזגַּם־בִּי֙ הִתְאַנַּ֣ף יְהֹוָ֔ה בִּגְלַלְכֶ֖ם לֵאמֹ֑ר גַּם־אַתָּ֖ה לֹֽא־תָבֹ֥א שָֽׁם:
38But Joshua the son of Nun, who stands before you he will go there; strengthen him, for he will cause Israel to inherit it. לחיְהוֹשֻׁ֤עַ בִּן־נוּן֙ הָֽעֹמֵ֣ד לְפָנֶ֔יךָ ה֖וּא יָ֣בֹא שָׁ֑מָּה אֹת֣וֹ חַזֵּ֔ק כִּי־ה֖וּא יַנְחִלֶ֥נָּה אֶת־יִשְׂרָאֵֽל:
39[Moreover] your little ones, whom you said will be prey, and your children, who on that day did not know good and evil they will go there and I will give it to them, and they will possess it. לטוְטַפְּכֶם֩ אֲשֶׁ֨ר אֲמַרְתֶּ֜ם לָבַ֣ז יִֽהְיֶ֗ה וּבְנֵיכֶ֠ם אֲשֶׁ֨ר לֹא־יָֽדְע֤וּ הַיּוֹם֙ ט֣וֹב וָרָ֔ע הֵ֖מָּה יָבֹ֣אוּ שָׁ֑מָּה וְלָהֶ֣ם אֶתְּנֶ֔נָּה וְהֵ֖ם יִֽירָשֽׁוּהָ:

Psalms 127
The children being like a full quiver.


While reading today I noticed something that reminded me of How we were not given a spirit of fear.
And also the part about the children reminded me of what Yeshua said of them.

Yeshua mentioning do not hinder nor offend reminds me of parents. I like to believe the Lord is always speaking of family.
Something i believe ole shaul expands on concerning the man or woman being a believing parent.
He mentions children being covered by the believing parent which is something I tend to think of as a wild olive when considering this family situation.
Complicated to say the least.
To me there is so much being said in The account given in devarim 1.
Especially of the children who where innocent in not knowing good or evil.

It is a sensitive subject for some when having been taught that sin entered the world with adam.
I still remember being told this as a small child. And I'm glad it never took root so to speak.
Being the always inquisitive type of child I reasoned and speculated about what was said. And held to skepticism till I learned what is important to remember.

Shaul is a Pharisee who wrote well and had a gift for d,rashing. And i do not recall that he ever said sin entered the world with adam.
I leave everyone to think and study further on there own for a moment.
Then perhaps our conversation in Christ may be further carryed along with less a burden as before.

(The words...) (Deuteronomy)}5 The light shines in the darkness,
and the darkness has not suppressed it.
[Moreover] your little ones, whom you said will be prey, and your children, who on that day did not know good and evil they will go there and I will give it to them, and they will possess it.

 

[pinacled]

Yeshua mentioning do not hinder nor offend reminds me of parents. I like to believe the Lord is always speaking of family.
Something i believe ole shaul expands on concerning the man or woman being a believing parent.
He mentions children being covered by the believing parent which is something I tend to think of as a wild olive when considering this family situation.
Complicated to say the least.
To me there is so much being said in The account given in devarim 1.
Especially of the children who where innocent in not knowing good or evil.

It is a sensitive subject for some when having been taught that sin entered the world with adam.
I still remember being told this as a small child. And I'm glad it never took root so to speak.
Being the always inquisitive type of child I reasoned and speculated about what was said. And held to skepticism till I learned what is important to remember.

Shaul is a Pharisee who wrote well and had a gift for d,rashing. And i do not recall that he ever said sin entered the world with adam.
I leave everyone to think and study further on there own for a moment.
Then perhaps our conversation in Christ may be further carryed along with less a burden as before.

(The words...) (Deuteronomy)}5 The light shines in the darkness,
and the darkness has not suppressed it.
[Moreover] your little ones, whom you said will be prey, and your children, who on that day did not know good and evil they will go there and I will give it to them, and they will possess it.

Who ever taught that sin entered the world with adam?

1 john 5
If anyone sees his brother committing a sin that does not lead to death, he will ask; and God will give him life for those whose sinning does not lead to death. There is sin that does lead to death; I am not saying he should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.