The Corona Virus

[Jeff11]

I support your comment that those with obesity are at higher risks of complications after contracting Covid-19. Your view is actually fact.

Obesity is very much associated with socioeconomic status (in developed countries - the reverse is true in developing nations), education level, and demographics. I wanted to correct you on your view that it's a democrat issue perpetuating the rise in obesity. If you look at your nation's stats you'll find that it crosses party lines.

I also want to correct you that the media is to blame. You have to remember that it was your previous president who directly supplied misinformation - First telling your nation that it wasn't a concern - then giving remedial advice that included hydroxychloroquine (Dangerous advice due to its proven side effects and ZERO efficacy against COVID), then he advised to swallow/inject disinfectant. He was very staunchly anti-mask.
I say all this, not to promote democrats as I couldn't care less who you voted into power, but rather to simply correct parts of your comment I find not factual, and to support parts of your comment that are.

People are not getting vaccinated because I don’t trust information they were getting from the media. The media has been extremely biased and has been providing miss leading information particularly when it came to President Trump and now when the pandemic hit people are distrustful.

 

[Jeff11]

I listen to a doctor yesterday who is a surgeon and he stated that masks were intended to protect people from getting things like saliva blood etc. during the surgery and the size of the holes and those mask is too big to restrict viruses of Covid. He is a medical doctor and trained surgeon and he says no benefit whatsoever to wearing a mask. And I think everything he said is true.

 

[Zoii]

Nowhere did I state that obesity was a democratic issue. I stated that forcing people to wear masks and forcing people to get vaccinations is being pushed more by democrats. The government which this state is run by the Democrats in both Congress and the White House, refused to acknowledge the fact that the people getting sick or people who have very poor metabolic health. Diabetes heart disease etc. which why would you then close down gyms for over a year knowing that? And I don’t think people realize how restrictive life is here in a blue state. No going to Gyms, No eating indoors, now going to bars, movies theaters. Literally not able to enter anywhere without a mascon. And this has been for a year and a half. You think you’d be better off in a blue state if not be able to go and do anything is your idea of being better off than yeah maybe. The recall of the governor in California is a direct result of these type of draconian measures.

Well, I'm glad you are raising obesity as an issue. In point of fact, it is the most prolific and lethal pandemic, due to its multi-pronged impact--heart disease, stroke, diabetes, joint dysfunction. It has a far higher propensity for lost-time injuries and absenteeism in the workplace and costs your and my nation billions every year. And it gets worse every year - what's tragic is the dramatic rise in childhood obesity. Canvass the people on this site regarding diet and exercise and it will disappoint you at their poor diet and almost zero daily exercise.

 

[Jeff11]

The rate of hospitalization for people who have been vaccinated is .004% in California. Yet because of the ignorance and stupidity of the state I got to wear a mask because of people who don’t want to get vaccinated. Why are you punishing people for doing what you’re recommending?

It’s a very typical democratic policy. People don’t want to get a job and go to work they rather stay home. Well we got to take money that you’ve earned and give it to them so they have something to eat. And then you want to tell me how morally right you are for doing that.

 

[Zoii]

People are not getting vaccinated because I don’t trust information they were getting from the media. The media has been extremely biased and has been providing miss leading information particularly when it came to President Trump and now when the pandemic hit people are distrustful.

Jeff - I can't speak to the trust element - but when scanning your media, I cannot see any misinformation concerning COVID-19... with perhaps those channels that gave a platform to Trump's penchant for Hydroxychloriquine.

Did you have anything specific that you believe is misinformation on COVID-19 being pushed from your media?

 

[Jeff11]

Jeff - I can't speak to the trust element - but when scanning your media, I cannot see any misinformation concerning COVID-19... with perhaps those channels that gave a platform to Trump's penchant for Hydroxychloriquine.

Did you have anything specific that you believe is misinformation on COVID-19 being pushed from your media?

I have seen studies that say mask block about 10% of the particles the size of viruses due to the size of the holes in the mask. They aren’t effective. And if that’s not evidence enough, Look at the high number of cases in states like California who have had the longest running mask mandate in the country.

 

[Zoii]

The rate of hospitalization for people who have been vaccinated is .004% in California. Yet because of the ignorance and stupidity of the state I got to wear a mask because of people who don’t want to get vaccinated. Why are you punishing people for doing what you’re recommending?

It’s a very typical democratic policy. People don’t want to get a job and go to work they rather stay home. Well we got to take money that you’ve earned and give it to them so they have something to eat. And then you want to tell me how morally right you are for doing that.

I understand your frustration when most people do the right thing and follow health advice, while a minority flout public health guidelines thus resulting in an escalation of the pandemic. Those misguided and selfish individuals effect you and your family personally and financially because the more drastic public health measures have to be put in place to curb transmission. Its unfair and selfish - I get it - but it has to be done until you have a modicum of herd immunity.

 

[Zoii]

I have seen studies that say mask block about 10% of the particles the size of viruses due to the size of the holes in the mask. They aren’t effective. And if that’s not evidence enough, Look at the high number of cases in states like California who have had the longest running mask mandate in the country.

Well that's not quite right - If you wear a material mask then what you say is quite true.

In hospitals when conducting surgery, the grade of mask used greatly reduces transmission of antigens from the wearer to others eg patient. To prevent the wearer from receiving droplet or airborne antigens, a higher grade mask is worn called N95. There's quite a lot of documentation around about how they work and their efficacy is very solid.

 

[Jeff11]

I understand your frustration when most people do the right thing and follow health advice, while a minority flout public health guidelines thus resulting in an escalation of the pandemic. Those misguided and selfish individuals effect you and your family personally and financially because the more drastic public health measures have to be put in place to curb transmission. Its unfair and selfish - I get it - but it has to be done until you have a modicum of herd immunity.

I would support what you said if there was any actual evidence that wearing masks works. It’s actually the opposite. The states with the strictest mandates and the longest running mandates have higher transmission rates. You also have to consider the fact that in California I can’t dine indoors can’t go to the gym you can’t attend church those things will happen in fact because obviously you’re not in contact with anyone. But the actual masks do very little

 

[hedrick]

I have seen studies that say mask block about 10% of the particles the size of viruses due to the size of the holes in the mask. They aren’t effective. And if that’s not evidence enough, Look at the high number of cases in states like California who have had the longest running mask mandate in the country.

Not everything that spreads the virus is that small.
Several real world checks suggest something larger, like 30%. That may not seem very dramatic, but with R around 1 it can make the difference between infections going up and down. The most recent study was an actual randomized controlled test. Largest study of masks yet details their importance in fighting Covid-19 It saw a decrease of 10%, but they only got people to increase mask use by 30%. They aren’t in a position to do a legal mandate.

Masks alone won’t stop Covid, but a combination of vaccination, masks and some degree of distancing can do a good job.

 

[Jeff11]

Not everything that spreads the virus is that small.
Several real world checks suggest something larger, like 30%. That may not seem very dramatic, but with R around 1 it can make the difference between infections going up and down. The most recent study was an actual randomized controlled test. Largest study of masks yet details their importance in fighting Covid-19 It saw a decrease of 10%, but they only got people to increase mask use by 30%. They aren’t in a position to do a legal mandate.

Masks alone won’t stop Covid, but a combination of vaccination, masks and some degree of distancing can do a good job.

There is a legal mandating California. You cannot enter a building business etc. without a mask. And it’s been that way since April of last year

 

[BeyondET]

stuff floats right into the eyes also

 

[hedrick]

There is a legal mandating California. You cannot enter a building business etc. without a mask. And it’s been that way since April of last year

I checked rules online. Unless I’m missing something rules in localities may be stronger than state rules. What you say is true of LA, and probably other areas, but the state rules are looser. That might be part of the reason that LAs case numbers are lower than the state average, though it also has higher vaccination rates.

 

[Jeff11]

I checked rules online. Unless I’m missing something rules in localities may be stronger than state rules. What you say is true of LA, and probably other areas, but the state rules are looser. That might be part of the reason that LAs case numbers are lower than the state average, though it also has higher vaccination rates.

Keeping people from going anywhere for closing all the bars restaurants and churches etc. yeah that’s obviously having an affect. I don’t think the masks do very much. Most people are not wearing N95 masks And those masks were not intended for stopping viruses they were intended to be used in a medical facility to prevent transmission of liquids like during a surgery like Saliva or blood.

what is the cost of this lockdown though? How many small businesses permanently closed? What is the cost on peoples mental health? It’s not good to force people to stay away from anyone for their mental health. And all this so that irresponsible people don’t get the virus because they won’t get a vaccine? If you want to encourage more people to get vaccinated why don’t you give them incentive to get vaccinated by allowing them not to have to wear a mask? What you’re doing is completely opposite. You’re discouraging people to get vaccinated because it doesn’t change anything in their day-to-day lives. Even worse there’s a very strong connection between poor metabolic health and complications to Covid. So what do they do they closed all the gyms for over a year. Not exercising regularly make your metabolic health even worse. I don’t think people in red states realize how ridiculous the restrictions have been. And I see no end in sight. They are going to be having this mask mandate for more than two years at least.

 

[hedrick]

Keeping people from going anywhere for closing all the bars restaurants and churches etc. yeah that’s obviously having an affect. I don’t think the masks do very much. Most people are not wearing N95 masks And those masks were not intended for stopping viruses they were intended to be used in a medical facility to prevent transmission of liquids like during a surgery like Saliva or blood.

what is the cost of this lockdown though? How many small businesses permanently closed? What is the cost on peoples mental health? It’s not good to force people to stay away from anyone for their mental health. And all this so that irresponsible people don’t get the virus because they won’t get a vaccine? If you want to encourage more people to get vaccinated why don’t you give them incentive to get vaccinated by allowing them not to have to wear a mask? What you’re doing is completely opposite. You’re discouraging people to get vaccinated because it doesn’t change anything in their day-to-day lives. Even worse there’s a very strong connection between poor metabolic health and complications to Covid. So what do they do they closed all the gyms for over a year. Not exercising regularly make your metabolic health even worse. I don’t think people in red states realize how ridiculous the restrictions have been. And I see no end in sight. They are going to be having this mask mandate for more than two years at least.

Could you point me to current rules? Online info suggests that bars are open, with distancing requirements, and have been for some time. It appears that the same is true of most other businesses. It appears that many bars are requiring vaccination, but that this is not a legal requirement.

we’ve heard in this thread that LA is locked down and has the worst Covid rates in the country. As someone in NJ I don’t know details, but so far most of the complaints aren’t holding up. I hope the upcoming votes on Newson is based on reality. So far my checking is making LA and CA in general look better than I had realized based on national media.

 

[bèlla]

@hedrick

Good to see you in these parts. I hope you’re well. I’m in IL. Bars and restaurants are open. I went to lunch yesterday. I entered without a mask. There was no mention of vaccines. From what I’ve seen they’re required by theaters (like opera).

~bella

 

[hedrick]

@hedrick

Good to see you in these parts. I hope you’re well. I’m in IL. Bars and restaurants are open. I went to lunch yesterday. I entered without a mask. There was no mention of vaccines. From what I’ve seen they’re required by theaters (like opera).

~bella

Yeah. I don’t think real lockdowns have been a thing for a while. The main variable is masking. Illinois put that back as of yesterday. Covid Updates: Illinois Takes Steps to Curb Virus With Mask Mandate
LA has capacity limits. I’m not sure how common that is currently. Somewhat surprisingly, NJ hasn’t put indoor masking back, except government buildings, schools, medical care. I don’t think we will during this phase, though I worry about Thanksgiving to Christmas. But the places I’ve been, people actually do wear masks. Some stores recommend it but don’t seem to be enforcing it. At 72 years old, I wear a KN95 indoors.

Sunday School (5th through 7th grade) starts next week. We’re doing it outside to avoid masks. One teacher should wear one, and one parent will make her kid do it until they are vaccinated. I’d like to get to know the kids without them. When it gets colder we’ll have to go indoors. Although it’s not legally required, we follow the same rules as the local school, so we’ll use masks indoors. I hope not too long after that our kids will all be vaccinated. Currently only some can, because of age. NJ will move away from masks in schools when numbers get lower. The governor really tried to avoid it, but Delta hit.

 

[Jeff11]

Could you point me to current rules? Online info suggests that bars are open, with distancing requirements, and have been for some time. It appears that the same is true of most other businesses. It appears that many bars are requiring vaccination, but that this is not a legal requirement.

we’ve heard in this thread that LA is locked down and has the worst Covid rates in the country. As someone in NJ I don’t know details, but so far most of the complaints aren’t holding up. I hope the upcoming votes on Newson is based on reality. So far my checking is making LA and CA in general look better than I had realized based on national media.

The rates in California have been going down because they peaked I don’t think that should be so difficult to understand if you’re actually seeking the truth. Now if you’re just wanting to justify your position by making up alternative facts that’s another story. The facts are this you cannot go into a restaurant or gym anywhere without a mascon. The only reason any of these places got opened up is because the governor is being recalled for his policies. That’s the only reason there’s any openings back up is because the governor realized that this is what was driving people to recall him. Even now I think restaurants are at 50% capacity if that. I don’t think schools have been reopened. I know you don’t really want to hear the truth

 

[hedrick]

The rates in California have been going down because they peaked I don’t think that should be so difficult to understand if you’re actually seeking the truth. Now if you’re just wanting to justify your position by making up alternative facts that’s another story. The facts are this you cannot go into a restaurant or gym anywhere without a mascon. The only reason any of these places got opened up is because the governor is being recalled for his policies. That’s the only reason there’s any openings back up is because the governor realized that this is what was driving people to recall him. Even now I think restaurants are at 50% capacity if that. I don’t think schools have been reopened. I know you don’t really want to hear the truth

You are covered by state rules and LA rules. The governor is responsible for State rules. Those call for unvaccinated people to mask indoors. That was put into effect July 28, per CDC recommendations, as Delta became more serious. Rules like that are effectively unenforceable, so places like LA have blanket mask requirements, but apparently not the State. So I think they are attributing your county rules to the State. I'm fairly sure that the State hasn't had capacity limits since June 15.

Previously, most restrictions ended June 15.That was around the time that vaccination had become effective. Perhaps it was a bit late, but episodes had gone up and down, and several states didn’t feel confident the decrease would stick until they had a lot of people vaccinated. NJ did it June 4, NY June 15.

It’s hard to see how the choice of June 15 or the reimposition of soft restrictions July 28 could have been the result of the recall campaign. I note that that campaign started in Feb 2020, before Covid had hit.

I think the main criticism one could make is that restrictions could have been ended earlier than June 15. Possibly as early as March 1. But that’s hindsight, and it’s really hard to know how much the decline by March 1 was affected by the rules.Holding off for vaccination was rational, even if you disagree.

 

[hedrick]

Incidentally, I agree that rates have peaked through most of the US. The difference is what the peak was. California is not the best, but is in the better half. Too many states have rates three time higher and full emergency rooms.