The Corona-virus exposes an ugly side of humanity.

[dqhall]

Makes me want to but a plot of land and become self sufficient. Get some chickens, a cow, and plant some crops. Maybe a small orchard. I think it is a learning experience for most where you have to learn about organic practices with crop mixing and natural pesticides. Even then there are water shortages if you buy in dry areas.

I look for cheap land in the rain belts up the east coast of Australia especially in tropical areas of north Queensland. Some people sell shares in large parcels of land with like minded people wanting an alternative lifestyle. I think more people will be thinking that way now.

You may need to serve as an apprentice to a farmer unless you can learn farming from someone else. Land is expensive, taxes are expensive, housing is expensive, health care is expensive, farm machinery is expensive.

My sister in law has a big garden in Vermont. My brother planted apple trees and berry bushes. He and his son did maple sugaring in season. They cut down trees, split and stacked firewood for the wood burning stove. They both worked full time jobs in town.

 

[stevevw]

You may need to serve as an apprentice to a farmer unless you can learn farming from someone else. Land is expensive, taxes are expensive, housing is expensive, health care is expensive, farm machinery is expensive.

My sister in law has a big garden in Vermont. My brother planted apple trees and berry bushes. He and his son did maple sugaring in season. They cut down trees, split and stacked firewood for the wood burning stove. They both worked full time jobs in town.

I am only thinking of a small enterprise just for self and family. You could setup one on around an acre of land but I would like more land to be able to have room to expand. But land is expensive around cities so you will have to go further out. We have some cheap land here in Australia but it is usually in dry areas. There is some land in wetter areas but they are in pretty remote places.

I seen one today which was a 1/25th share of 250 acres of some tropical land with a basic house for 150k which is pretty good compared to the city prices. Its pretty remote up north Qld and a bit in from the coast in the higher rainfall zone. But it has good access to water and good growing land.
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-acreage+semi-rural-qld-millaa+millaa-132667498

 

[dqhall]

I am only thinking of a small enterprise just for self and family. You could setup one on around an acre of land but I would like more land to be able to have room to expand. But land is expensive around cities so you will have to go further out. We have some cheap land here in Australia but it is usually in dry areas. There is some land in wetter areas but they are in pretty remote places.

I seen one today which was a 1/25th share of 250 acres of some tropical land with a basic house for 150k which is pretty good compared to the city prices. Its pretty remote up north Qld and a bit in from the coast in the higher rainfall zone. But it has good access to water and good growing land.
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-acreage+semi-rural-qld-millaa+millaa-132667498

I do not know how to feed a family with an acre of tropical land. If you are independently wealthy or can work a job from a computer terminal, farming might be a hobby.

 

[stevevw]

I do not know how to feed a family with an acre of tropical land. If you are independently wealthy or can work a job from a computer terminal, farming might be a hobby.

It doesn't have to be tropical land. That example I linked was more of a alternative lifestyle more than a hobby farm. You would be restricted in what veggies you could grow but you would be able to grow a large variety of tropical fruit. Bananas, mango's, pineapples, paw paw, Kumquat, avo's, kiwi fruit. But there is potential for a vast range of exotic fruits as well. But I don't think there are many veggies that can grow in tropical climates. Maybe capsicums, certain Asian veggies like long beans, buk choi, etc. There are tropical species of lettuce and tomatoes.

But my friend who is a greeny was saying you could setup a decent veggie patch with some chickens and a goat for milk on around an acre on the fringe of the city. That maybe a more realistic venture. For me it would be more a hobby. It would be all about being self sufficient and the lifestyle. We have a community garden at work and I put all my energy into that as there is a bit of land and it is more of a community venture for everyone which gives you more rewards.

 

[dqhall]

It doesn't have to be tropical land. That example I linked was more of a alternative lifestyle more than a hobby farm. You would be restricted in what veggies you could grow but you would be able to grow a large variety of tropical fruit. Bananas, mango's, pineapples, paw paw, Kumquat, avo's, kiwi fruit. But there is potential for a vast range of exotic fruits as well. But I don't think there are many veggies that can grow in tropical climates. Maybe capsicums, certain Asian veggies like long beans, buk choi, etc. There are tropical species of lettuce and tomatoes.

But my friend who is a greeny was saying you could setup a decent veggie patch with some chickens and a goat for milk on around an acre on the fringe of the city. That maybe a more realistic venture. For me it would be more a hobby. It would be all about being self sufficient and the lifestyle. We have a community garden at work and I put all my energy into that as there is a bit of land and it is more of a community venture for everyone which gives you more rewards.

Cheap land on the fringe of a city? Seems like more than 50 miles out. Maybe better to get a quarter acre and an avocado tree. Can grow kale in subtropical areas. I grew two loquat trees. Had to irrigate during the dry season with county water. I do not think I broke even. A neighbor had a large avocado near where there was roof water runoff to douse the roots.

 

[stevevw]

Cheap land on the fringe of a city? Seems like more than 50 miles out. Maybe better to get a quarter acre and an avocado tree. Can grow kale in subtropical areas. I grew two loquat trees. Had to irrigate during the dry season with county water. I do not think I broke even. A neighbor had a large avocado near where there was roof water runoff to douse the roots.

You can still get some decent 1/4 acre blocks 30-40 kilometers from Brisbane city for around 300k to 350k. I live in Redcliffe and have a large avo and mango tree in the backyard. Don't have to do anything and get all the avo's I want plus tons more. The mango tree only produces a a few each year but this year we got quite a few.

Our community garden has a good range when in season of Kale, sweet potatoes, cabbage, pumpkin, tomatoes, lettuce, cucumbers, carrots, limes, star fruit, mango's and some native berries and fruits. That's because there is always volunteers tending it everyday and we get some donated products. Unless you have a big water tank it is hard to maintain a garden in Queensland with the water restrictions if we have a drought.

 

[variant]

You still see some of that in the US. People are already texting about how to deliver supplies to the needy and vulnerable, at least at my church. At my *very* secular workplace, there is also a sense that we're going through this together, and will get through this together, we already have a culture of helping each other out.

But at the same time in the US, there's gross selfishness. When New Orleans was devastated after Katrina (2005) and the looting stories got out, I knew we were screwed if a similar nationwide calamity hit.

Right, let's look at all of humanity not just the ones being selfish.

For instance, there are, right now millions of hospital staff working round the clock in the most dangerous conditions to help those in need.

And, lets not forget how many people are working to keep food and supplies available to all.

 

[TassiaNico]

I don't think the people who hoard or panic buy are all bad, they are just scared. Most of them have probably never faced serious adversity in life and have no trust in their ability to keep going. Surrounding themselves with stuff makes them feel a little safer. I'm sure we will be seeing more fighting, more rationing, and more looting. It's important not to hate or despise the people doing it, though, and remember they are far more scared and out of control than you are. They have nothing to hold onto, so maybe be that person for them.

The virus is also bringing out the best in humanity. There are many, many sewing clubs now working on making masks for resource-strapped hospitals and medical centres. Several relatives of mine are involved in the sewing projects. These masks are very helpful because they can be reused and sanitised repeatedly, and protect the N-95 masks and filters from being worn out.

Doctors, nurses, EMTs and so on are all stepping up, risking their lives to help heal the sick. They don't have to. Many doctors in wealthy countries have plenty of money and could easily retire and stay home, so they aren't doing it for the money. Hundreds of health care workers across the globe of died of the virus because they stayed on their post saving people.

Lots of companies are stepping up to make products. Alcohol distilleries and breweries are making hand sanitiser, famous fashion designers are making masks and gowns, some manufacturers are negotiating to make medical machinery like ventilators. There are also tonnes of companies donating services. Where some relatives of mine live in the States, Comcast is providing free internet service to people who don't have it. Restaurants were giving away food.

There is good in the world, you just have to want to see it.

 

[stevevw]

I am pretty impressed with the Australian government at the moment. They are bringing in strict social distancing though some say we should go into total lock-down. But I think they have a good balance at the moment as the measures stop just short of a lock-down which still allows some businesses to continue to tick over. For those who have closed the government is not hesitating to come up with money to double unemployment benefits for existing and new applicants, supplement peoples wages who are still part time working so they can keep the business open so they don't go into complete closure and bankruptcy.

We have seen a small reduction in new cases so hopefully this will continue. But I think we will see the effects of the virus hit countries economically and this will last for some time. It is when businesses start back up again and have to gradually stand on their own feet. I think it will be the unpredictability that will cause most of the damage. We know that most western nations were already at the brink of collapsing economically before the virus with big credit debts. I think this may push things over the edge.

If everyone nations and individuals owe massive amounts of money then it will only take a slight increase in interest rates and for creditors to call in debt to send economies into a spin. The level of debt we are sustaining now will never be paid back as the interest alone will be too high to pay back. This has to effect the value of money. Maybe the virus will herald a new system of doing business but I don,t think we will ever go back to how things were.