The Contradiction: Messages about God's Mercy, Love, and Grace and Messages about Judgment...?

[corinth77777]

For even when I thought to myself that I didn't want to wait until something happened to me to go to God...and started to love my children by intentionally doing things for them, God had blessed me with life of Joy and Peace. And after this ....when I sought Him with my whole heart....its truly up to us to count the cost to surrender our own lives to Him....or continue to follow after our own desires that usually lead to death or perishing....emptiness. Therefore salvation is continuously keeping our eyes on Christ....living out His life.

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” Gal 2:16

In my interpretation here, the faith of Jesus is in reference to the working faith of Jesus..as James defines the only true faith that saves.
So no matter how Many different ways I can interpret this passage the conclusion seems to remain the same. Rather we must have the faith or faithfulness of Jesus.

For as "we believe in Jesus Christ" who He is the risen Lord....we believe in order to put our trust in Him [or His faithfulness] that He lives forever to intercede on our behalf to live sinless life. Be transformed by the renewing of the mind...... therefore salvation is Christ's life. We must live up to what He has done and I believe we will find ourselves resurrected in a whole new way to life that is of the living and not leading to death.

 

[Neogaia777]

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” Gal 2:16

In my interpretation here, the faith of Jesus is in reference to the working faith of Jesus..as James defines the only true faith that saves.
So no matter how Many different ways I can interpret this passage the conclusion seems to remain the same. Rather we must have the faith or faithfulness of Jesus.

For as "we believe in Jesus Christ" who He is the risen Lord....we believe in order to put our trust in Him [or His faithfulness] that He lives forever to intercede on our behalf to live sinless life. Be transformed by the renewing of the mind...... therefore salvation is Christ's life. We must live up to what He has done and I believe we will find ourselves resurrected in a whole new way to life that is of the living and not leading to death.

The "way" is not the Law though, right...? But "Faith" and having or eventually coming to the kind of Faith Jesus Himself had, by walking in it, and also Love, and by following these and not being overly sin conscious, or your own works focused (which is what the Law does) will, in time, take care of sin, right...?

Faith and Love... Or Love, Hope, and Faith, the greatest of these being Love...

But Hope is a part of Faith I would think, and Faith a part of Hope, for it is near impossible for one to have one separate from, or apart from the other, right...?

Or, at least, that's what I think you seem to be saying... Am I getting that somewhat right at all...?

I just want us to get this right and have it now, or soon, perhaps I am just (being) impatient...? IDK...?

God Bless!

 

[mark kennedy]

The Contradiction: Messages about God's Mercy, Love, Kindness, Compassion, Forgiveness and Grace, justification by Faith alone, and all that, that are all to clear (supposedly)... And then, messages about Judgment, that are also, all to clear (supposedly) (and/or on the "surface" anyway)...?

How do we reconcile these, for they seem opposed...?

Most of know the Grace, Mercy, Love, Compassion, ect, verses and ways and theology (well, most of us anyway) for that is even known and can be known in and by the heart, or a person's heart, or knowing hearts, (or the hearts of men/man) alone...

But what about the verses about Judgment...? that (to sum them all up), basically say that if you sin at all, you will not get into, nor ever see the Kingdom of God...?

This can be both Old or New Testament, doesn't matter, they basically all say that if you sin (at all) you do not "get in" (to Heaven)...

So, what do we do about this...?

Does it mean if you "continue in these sins by the end", or what...? But/and also because many say that logically it is impossible for any of us to be sinless, and I would agree with that, but the Messages about Judgment are still there, (along with Grace), and they are, or appear to be very, or all too clear, at least on the surface...?

What do we do about this...?

We do know that, almost nearly always, at least with us, that if we try to do away with and/or conquer sin in our own strength, it will not work, except for only deceiving a person into thinking they have, or do, or are, or can ever be, basically, 100% totally sinless...

What do we do about this...?

Ideas...? Thoughts...?

God Bless!

“God put forward Jesus as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness … so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.” (Romans 3:25–26)
​

Your not the first to face that raging bull of a dilemma. God is coming in wrath and yet, is full of grace and mercy. This problem was solved at the cross, justice and mercy finally worked it out. Now I'm not sure where you are going with this and haven't visited the thread but that would be my initial response. I've seen you around, you seem like your pretty serious about doctrine. Hope I can contribute something to the discussion.

 

[Sm412]

You are right in that eternal damnation is a great contradiction to God's love, mercy, and forgiveness. One that, IMO, cannot be reconciled.

Unapologetic Universalist here, that is, a believer in universal salvation. All creation will be brought into the grace of God through Christ's sacrifice, and all people will be brought unto Him. A minority idea, certainly, maybe a little unorthadox. But not so when you consider early Christianity was universalist as well. Teachings of eternal damnation didn't come until later. Also, there have been a lot of famous theologians throughout the years who have been universalist.

Read all about it here: The Christian Universalist Association multiple articles and videos, historical and argumentative, making a case for universalism.

My biggest problem with believers in eternal damnation is that they praise Jesus and do good works out of fear of hell. They want to save themselves. A selfish, self-centered point of view. What a way to live, huh? I do all this out of infinite love for God, and I do good works out of love for humanity. I fear not eternal hell.

 

[dhh712]

This can be both Old or New Testament, doesn't matter, they basically all say that if you sin (at all) you do not "get in" (to Heaven)...

So, what do we do about this.

You rest upon Jesus' finished work. When we stand before God on the last day we are clothed in His righteousness and nothing of our own.

You seem to realize this, that if (as I'm sure we all have) as a child you stood in defiance against your parents and didn't do something they told you to do (clean your room, wash the dishes, take out the garbage, anything at all)--that one sin prevents you from standing without harm before God after this world ends. No matter if all your life after that you've led a spotless, perfect life. One jot, one iota of the law will not be removed. And if you failed in one point, you fail in all.

So our works mean absolutely nothing in regards to whether they can make us righteous before God. Only Jesus can do that for you.

God's mercy is displayed in sending his perfect son to save us from our sins, we who in no fraction of a way deserve anything from his hand (except for his wrath). His judgment is displayed in those to whom he did not choose to show mercy (I show mercy to whom I will show mercy, I show compassion to whom I will show compassion, yet Israel says my ways are unequal?) receiving what is due to them at his hand, the wrath of God against sinners.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

What if there are temporary and/or permanent factors, damage, baggage, circumstances, situations, ect, or whatever, that "stunt a person's growth" or forward moral progress or whatever...?

And do we do it or have to choose it, or does God do it, and it's really about us all yielding to that or Him...? (Jesus take the wheel, kind of thing) (complete surrender and submission) (and that is the only part we really need to worry about and/or be concerned with)...?

How much is our will and how much is His...?



What if some give up for a time due to those bumps...?

I'm not trying to argue, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you either, and I very much appreciate your posts, (thank you) I'm just very inquisitive is all...

God Bless!

This is not a contradiction in Gods character. When God pours out his wrath in Revelation we see the multitude in heaven praising Gods judgment as righteous and true. Lets sort out the facts and examine God's ways. From the creation the laws of sin and death are established. The 1st sin brought death and the penalty of sin is death. We all have sinned and fallen short and deserve to be banished from God's holy presence. In other words we are all in the burning building condemned rightly by our sins and God made a way for us all.
5 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 3
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Here we see the fate of those who do not make it and they are judged by the things they did in this life. The sin that kept them out of heaven was not receiving the mercy and grace available for them. This personal accountability for our eternal destiny is missing in your dilemma and seems to vindicate God of any contradiction in character. HIs mercy is the song we sing of those who have obtained it. It is real. Sanctification is a life long process that Paul notes is only complete at the Resurrection when this body rises and the nature of Adam is removed and only the nature of Christ remains.

 

[corinth77777]

The "way" is not the Law though, right...? But "Faith" and having or eventually coming to the kind of Faith Jesus Himself had, by walking in it, and also Love, and by following these and not being overly sin conscious, or your own works focused (which is what the Law does) will, in time, take care of sin, right...?

Faith and Love... Or Love, Hope, and Faith, the greatest of these being Love...

But Hope is a part of Faith I would think, and Faith a part of Hope, for it is near impossible for one to have one separate from, or apart from the other, right...?

Or, at least, that's what I think you seem to be saying... Am I getting that somewhat right at all...?

I just want us to get this right and have it now, or soon, perhaps I am just (being) impatient...? IDK...?

God Bless!

As to the question: is the way the law?
One of my thoughts have been that the law is the course or effect. However the Law is not the source. The source is the faith or faithfulness of Christ. The faith or faithfulness of Christ. So which ever one you choose try on for size. What would be an example of the faith and or faithfulness of Christ. As for the latter Christ lives forever to intercede for those who come to Him. As for His "faith" He obeyed His father unto death. He obeyed the father and the father did the work.
If it's by His faith...as His faith should be our faith then we obey the Father by believing on the son believing on the son should give rise to a faith that works by/through love.

However if by His faithfulness to continually be our high priest forever ..then our hearts have the ability to be worked on as it is in conflict with the habits brought on by having been led by the flesh.

And our lives have the ability to be delivered/saved from this life as we are being transformed to the image of His dear son. FROM GLORY TO GLORY. Purifying ourselves by living the word.


Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

 

[Chance7]

The way I understand it is, God gives a choice as to which side we will take portion of. If we remain in sin or become saved and fall into sin habitually, we will se God’s wrath.

However, if we Accept Christ through faith and begin to live our lives for him, the punishment will have been already “poured out” on him and we will be justified. Essentially, sealed and saved. If we confess him as lord and savior and believe in our hearts that God raised him from the dead.

Now, if we no longer live by the flesh but the spirit, we can’t sin all we want and get away with it but Paul said that we should strive to no longer sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate. The examples others gave are good and helpful. But if you listen to the reality of what actually happens in the Bible, your going to really like it. We aren’t just accepting salvation and being on our own way. We aren’t accepting salvation and trying to appease an angry God the whole time(it’s hard for me to say that with anxiety disorder because it can be hard for me to believe it myself)but, instead, we are now Children of God. We are in Christ to Grow. It’s not as simple as “grow morally or die”. Christ wants us to grow morally and be sanctified because it actually brings God great joy. It also does the same for us. You know, a lot of people who preach might stress that being a Cheistian is difficult. But honestly, what’s more difficult is trying to do it by your own strength. Once you come to Christ and let him have control, it can be scary, but honestly, the love you will feel is incredibly encouraging and it goes from a “heavy burden” to a “light yoke”. Jesus does the hardest part. All you have to do is follow.

(The Holy Spirit inspired me to write this. Not just from my own understanding)

 

[fhansen]

The Contradiction: Messages about God's Mercy, Love, Kindness, Compassion, Forgiveness and Grace, justification by Faith alone, and all that, that are all to clear (supposedly)... And then, messages about Judgment, that are also, all to clear (supposedly) (and/or on the "surface" anyway)...?

How do we reconcile these, for they seem opposed...?

Most of know the Grace, Mercy, Love, Compassion, ect, verses and ways and theology (well, most of us anyway) for that is even known and can be known in and by the heart, or a person's heart, or knowing hearts, (or the hearts of men/man) alone...

But what about the verses about Judgment...? that (to sum them all up), basically say that if you sin at all, you will not get into, nor ever see the Kingdom of God...?

This can be both Old or New Testament, doesn't matter, they basically all say that if you sin (at all) you do not "get in" (to Heaven)...

So, what do we do about this...?

Does it mean if you "continue in these sins by the end", or what...? But/and also because many say that logically it is impossible for any of us to be sinless, and I would agree with that, but the Messages about Judgment are still there, (along with Grace), and they are, or appear to be very, or all too clear, at least on the surface...?

What do we do about this...?

We do know that, almost nearly always, at least with us, that if we try to do away with and/or conquer sin in our own strength, it will not work, except for only deceiving a person into thinking they have, or do, or are, or can ever be, basically, 100% totally sinless...

What do we do about this...?

Ideas...? Thoughts...?

God Bless!

What you're recognizing in Scripture is the underlying basis for man's justice in the eyes of God. The will of man is necessarily involved. From Genesis through Revelation God wants none to perish, but man must choose, between good and evil, life and death, love vs hate/anger/cold selfish pride, God or no God in his life.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

alleged biblical contradictions come from our own lack understanding.

this one is no different...

 

[Neogaia777]

What is the "best way" to get rid of sin and sinful and wicked and evil desires in your or others lives...? What truly works, and what (way) is the most overall and truly effective...?

God Bless!

 

[corinth77777]

What is the "best way" to get rid of sin and sinful and wicked and evil desires in your or others lives...? What truly works, and what (way) is the most overall and truly effective...?

God Bless!

Dallas Willard..Died but He is the author of Spirit of the DISCIPLINES.

FASTING IS A WAY OF PRACTICING NOT GETTING EVERYTHING YOUR HEART DESIRES....PRAYING BEING INTENTIONAL ...PLAN FOR SUCCESS....COUNT THE COST.

 

[Neogaia777]

Dallas Willard..Died but He is the author of Spirit of the DISCIPLINES.

FASTING IS A WAY OF PRACTICING NOT GETTING EVERYTHING YOUR HEART DESIRES....PRAYING BEING INTENTIONAL ...PLAN FOR SUCCESS....COUNT THE COST.

Fasting can be one way of disciplining yourself, or gain a bit of "self-control", but there others, or other ways you can discipline your flesh, but, many of them have to do with you denying and starving and not gratifying your flesh though...

But, it's not easy, by any means... Especially in today's "I want and get to have it all, now and all right now", "instant gratification" society... And that is kind of, or very, counterproductive to any kind of real or true discipline and/or self-control...

God Bless!

 

[Oldmantook]

What does "practicing sin" or a certain kind of sin mean...?

Do you mean thinking about it and dwelling on it, then doing it anyway, intentionally, or knowing it is wrong with forethought and plans and intentions to do that sin anyway, involved...? Is that what you mean by practicing sin...?

Or what about a habit and/or addictions, does that automatically send a person to hell, even a small thing like caffeine, or sugar, or food addictions or being a glutton...?

What about "behavioral addictions", that some may not know is sinful but is sinful and is (a) sin, or they might know but don't care about it, saying stubbornly, "that's just the way I am, and if you don't like it, ect, ect" but their behavior is clearly wrong and sinful, and they might tell you it's not cause either they are right and you are wrong, or them just saying, that's just the way they are, so deal with it, basically...

You do know that any kind of wrong behavior, at all, is sin, and we all have wrong behavior at times, and can even be addicted to those kinds of behaviors, or were predisposed to them at some point in our our past, and/or "programmed" that way basically, and they try to justify it and or flat out even deny it, or that it is not (a) sin or whatever, or saying they are (always) right, and your wrong, and they are not sinning and or a sinner, when they clearly are, and it is (sin)...

What about that aspect of it...?

And, I would also like to add, and say, "And of course you don't ever make a practice of any kind of sin at all anymore right...?" And if your answer is "no", then, sorry if I have a hard time believing that....

God Bless!

Why don't you ask yourself what the practice of sin is? Can't you distinguish or discern the difference between habitual sin (if any) and occasional sin in your own life. Do you deny that the scriptures distinguish between occasional sin which can be forgiven versus habitual sin which if not repented of, are not forgiven. I suggest you start there and then you can answer your own questions.

 

[Neogaia777]

Why don't you ask yourself what the practice of sin is? Can't you distinguish or discern the difference between habitual sin (if any) and occasional sin in your own life. Do you deny that the scriptures distinguish between occasional sin which can be forgiven versus habitual sin which if not repented of, are not forgiven. I suggest you start there and then you can answer your own questions.

You mean like my habitual sin of smoking cigarettes...?

Cause I just don't think that will send to hell even if I smoke till the day I die or it kills me...

Or, what about behavior that is wrong, but is habitual... it works very much like an addiction does, and how many people have a problem with that, especially today...? And will not having perfect behavior (habitual sins) (or predisposed or pre-programed by life's) behavior's or sins, or what we used to call in my field that I used to work in's, (the mentally unwell's) "Behaviors"...

Are they sins and/or sinful...? Cause the Bible says they are... And they are habitual also... And all too many of them are "programmed" or pre-disposed to be that way, does that make them wrong or evil or sinful (not having perfect behavior)...?

And/cause many people's behavior and/or attitudes or whatever, that I see nearly everyone doing from time to time, are technically (and biblically) sinful and are evil by nature...

Do they go to hell if they cannot repent of all of it/them and not never ever do them anymore after that...?

God Bless!

 

[lesliedellow]

The Contradiction: Messages about God's Mercy, Love, Kindness, Compassion, Forgiveness and Grace, justification by Faith alone, and all that, that are all to clear (supposedly)... And then, messages about Judgment, that are also, all to clear (supposedly) (and/or on the "surface" anyway)...?

How do we reconcile these, for they seem opposed...?

Most of know the Grace, Mercy, Love, Compassion, ect, verses and ways and theology (well, most of us anyway) for that is even known and can be known in and by the heart, or a person's heart, or knowing hearts, (or the hearts of men/man) alone...

But what about the verses about Judgment...? that (to sum them all up), basically say that if you sin at all, you will not get into, nor ever see the Kingdom of God...?

This can be both Old or New Testament, doesn't matter, they basically all say that if you sin (at all) you do not "get in" (to Heaven)...

So, what do we do about this...?

Does it mean if you "continue in these sins by the end", or what...? But/and also because many say that logically it is impossible for any of us to be sinless, and I would agree with that, but the Messages about Judgment are still there, (along with Grace), and they are, or appear to be very, or all too clear, at least on the surface...?

What do we do about this...?

We do know that, almost nearly always, at least with us, that if we try to do away with and/or conquer sin in our own strength, it will not work, except for only deceiving a person into thinking they have, or do, or are, or can ever be, basically, 100% totally sinless...

What do we do about this...?

Ideas...? Thoughts...?

God Bless!

The only contradiction is with modern American evangelicalism’s idea that God is a big cuddly teddy bear in the sky, whose only attribute is “luv”. If that is completely at variance with the Bible’s representation of God’s nature, as it is, maybe it is about time so called evangelicals tried dusting off their Bibles, and reading them, instead of leaving them to decorate their book shelves, whilst manufacturing that big cuddly idol, who is more to their taste.

What is more, your understanding of Christian theology appears to be a heresy known as Pelagianism.

 

[fhansen]

What is the "best way" to get rid of sin and sinful and wicked and evil desires in your or others lives...? What truly works, and what (way) is the most overall and truly effective...?

God Bless!

God promises to help us overcome sin so first we must sincerely see our need for change, and then we must want it. From there we pray: ask, seek, and knock.

 

[Neogaia777]

The only contradiction is with modern American evangelicalism’s idea that God is a big cuddly teddy bear in the sky, whose only attribute is “luv”. If that is completely at variance with the Bible’s representation of God’s nature, as it is, maybe it is about time so called evangelicals tried dusting off their Bibles, and reading them, instead of leaving them to decorate their book shelves, whilst manufacturing that big cuddly idol, who is more to their taste.

First off, why are you so upset...?

And secondly, or anyway, or anyhow, there is scriptural support for both views, and you have not even tried to answer the OP or anything else talked about thus far in this thread that addresses and/or talks about that either...?

What is more, your understanding of Christian theology appears to be a heresy known as Pelagianism.

How so...?

Cause I'l be honest with you, I had to look that term up, and it's nothing even remotely close to what I believe and/or am saying at all...

How do you know what "my understanding or Christian Theology" is anyway...?

Please tell me how you have come to that determination and/or judgement please...?

God Bless!

 

[RDKirk]

The Contradiction: Messages about God's Mercy, Love, Kindness, Compassion, Forgiveness and Grace, justification by Faith alone, and all that, that are all to clear (supposedly)... And then, messages about Judgment, that are also, all to clear (supposedly) (and/or on the "surface" anyway)...?

How do we reconcile these, for they seem opposed...?

Most of know the Grace, Mercy, Love, Compassion, ect, verses and ways and theology (well, most of us anyway) for that is even known and can be known in and by the heart, or a person's heart, or knowing hearts, (or the hearts of men/man) alone...

But what about the verses about Judgment...? that (to sum them all up), basically say that if you sin at all, you will not get into, nor ever see the Kingdom of God...?

This can be both Old or New Testament, doesn't matter, they basically all say that if you sin (at all) you do not "get in" (to Heaven)...

So, what do we do about this...?

Does it mean if you "continue in these sins by the end", or what...? But/and also because many say that logically it is impossible for any of us to be sinless, and I would agree with that, but the Messages about Judgment are still there, (along with Grace), and they are, or appear to be very, or all too clear, at least on the surface...?

What do we do about this...?

We do know that, almost nearly always, at least with us, that if we try to do away with and/or conquer sin in our own strength, it will not work, except for only deceiving a person into thinking they have, or do, or are, or can ever be, basically, 100% totally sinless...

What do we do about this...?

Ideas...? Thoughts...?

God Bless!

I don't see a contradiction. There is no concept of "mercy" possible without there being a "judgment" as well, and there is no contradiction of both characteristics being within the same person. While it's possible for a person to be a merciless judge, one must be a judge to show mercy.

 

[fhansen]

You mean like my habitual sin of smoking cigarettes...?

Cause I just don't think that will send to hell even if I smoke till the day I die or it kills me...

Or, what about behavior that is wrong, but is habitual... it works very much like an addiction does, and how many people have a problem with that, especially today...? And will not having perfect behavior (habitual sins) (or predisposed or pre-programed by life's) behavior's or sins, or what we used to call in my field that I used to work in's, (the mentally unwell's) "Behaviors"...

Are they sins and/or sinful...? Cause the Bible says they are... And they are habitual also... And all too many of them are "programmed" or pre-disposed to be that way, does that make them wrong or evil or sinful (not having perfect behavior)...?

And/cause many people's behavior and/or attitudes or whatever, that I see nearly everyone doing from time to time, are technically (and biblically) sinful and are evil by nature...

Do they go to hell if they cannot repent of all of it/them and not never ever do them anymore after that...?

God Bless!

Teachings that I'm familiar with maintain that a person can become less culpable for sin as it becomes habitual, addictive, etc