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Featured The Contradiction: Messages about God's Mercy, Love, and Grace and Messages about Judgment...?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Neogaia777, Nov 23, 2018.

  1. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    The Contradiction: Messages about God's Mercy, Love, Kindness, Compassion, Forgiveness and Grace, justification by Faith alone, and all that, that are all to clear (supposedly)... And then, messages about Judgment, that are also, all to clear (supposedly) (and/or on the "surface" anyway)...?

    How do we reconcile these, for they seem opposed...?

    Most of know the Grace, Mercy, Love, Compassion, ect, verses and ways and theology (well, most of us anyway) for that is even known and can be known in and by the heart, or a person's heart, or knowing hearts, (or the hearts of men/man) alone...

    But what about the verses about Judgment...? that (to sum them all up), basically say that if you sin at all, you will not get into, nor ever see the Kingdom of God...?

    This can be both Old or New Testament, doesn't matter, they basically all say that if you sin (at all) you do not "get in" (to Heaven)...

    So, what do we do about this...?

    Does it mean if you "continue in these sins by the end", or what...? But/and also because many say that logically it is impossible for any of us to be sinless, and I would agree with that, but the Messages about Judgment are still there, (along with Grace), and they are, or appear to be very, or all too clear, at least on the surface...?

    What do we do about this...?

    We do know that, almost nearly always, at least with us, that if we try to do away with and/or conquer sin in our own strength, it will not work, except for only deceiving a person into thinking they have, or do, or are, or can ever be, basically, 100% totally sinless...

    What do we do about this...?

    Ideas...? Thoughts...?

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
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  2. mukk_in

    mukk_in Yankees fan Supporter

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    A great post and difficult to respond to as well. I actually don't see any contradiction. God's justice and wrath are what made way for His love and salvation in Jesus:).
     
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  3. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Is one or the other either a true or else false gospel...? or does, and/or is, or does, the true Gospel, lay somewhere in the middle or in-between...? or would that be trying to "mix" the two, and it or that would be a false gospel as well...?

    Let's all try to work together to figure this out peacefully OK...?

    God Bless!
     
  4. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    You must be mixing them somehow to see them that way...?

    Could you explain how you are doing that...? or how what you said is so for you...? and maybe, for the rest of us...? or please explain, in detail, if possible, what you mean exactly...?

    God Bless!
     
  5. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Do you mean His "past" wrath or whatever, paved the way for Him to "different" (more loving, kind, caring, compassionate, and all that) now or in the future after what Christ did...?

    And he is not angry (about and/or over sin, or whatever, our "human proclivities" and/or nature and/or shortcomings, inabilities, and all that) anymore, or what...?

    God Bless!
     
  6. mukk_in

    mukk_in Yankees fan Supporter

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    Well, it's God's judgment and wrath against sin (Roman 2:1-11) that necessitated atonement (Hebrews 9:13-10:18). It was His love that led Him to sacrifice His Own Son for us (John 3:16). Think of it as a Judge who passes a judgment but pays the penalty on our behalf because we couldn't afford it. I know it's a lot more complicated than that, but that's the best that I can do. I'm sure you'll have better inputs here:).
     
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  7. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I just want to talk and discuss...

    Do you mean that believer does not have to ever be concerned about sin...?

    God Bless!
     
  8. mukk_in

    mukk_in Yankees fan Supporter

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    You got me there brother. I'm just a preacher not a theologian. Others will help you out:).
     
  9. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Thanks for responding and talking to and with me anyway...

    God Bless!
     
  10. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    I see it that way as well. However we reap what we sow. I cannot explain the contradiction other than to say it teaches us but thats really just a guess, i have no revelation. I live by Gods grace today, and im just a man.
     
  11. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Thanks for your reply anyway...

    God Bless!
     
  12. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God's judgment for some ... is God's lovingkindness to others.

    Think of it this way.

    All the world is a seashore ... and God's people happily build sand-castles all day long. But some among the people take delight in knocking down the sand-castles of others, rather than building their own. For God to truly love His godly people, He must remove the despoilers from among them. That particular judgement is a blessing to those content to abide in love with one another.

    Another analogy ...

    Sin is an illness, 100% contagious and deadly. God offers the cure for the infection, but He doesn't force it upon people. However, He does, ultimately, remove those who will not avail themselves of the cure ... from those who have. Again, one man's judgement is another man's blessing.
     
  13. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    God's judgment is that we are "all" very, very bad and deserve nothing good at all, and his standard is 100% absolute perfection that none of us can achieve or reach perfectly and/or fully ever, in this world or while we are "here" in this fallen reality/place...

    Now, what is "beyond that" is what I'm hoping we can discuss and figure out here, or on here, or in this thread (hopefully)...

    Now do you have any thoughts or ideas about that maybe...?

    How God's judgment is loving kindness for others, more specifically maybe...?

    Much thanks,

    God Bless!
     
  14. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I posted this/these in another thread, and I thought or think they could be helpful here:



    I am fully convinced that the problem and issue of "sin" is not so much about our life or lives "there" but only "here" mainly, and has little or nothing to do with our, especially individual salvation "there"... Or at the very least we cannot know for sure how much it has to do with each one of us, each individually "there" anyway, so we should "err of the side of caution" don't you think, and judge no one or no man individually or "specifically"...?

    I think the problem of sin is more about and is for us all "collectively here" or still here, and not so much there, "at all" maybe, (like I said, we do not know, so should err on the side of caution in any case)...

    But collectively and "here" it is very much about us and our lives and our world "here", and if we don't do something about it soon, or make the change(s) God wants us to make "here" "soon", then I fear it will all be destroyed and all come crashing down on us at some point, with very, and all to much, very devastating consequences for us all "here", or still here, or our children, ect...

    God Bless!

    However we do judge those, sometimes, and only when we have to, individually or specifically, "within our church or churches or body of believers" only, and only when we have to, but this is not to condemn them, but is with the hope that they will come or be led to repentance, and be able to be one of us, or one with us again at some point, so this is really not judging their individual salvation, or saved state permanently, for that would be evil...

    But we do sometimes judge them, tell them they cannot be a part of us anymore, or at least, for now, till they take care of that thing or sin, that they got ousted for in the first place, and this is done (only with major sins) and mainly for the "rest of the body of believers" also (along with the hope that one ousted would be led to repentance and be able to come back) And is not so much a matter of a person's individual salvation of judging their personal relationship and/or individual standing with God...

    God Bless!
     
  15. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    While I think that we read it this way most of the time, ... when I look at the whole of the drama presented in the scriptures, I tend to see ...

    1) An advanced intelligence who creates a suitable home to seed intelligent life.

    2) Knowledge by this intelligence that moral progress within this seeded population will only occur as those seeded find it to be desirable ... and that that desire will need to be encouraged.

    3) The offer of a path to moral progress which, though available to all, is not desired by all.

    4) The acceptance of those wishing to move forward morally, ... and the fortitude to allow those who don't wish to progress morally to die out (or to be weeded out).

    5) The propagation of a morally advanced future with those who have stepped up to the plate.
     
  16. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Think about it ...

    One-third of the angels (another created intelligence) ... will NOT move forward with God.

    A similar portion of humanity, more or less, will NOT move forward with God.

    One's standing with God is not so much about what you have done, ... as it is ... what path are you willing to take.

    God welcomes those who are willing to move forward with Him.

    Those who are content to remain in their moral imperfection will come to their natural end.

    Within this paradigm, the concepts of judgment, mercy, grace, love, etc. all come into play.
     
  17. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    So, salvation is based on our own moral progress, or those who choose to make forward moral progress, or our "own moral goodness"...? Cause a person's forward moral progress is not "equal opportunity" for everyone across the board either...? And what about sin and sinning sometimes or making mistakes sometimes, does a believer have to be concerned about that at all...?

    And is it based on what "we do" or choose to do (making the moral forward progress) or what God does, or already has done in us and with us...?

    Much Thanks,

    God Bless!
     
  18. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    What path is that...? The one of making forward moral progress...? or what...?

    And is it based on us and our work, or our choosing, or His (God's)...?

    Again, that is not equal opportunity for everyone by far, so each must be judged based on that, and "all" the very numerous and specific details of every single person's individual case, or on a case by case basis...

    How so...? Can you explain what you mean here...?

    Much Thanks,

    God Bless!
     
  19. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes ... those who choose not to progress morally ... are not going to develop to the point that God desires ...
    What matters is the path one is taking, not about the bumps along the way ...
     
  20. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    What if there are temporary and/or permanent factors, damage, baggage, circumstances, situations, ect, or whatever, that "stunt a person's growth" or forward moral progress or whatever...?

    And do we do it or have to choose it, or does God do it, and it's really about us all yielding to that or Him...? (Jesus take the wheel, kind of thing) (complete surrender and submission) (and that is the only part we really need to worry about and/or be concerned with)...?

    How much is our will and how much is His...?

    What if some give up for a time due to those bumps...?

    I'm not trying to argue, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you either, and I very much appreciate your posts, (thank you) I'm just very inquisitive is all...

    God Bless!
     
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