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The concept sin.

Discussion in 'Hamartiology' started by Chili, May 19, 2002.

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  1. Chili

    Chili Member

    Is it religion specific or is it universal and the same for all people around the world? In other words, can an athiest or a Buddhist sin and if so can he be convicted of sin to be justified in Christ(Gal.2:17)?
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  2. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson I Like Traffic Lights

    According to the book of Romans, we ALL sin. If we take Christianity as being true, which I do, we must come to the conclusion that sin exists (people miss the mark of God's perfection and holiness) whether other people believe in it or not.

    Kinda like a person said, "I don't believe in God, so He doesn't exist" - a person's belief doesn't make something Truth or not.
  3. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

    This is a very hard question, because there are two distinct layers at which you can consider this.

    First off, at some layer, there's the "universal" truth. Acting against God's will is sin, whether or not you're aware of God's will.

    Secondly, there's the stuff where knowledge *does* matter. If I have been raised with the false belief that God considers the keeping of pets to be a sin, and I keep a pet, *I AM SINNING*. Even though the act is not *inherently* sinful, my decision to act in this way *despite* my beliefs about God's will is, itself, a rebellion.


    That's really cool, and I don't think I'd ever quite put this together like that. This explains all sorts of weird results we've seen through the ages where people sincerely sought God's opinion, and concluded that something was, as they'd been told, sinful... Perhaps it would have been sinful for them since they still believed it to be so.

    My instinct is to guess that this explains all of the "victimless" sins; sins which are not characterized by a lack of love for God or man *except* in that they're considered sinful.

    So, at some level, acting in a way you believe to be immoral is wrong *even if your belief is incorrect*. Neat, huh?
  4. Lion Heart

    Lion Heart Member

    First of all, what does God's word say sin is.

    It is a breaking of the known WILL of God.
    1 Jhn 3
    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Whosoever commits sin is a servant to sin;
    Jhn 8
    34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

    Sin causes death
    1 Cor 15
    56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
    Jhn 8
    24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

    Sin is not of God
    8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;

    Sin demands retribution
    Rom 6
    23 For the wages of sin is death;

    The Blood of Jesus cleanseth from sin
    1 Jhn 1
    7........, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    Jesus came to save sinners
    Mt 1
    21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    Jesus came to sanctify, sinners
    Heb 13
    12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

    Jesus came to redeem sinners
    Gal 3
    13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law ,

    Jesus, keeps his people from sinning
    1 Jhn 3
    9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    There is one SIN which is unforiveable
    Mk 3
    28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
    29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness , but is in danger of eternal damnation:

    The SIN of blaspheme is rejecting what the Holy Spirit teaches to be true
    Jhn 14
    16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
    17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
    18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
    Jhn 15
    26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost , whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
    Jhn 16
    7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the [BComforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
    8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
    9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
    10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
    11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
    13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come .
    14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you.
    15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.

    The Holy Spirit testifies to every person, that they are a sinner.

    He further testifies that all sinners can be made righteous by FAITH in Jesus Christ, who has shed His blood as justification for their Sins.

    And that there is a comming judgement, where no one will escape the wrath of God upon ingodly sinners, whose names are not written in the Lambs Book of Life.

    God is offering a FREE Gift today to everyone that will receive it.


    If this is true, then anyone can be forgiven of their SIN.


  5. Chili

    Chili Member

    No objection but does this not make it religion specific? That is, if sin is real why does it never bring a Buddhist to Christ according in Gal.2:17? Why must we be convicted by the law in seeking to be justified (eg. salvation is for sinners only).

    All sinners sin but he who is in Christ (such as Christians) cannot sin (1Jn.3:9)
  6. Chili

    Chili Member

    Pretty nifty girl.

    I ask the question because I think that sin is religion specific but the laws are written upon our hearts as if in stone from where they must serve for the conviction of sin. So an atheist is included but a Buddhist is excluded. Of course, they is always natural law but that is different.
  7. Chili

    Chili Member

    Holy smoke Richard is that a sermon or what?

    How about if told you that sin is illusion and if we are set free from the law there is no sin? That is, no law no sin! I am thinking of 1Jn.3:9 here and also Gal.5:4 think where it is wrong to seek our justification in the law if we have been set free in Christ. Or go on to Rev.14:12 and compare verse 12 and 13.

    So this would mean that we are set free from the law not only forgiveness but also redemption of sin is possible.
  8. BigEd

    BigEd an adopted child of God

    Mt. 22:36-40 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' [Deut. 6:5] This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbour as yourself.'[Lev. 19:18] All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

    When jesus answer this question, he helped to deffine what was lawful, but also what is sinful. when we don't love God , when we don't love our nieghbor we sin. It as simple as that.
    None of us, perfectly follow this (only christ did), so all have sinned, be it christian, be buddhist, or atheist.
  9. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

    "Sin is lawlessness." 1 Jn 3:4.

    Sin is when anyone lives APART from God's law.
  10. NRutman

    NRutman New Member

    I think some errors have been made here that I will attempt to bring to light. To have a good understanding of sin, let us go back to where it originated in man: the Garden of Eden.

    First of all, notice that the first sin was clearly sin. God gave a commandment, Adam and Eve broke it, and they were therefore named sinners. Notice that if Adam and Eve would have claimed to be Buddist, the facts would not be any different: God gave a commandment, Adam and Eve broke it. Notice that it didn't matter in any way what Adam and Eve THOUGHT, for the facts remain: God gave a command, Adam and Eve broke it.

    This then is sin: to break one of God's commandments. It doesn't matter how much or how little we know. Before the White Throne, both the plea of ignorance and insanity matter not. There is a just Judge ruling this court: the One who declares guilty or not guilty; where every sin receives the charge of guilty and is punishable by death. However, there is a glorious Witness who is on our side (if we are Christians). There is One who pleads before the Judge under oath that our sins have already been punished, and that double jeopardy is undeserved. This One is Christ, who became our sacrifice out of love. Therefore, there is only one variable when it comes to saved or damned, and that is whether Christ's blood was spilt for you. If you believe that He is Savior, then be assured that He has felt a holy wrath which is no longer to be paid unto you.

    Therefore, situations matter not save one: are you in the redeeming love of Christ? If so, your sins are paid for. If not, look out!

    Hope that helps,

    P.S. For the record, I would disagree with those who say it is possible to live sinlessly on this earth. But seeing as how I don't think that argument would be benefitial nor appropriate for this post, I will abstain. :)
  11. Blessed-one

    Blessed-one a long journey ahead

    i believe that conscience is put into everyone of us by God, so the attitude towards sin must be universal, however much it varies.

    take murder with an intention for example, is it a sin? guilty? where does our law come from? (by that i mean the law set up by judges and the government) not every one of the people who makes laws is religious.
  12. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    Hmm..  I think of coarse it makes it religion specific, is you are to classify Christianity as a religion.  But the thing to consider is that Christianity in this case, is the only true religion.  No others are real, becasue they do not lift up or follow a real God.  They are false, as are the gods they worship.  Being the only true religion, or form of worship, to the only true and existing God, yes it is specific, but it is also relevant to everyone wethe they follow or reject God, or the religion of Christianity.
  13. Homie

    Homie Gods servant

    Sin is sin wheter you are christian or not. Conscience helps us (christian and pagan) to determine wheter our actions are wrong or not. If you purposely do something that would violate the 2 first amendments you have sinned.
  14. mjwhite

    mjwhite Member

    Dear Chili,

    you asked,
    No objection but does this not make it religion specific? That is, if sin is real why does it never bring a Buddhist to Christ according in Gal.2:17? Why must we be convicted by the law in seeking to be justified (eg. salvation is for sinners only).

    I guess I do not quite understand what you are asking. Some Buddhists do come to Christ. But in Gal 2:17, Paul is talking about those who already have come to Christ, not those who have not yet come. What Paul is telling us is that sin is not of Christ even if we are.

    But do not need to be convicted by the law after we are justified, nor should we be. We should be convicted by ourown hearts through the Spirit.

    The reason sin though convicting of a heart does not bring the person to Christ is because that is not what sin or conviction is for. The Law shows us we need a savior but we suppress it so we can live under the god we choose and therefore control. But when the Gospel comes with the call of the Spirit, we find we can no longer serve the old useless gods that we used to appease ourselves since we now face the One True God in the face of Jesus on the cross.

    Does that answer your question?
  15. mjwhite

    mjwhite Member

    Dear Chili,

    you said,
    How about if told you that sin is illusion and if we are set free from the law there is no sin? That is, no law no sin! I am thinking of 1Jn.3:9 here and also Gal.5:4 think where it is wrong to seek our justification in the law if we have been set free in Christ. Or go on to Rev.14:12 and compare verse 12 and 13.

    So this would mean that we are set free from the law not only forgiveness but also redemption of sin is possible.

    I think that the word 'illusion' isn't the one you are looking for. But those who are set freee from sin are no longer under the law, in that you are correct.
  16. Chili

    Chili Member

    Yes, sorry, I use the word "illusion" in a liberal way and thanks for your kind reproval.

    . . . and of course, when we are set free from the law we can no longer sin which affirms that the law was given to Moses not to stop sin but for the conviction of sin. Therefore, "it was for liberty that Christ freed us" makes sense to the redeemed (Gal.5:1-4).

    Now why can't we just claim that as true and do what we want as Augustine suggested with "be set free in Christ can do what you want" (sorry if that is a paraphrase).
  17. Chili

    Chili Member


    Good point, it was in retrospect that the Galations understood this message but should we (as Christians)  not be as understanding as the Galations were?

    And yes, we used to do the things we did not want to do and needed divine cirumcision to make the flesh strong.
  18. Chili

    Chili Member

    It's OK with me but try telling that to a Jew. :)
  19. aforchrist33

    aforchrist33 Member

  20. Chili

    Chili Member

    I agree and there is no condemnation if not saved (that is, if they are not under the conviction of the law).
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