The Coming Seven Year Tribulation

[Steve Petersen]

R. Kattina said: Six thousand years shall the world exist, and one [thousand, the seventh], it shall be desolate, as it is written, And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. Abaye said: it will be desolate two [thousand], as it is said, After two days will he revive us: in the third day, he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

It has been taught in accordance with R. Kattina: Just as the seventh year is one year of release in seven, so is the world: one thousand years out of seven shall be fallow, as it is written, And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day,' and it is further said, A Psalm and song for the Sabbath day, meaning the day that is altogether Sabbath — and it is also said, For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past.

The Tanna debe Eliyyahu teaches: The world is to exist six thousand years. In the first two thousand there was desolation; two thousand years the Torah flourished; and the next two thousand years is the Messianic era, but through our many iniquities all these years have been lost.

Elijah said to Rab Judah, the brother of R. Salia the pious: 'The world shall exist not less than eighty five jubilees, and in the last jubilee the son of David will come.' He asked him, 'At the beginning or at the end?' — He replied, 'I do not know.' 'Shall [this period] be completed or not?' — 'I do not know,' he answered. R. Ashi said: He spoke thus to him, 'Before that, do not expect him; afterwards thou mayest await him.' - b. Sanhedrin 97a-b

 

[iamlamad]

And this is for you the sign [of the coming of Messiah]: that you see a septenary that begins with rain; in the second year, arrows of famine are sent out; in the third, there is great famine; and in the fourth - neither hunger nor plenty; in the sixth, great plenty, and a star will grow from the east with a staff on its head, and that is the star of Israel...and if it lights up, that is for the benefit of Israel, and then will sprout up Messiah ben David. And this is the sign for you: when you see the eastern Nero [i.e., emperor] in Damascus has fallen, and the kingdom of the Children of the East has fallen, then will salvation sprout up for Israel, and the Messiah ben David will come, and they will ascend to Jerusalem and enjoy it... - Nistarot R. Shi'mon ben Yohai, Beit ha Midrash 3:82

It is sort of like a foreign language: no clue as to the real meaning!

 

[Douggg]

WE as humans are a trinity of Spirit, soul and body. I think it makes good sense, since God is a triune God, that He also is Spirit, soul and body. You can disagree if you wish. However, it is an absolute fact that God has a body that can be seen. And God has feelings, intellect, and a WILL. And that the Holy Spirit is a member of the Godhead.

In the trinity - Father, Son, Holy Spirit - Jesus. the Son, came forth from the Father.

In your statement that we humans are a trinity of Spirit, soul, and body - if so, which of those came forth from the other ?

 

[Douggg]

My spirit is ME. My soul is ME. And my body is ME.

Explain the difference between your spirit and your soul.

I would say somewhat differently that human beings are spirit beings incorporated (infused may be a better word) into a body.

And our soul is each of us specifically as spirit beings. In other words, you and I would both be spirit beings - but your soul is uniquely you. And my soul is uniquely me. Your body is uniquely you. And my body is uniquely me.

You exist as you. And I exist as me. But both of us, in common, are spirit beings that continue to exist beyond these corruptible bodies.

I would say our spirit reflects the outpouring of our soul. So when a person is feeling down, their soul is troubled. Can you relate to that?

in the song, Victory in Jesus.... and then I cried dear Jesus come and heal my broken spirit...

 

[iamlamad]

In the trinity - Father, Son, Holy Spirit - Jesus. the Son, came forth from the Father.

In your statement that we humans are a trinity of Spirit, soul, and body - if so, which of those came forth from the other ?

I think you have "came forth" stuck in your brain. Flip the record! Change the channel!

It was NOT the Father or first person of the Godhead that came to be born of a virgin. Neither was it the Holy Spirit. It was Jesus that left the throne in heaven, laid aside His Godly attributes, humbled Himself and became a man.

In case you have not noticed, we as humans don't have the power to separate our body from our soul and spirit unless the body ceases to function.

However, with God all things are possible.

 

[iamlamad]

Explain the difference between your spirit and your soul.

I would say somewhat differently that human beings are spirit beings incorporated (infused may be a better word) into a body.

And our soul is each of us specifically as spirit beings. In other words, you and I would both be spirit beings - but your soul is uniquely you. And my soul is uniquely me. Your body is uniquely you. And my body is uniquely me.

You exist as you. And I exist as me. But both of us, in common, are spirit beings that continue to exist beyond these corruptible bodies.

I would say our spirit reflects the outpouring of our soul. So when a person is feeling down, their soul is troubled. Can you relate to that?

in the song, Victory in Jesus.... and then I cried dear Jesus come and heal my broken spirit...

Songs are not necessarily correct as per doctrine. However, a human spirit with Adam's DNA - meaning not born again, is certainly broken.

After God created Adam's body, He breathed into Adam LIFE. That life was a human spirit. When Adam opened his eyes and became alive, his soul was empty: no memory, no anything else. Our soul is what makes each person different: memories, experiences, personality: each human is different. And that difference is mainly in the area of the soul.

In fact, as the brain of a child grows, dendrites and neurons begin to form, and soon subroutines develop - such as a child learning to roll over. My point is, each brain is wired differently. There are probably billions of dendrites and neurons, and each neuron may be connected to ten thousand other neurons, making trillions of connections - every human different. And it is with these differently wired brains that each human's soul works with as far as memories, intellect, and will. Therefore I think we can agree that each person's soul is different. God has created the human race so magnificently that in all the humans ever born, there has never been two exactly alike.

For a born again person, our spirits were created by God so are created perfectly. And the Holy Spirit dwells in our human spirit. Even if our soul becomes depressed, our spirit person knows the answer: Worship and praise God. I would therefore not say that our spirit reflects the feelings of our soul. I would say the spirits of born again believers is constantly trying to get the rest of us, our soul and body, to serve God with everything we have.

 

[Douggg]

After God created Adam's body, He breathed into Adam LIFE. That life was a human spirit.

The KJV doesn't say "a human spirit". It says....

KJV
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

For a born again person, our spirits were created by God so are created perfectly. And the Holy Spirit dwells in our human spirit.

Since Adam became a living soul - not a human spirit - what is borne again is the spiritual rebirth of the the soul. Where your theology goes wrong is you have non-biblical terminology - calling what should be the soul, as the human spirit.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you - are you meaning spirit being, specifically a human spirit being? If so, you need to include in the word "being".

It is not the soul about the human spirit, but the spiritual condition of the soul. Sin causes physical death and if not removed from the soul by the blood of Christ and born again by the Holy Spirit, causes a person to eternally die.

It is not the human spirit that give eternal life to the Christian, but the Holy Spirit.

Even if our soul becomes depressed, our spirit person knows the answer: Worship and praise God.

No, that is not biblical.

would therefore not say that our spirit reflects the feelings of our soul. I would say the spirits of born again believers is constantly trying to get the rest of us, our soul and body, to serve God with everything we have.

What is born again is the soul. The soul is redeemed from the power of sin, when a person receives Jesus as their savior, and their soul has eternal life at that point. What Christians, subsequently are waiting for is the redemption of our bodies -either in the resurrection or the rapture.

The secular world is who speaks of the human spirit - because they don't want to recognize the condition of their soul and nor do they want salvation in Christ.

 

[Douggg]

I think you have "came forth" stuck in your brain.

Yes, I do....

 

[Douggg]

It was NOT the Father or first person of the Godhead that came to be born of a virgin. Neither was it the Holy Spirit. It was Jesus that left the throne in heaven, laid aside His Godly attributes, humbled Himself and became a man.

In case you have not noticed, we as humans don't have the power to separate our body from our soul and spirit unless the body ceases to function.

The Lord of Heaven did not quit being God because he entered this world to be born of Mary. He added to being God, by becoming the Son of man.

 

[iamlamad]

The KJV doesn't say "a human spirit". It says....

KJV
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

In Hebrew, "nĕshamah" means, "breath" but it is also means "Spirit." it was much more than breath: it was the Spirit that gave life to Adam.

Since Adam became a living soul - not a human spirit - what is borne again is the spiritual rebirth of the the soul. Where your theology goes wrong is you have non-biblical terminology - calling what should be the soul, as the human spirit.

Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the New Testament. Did you not know that now we form doctrine from the New Testament. It is a much later and fuller revelation.

If you cared to look into the Hebrew word there for "soul" you would find:

he KJV translates Strong's H5315 in the following manner: soul (475x), life (117x), person (29x), mind (15x), heart (15x), creature (9x), body (8x), himself (8x), yourselves (6x), dead (5x), will (4x), desire (4x), man (3x), themselves (3x), any (3x), appetite (2x), miscellaneous (47x).​

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul tells us we are a triune being. Moses told us we are created in God's image and after His likeness. Ever since the New Testament, we have known that God also is a triune being. It does not take a rocket scientist to understand that God is Spirit, Soul and Body.

So Adam became a living BEING or a living PERSON. But once God breathed a Spirit of life into Him, He then was a spirit being living in a flesh body. And God created this being with a soul. From the New Testament we know the spirit and soul are tied very tightly together.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you - are you meaning spirit being, specifically a human spirit being? If so, you need to include in the word "being".

If you think the word "being" must follow, let it be so. Man is a spirit being, possessing a soul (mind, will, emotions, affections) and lives for a while in a flesh and blood body.

I would not say that man is a soul being.

It is not the soul about the human spirit, but the spiritual condition of the soul. Sin causes physical death and if not removed from the soul by the blood of Christ and born again by the Holy Spirit, causes a person to eternally die.

It is not the human spirit that give eternal life to the Christian, but the Holy Spirit.
No, that is not biblical.

It is the Holy Spirit creating a NEW human spirit that causes that person to become "born again" or born of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not create a new soul; He creates a new human Spirit. When the disciples saw Jesus at night, walking on the water, they thought it was a SPIRIT, not a soul.

What is born again is the soul. The soul is redeemed from the power of sin, when a person receives Jesus as their savior, and their soul has eternal life at that point. What Christians, subsequently are waiting for is the redemption of our bodies -either in the resurrection or the rapture.

The secular world is who speaks of the human spirit - because they don't want to recognize the condition of their soul and nor do they want salvation in Christ.

Sorry, but you are mistaken. Our memories for example, and our intellect are part of our soul, and this part of a human DOES NOT GET born again. We are told to RENEW our mind, but that is OUR JOB. It is the human spirit that the Holy Spirit renews. And by the way, it is our our spirit man (Paul's "old man") that the Holy Spirit puts to death.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

It is our spirit that is born again. It is Paul's "inward man." The Holy Spirit resides in our Spirit, not in our soul.

From the web:
If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17

This isn’t talking about your body. If you were a man before you accepted Christ, you were still a man afterwards. Your body didn’t change. And your soul, which is what the Bible calls the mental-emotional part of you, didn’t automatically change either. It’s subject to change, but you have to renew your mind to experience change in your mind and emotions.

But in the spirit, you became a brand-new species of being. Your spirit is totally new. There isn’t an old sin nature left in you.

I know this comes as a complete shock to many of you who have been indoctrinated in the-old-nature-versus-the-new-nature theology. Most Christians have been taught to believe that after salvation, they are still the same at their core, and they live the rest of their lives trying to restrain this old nature. They believe they have two natures. That’s schizophrenic, and it produces Christians who are nothing like Christ.

I could not have said it better. The site is : www.awmi.net/reading/teaching-articles/spirit-soul-and-body/

 

[Douggg]

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit [ATTITUDE]
and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

It is the Holy Spirit creating a NEW human spirit that causes that person to become "born again" or born of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not create a new soul; He creates a new human Spirit. When the disciples saw Jesus at night, walking on the water, they thought it was a SPIRIT, not a soul.

No, creating a new person. First, a person is borne again:that is, their soul is redeemed from the power of sin. Then at the time of the resurrection and rapture, the body is redeemed. The spirit a person has is simply the attitude they have.

Sorry, but you are mistaken. Our memories for example, and our intellect are part of our soul, and this part of a human DOES NOT GET born again. We are told to RENEW our mind, but that is OUR JOB. It is the human spirit that the Holy Spirit renews. And by the way, it is our our spirit man (Paul's "old man") that the Holy Spirit puts to death.

memories and intellect are functions as the mind. As a person's body grows old and the flesh corrupted by sin deteriorates - a person can lose their memory and mental capacity.

Renewing of the mind, in context of what the bible is saying, is speaking about we way the think in terms of being aligned with our growth in Christ.

The Holy Spirit, residing in the soul of a saved person, certainly affects that person's spirit - attitude.

The new man is the inner man, the redeemed soul, which is at constant war with the old man which is the flesh, where sin resides. It is the flesh that it is appointed once for man to die, except for the one generation that won't die, but be changed in the twinkling of an eye, which is referring to the rapture.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

It is just saying that being borne again is not a case of having a new physical body.... but something that takes place at the core of the person, that is, the person's soul.

Revelation 5:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

But in the spirit, you became a brand-new species of being. Your spirit is totally new. There isn’t an old sin nature left in you.

As long as your body is fused to your soul, you (and everyone else) will commit acts of sin because sin resides in the flesh. The flesh of even Christians eventually die, because the wages of sin is death. To become perfectly sinless, the body has to be redeemed, incorruptible.

It is our spirit that is born again. It is Paul's "inward man." The Holy Spirit resides in our Spirit, not in our soul.

You couldn't be more wrong. The Holy Spirit resides in the Christian's soul - forever.

Revelation 5:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

 

[iamlamad]

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit [ATTITUDE]
and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Sorry, but that is not in the list. It is FAR more likely to mean a human spirit. That fits with the context. From Strongs:

The KJV translates Strong's G4151 in the following manner: Spirit (111x), Holy Ghost (89x), Spirit (of God) (13x), Spirit (of the Lord) (5x), (My) Spirit (3x), Spirit (of truth) (3x), Spirit (of Christ) (2x), human (spirit) (49x), (evil) spirit (47x), spirit (general) (26x), spirit (8x), (Jesus' own) spirit (6x), (Jesus' own) ghost (2x), miscellaneous (21x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
   1. sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the "Holy" Spirit)
      
      
   2. sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of "Truth")
      
      
   3. never referred to as a depersonalised force
2. the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
   1. the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
      
      
   2. the soul
3. a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
   1. a life giving spirit
      
      
   2. a human soul that has left the body
      
      
   3. a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
      1. used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
         
         
      2. the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
4. the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
   1. the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
5. a movement of air (a gentle blast)
   1. of the wind, hence the wind itself
      
      
   2. breath of nostrils or

No, creating a new person. First, a person is borne again:that is, their soul is redeemed from the power of sin. Then at the time of the resurrection and rapture, the body is redeemed. The spirit a person has is simply the attitude they have.

You can believe this if you choose - and it seems you have. But you are disagreeing with most of the Christian world.

memories and intellect are functions as the mind. As a person's body grows old and the flesh corrupted by sin deteriorates - a person can lose their memory and mental capacity.

Renewing of the mind, in context of what the bible is saying, is speaking about we way the think in terms of being aligned with our growth in Christ.

The Holy Spirit, residing in the soul of a saved person, certainly affects that person's spirit - attitude.

Sorry, the Holy Spirit resides in our Spirit, not our soul.

The new man is the inner man, the redeemed soul, which is at constant war with the old man which is the flesh, where sin resides. It is the flesh that it is appointed once for man to die, except for the one generation that won't die, but be changed in the twinkling of an eye, which is referring to the rapture.

As I said, you can believe this if you wish, while most of the Christian world would not.

You are confusing the human spirit and soul. It is true that in the bible "soul" is used as an entire person, as well as that part of man that thinks and wills and feels.

It is just saying that being borne again is not a case of having a new physical body.... but something that takes place at the core of the person, that is, the person's soul.

Revelation 5:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Here the word "soul" is used for the entire unseen part of a man.

As long as your body is fused to your soul, you (and everyone else) will commit acts of sin because sin resides in the flesh. The flesh of even Christians eventually die, because the wages of sin is death. To become perfectly sinless, the body has to be redeemed, incorruptible.

You couldn't be more wrong. The Holy Spirit resides in the Christian's soul - forever.

Revelation 5:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

We will just have to disagree.

John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the [Holy] Spirit is spirit.

It is the SPIRIT that is born again.

 

[Douggg]

You are confusing the human spirit and soul. It is true that in the bible "soul" is used as an entire person, as well as that part of man that thinks and wills and feels.

The problem is not with me. The term "soul" is what is in the bible. The term "human spirit" is not in the bible.

You can believe this if you choose - and it seems you have. But you are disagreeing with most of the Christian world.

I have never heard another person use the term "human spirit" in a discussion, regarding being born again, other than you. So I think it is you who is disagreeing with most of the Christian world.

Even that person in the link you posted didn't write "human spirit".

What he wrote was this....
"I call this revelation Spirit, Soul & Body. That’s not a catchy phrase, but it’s descriptive of the way the Lord revealed these truths to me. I’ve come to know I’m a spirit being who has a soul and lives in a body.

The person should have wrote.... I call this revelation Spirit Being, Soul & Body...to be consistent with him saying - I'm a spirit being who has a soul and living in a body.

Which if you go back to my earlier posts in this discussion I stated that we are spirit beings. The same as the commentator says he came to that conclusion.

From my post 44 in this thread....
"And our soul is each of us specifically as spirit beings. In other words, you and I would both be spirit beings - but your soul is uniquely you. And my soul is uniquely me. Your body is uniquely you. And my body is uniquely me."

What the commentator's error is - is that he hasn't figured out that his soul is the personalizing of him as a spirit being - that differentiates him from everyone else, who are also spirit beings. His soul is him, the spirit being, personally.

He is just body and soul. Apart from his body when it dies - he is a only a soul.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

 

[iamlamad]

The problem is not with me. The term "soul" is what is in the bible. The term "human spirit" is not in the bible.

We use terms that are not in the bible, such as "trinity."

I have never heard another person use the term "human spirit" in a discussion, regarding being born again, other than you. So I think it is you who is disagreeing with most of the Christian world.

I still think so. I did a google search on "human spirit:"
"About 7,750,000 results (0.70 seconds) "

Even that person in the link you posted didn't write "human spirit".

What he wrote was this....
"I call this revelation Spirit, Soul & Body. That’s not a catchy phrase, but it’s descriptive of the way the Lord revealed these truths to me. I’ve come to know I’m a spirit being who has a soul and lives in a body.

The person should have wrote.... I call this revelation Spirit Being, Soul & Body...to be consistent with him saying - I'm a spirit being who has a soul and living in a body.

Which if you go back to my earlier posts in this discussion I stated that we are spirit beings. The same as the commentator says he came to that conclusion.

I think you just like to disagree. If we are "human beings" - which we are - and we are "spirit beings" then it follows that we are human spirits or just plain spirits. Paul was very accurate in writing "Spirit, soul, and body" when writing of the human being.

From my post 44 in this thread....
"And our soul is each of us specifically as spirit beings. In other words, you and I would both be spirit beings - but your soul is uniquely you. And my soul is uniquely me. Your body is uniquely you. And my body is uniquely me."

I can completely agree with this.

What the commentator's error is - is that he hasn't figured out that his soul is the personalizing of him as a spirit being - that differentiates him from everyone else, who are also spirit beings. His soul is him, the spirit being, personally.

We are spirit beings that posses a soul. We are not robots.

He is just body and soul. Apart from his body when it dies - he is a only a soul.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

In this case, "soul" is used for a human being without a body. I think he is emphasizing the fact that they have been murdered. Are you saying that their spirit is not there with their soul? I would disagree. Are you saying that all the billions of believers that are now in heaven - it is only their soul that is there? If so, again I would disagree.

As a three part being, if the body dies, that leaves the Spirit with the soul. And that fits what Paul hits at, that only the power of the Word of God can divide the soul and spirit.

 

[Douggg]

In this case, "soul" is used for a human being without a body. I think he is emphasizing the fact that they have been murdered. Are you saying that their spirit is not there with their soul? I would disagree. Are you saying that all the billions of believers that are now in heaven - it is only their soul that is there? If so, again I would disagree.

The souls are them, the spirit beings, apart from their dead bodies. The soul is a person - apart from his/her body.