The Coming Fall of the Religious Right?

[Non sequitur]

I believe ANY form of government would work if we allow it. I just find pure capitalism my favorite. But such a thing working, as we now see, is sadly a pipe dream.

Unfortunately, I don't see it really working the way people would want it to :/


My favorite quotes on that are:

"Capitalism is the legitimate racket of the ruling class." - Al Capone

"The basic law of capitalism is you or I, not both you and I." - Karl Liebknecht

"What's immediately profitable is the only kind of logic that capitalism understands." - Susan George

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. - Winston Churchill

 

[Vylo]

That churchill quote pretty much sums up what most capitalistic or socialist countries end up enduring.

 

[Non sequitur]

That churchill quote pretty much sums up what most capitalistic or socialist countries end up enduring.

Pretty much.

 

[Fantine]

Their religiosity is so negative---they take the "thou shalt nots" and try to get them enshrined into civil law.

They wear on us because they give short shrift to the "shalts" that Jesus preached--loving one's neighbor as oneself, for example.

 

[MachZer0]

Their religiosity is so negative---they take the "thou shalt nots" and try to get them enshrined into civil law.

They wear on us because they give short shrift to the "shalts" that Jesus preached--loving one's neighbor as oneself, for example.

As though loving one's neighbor means coveting his income

 

[DieHappy]

Their religiosity is so negative---they take the "thou shalt nots" and try to get them enshrined into civil law.

They wear on us because they give short shrift to the "shalts" that Jesus preached--loving one's neighbor as oneself, for example.

I love my neighbor so much I don't want to see him mired down by government programs that pretend to offer him a hand up while actually standing on his throat. I love him enough to want for him the same as for me: the opportunity to work hard and work worth doing, not the endless sloth and depression that comes from sapping the public treasury.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

As though loving one's neighbor means coveting his income

Can you prove that covetousness is the motive? I understand that it is a popular platitude among conservatives as of late but it lacks bite.

In any case, with regards to the OP, I think that the coming fall of the Religious Right will be slow, but inevitable. As society matures morally it shall gracefully abandon the doctrines of that culture.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

I love my neighbor so much I don't want to see him mired down by government programs that pretend to offer him a hand up while actually standing on his throat. I love him enough to want for him the same as for me: the opportunity to work hard and work worth doing, not the endless sloth and depression that comes from sapping the public treasury.

I think most of us common pounders want the same thing but it is locating the best path that has acquired such a rough journey. There are abusers in the systems but that doesn't justify shutting the systems down. Ten years ago when my ex-wife committed adultery my life became totally unwrapped due to my choiced reactions. After leaving town I found myself with no money, no place to sleep and no job. After a couple of weeks in concrete woods I found a Vet shelter that gave the needed temporary help and as you know, now I am self employed and help provide work for others. There are many people who would rather have had that shelter shut down because it operates on tax dollars as well as donations. When I was at the shelter it was obvious a few guys just wanted the free ride but more often than not, it was just a lot of lonely and seriously depressed people. It's dam hard to find the motivation for progress in such a dark space of mind.

 

[DeathMagus]

I don't get the argument that people who support social programs are greedy. I mostly don't get it because I'm a tax-payer who isn't eligible for any of the social programs I support. What's my motive?

I like to think that I support social programs because I believe they improve the society in which I live, but I could be wrong, I suppose. Maybe I'm just vicariously lazy and greedy?

 

[MachZer0]

Can you prove that covetousness is the motive? I understand that it is a popular platitude among conservatives as of late but it lacks bite..

It can't be described any other way as far as I am concerned. Rich people have it and others want to take it away. How would you be describe it?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

It can't be described any other way as far as I am concerned. Rich people have it and others want to take it away. How would you be describe it?

See DeathMagus' post above yours. If it were about covetousness, then wouldn't those who support social programs be coveting the wealth for themselves (after all, that is what covetousness is), rather than for others?

 

[hollyda]

See DeathMagus' post above yours. If it were about covetousness, then wouldn't those who support social programs be coveting the wealth for themselves (after all, that is what covetousness is), rather than for others?

We're so greedy we want to give money away!

/logicfail

 

[Fantine]

I love my neighbor so much I don't want to see him mired down by government programs that pretend to offer him a hand up while actually standing on his throat. I love him enough to want for him the same as for me: the opportunity to work hard and work worth doing, not the endless sloth and depression that comes from sapping the public treasury.

The best predictor for a booming economy is a strong middle-class. Take China, for example, where salaries have been growing 17% a year and the middle-class is growing by leaps and bounds. Their middle class is growing so rapidly (thank the Lord) that by 2015 it will be as cheap to manufacture goods in the US again as it will be to manufacture them in China and ship them back (of course, that still doesn't protect us from job losses to Southeast Asia...)

Safety nets to help people stay in the middle class (unemployment insurance, Social Security) or move into the middle class (Pell Grants, student loans) benefit everyone, including the rich. The companies owned by the rich grow richer when they have customers who can afford their products.

A middle class with money in its pockets means much more to the wealthy than tax cuts....and that's why I don't understand why religious conservatives want policies that hurt the middle class.

As a matter of fact, I think the idea that God would approve of their economic policies is blasphemous.

 

[MachZer0]

See DeathMagus' post above yours. If it were about covetousness, then wouldn't those who support social programs be coveting the wealth for themselves (after all, that is what covetousness is), rather than for others?

In this case, they are coveting the wealth to be used on their behalf. And let's not forget that the more they can get taken from others, they less they will have to contribute themselves

 

[Archaeopteryx]

In this case, they are coveting the wealth to be used on their behalf. And let's not forget that the more they can get taken from others, they less they will have to contribute themselves

That's not the definition of covetousness. You covet something when you desire to possess something for yourself that belongs to someone else.

 

[DeathMagus]

In this case, they are coveting the wealth to be used on their behalf.

Used on my behalf? I am not eligible for any of the social programs I support. None of it is used to advance my position in society.

And let's not forget that the more they can get taken from others, they less they will have to contribute themselves

I and many in the middle-class who support social programs are fine with paying more taxes ourselves. Supporting social programs leads directly to me having less money, not more. Additionally, you must explain the motivations of people like Warren Buffet, Jon Stewart, and Barack Obama, who all think the richest of the rich (i.e. - themselves) should pay more in taxes. Clearly they're covetous, wanting for themselves and their peers to pay more tax!

 

[MachZer0]

We're so greedy we want to give money away!

/logicfail

Other people's money, to be specific

 

[DeathMagus]

Other people's money, to be specific

Actually, once money has been taxed, it no longer belongs to the person from whom it was taxed. That's the whole point.

 

[MachZer0]

That's not the definition of covetousness. You covet something when you desire to possess something for yourself that belongs to someone else.

Here's the actual definition

: to wish for earnestly <covet an award>

2: to desire (what belongs to another) inordinately or culpably

Recalling that the end result of said coveteousness is less taxes on those who covet the money of others

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

It can't be described any other way as far as I am concerned. Rich people have it and others want to take it away. How would you be describe it?

So what you're saying is the rich have taken from others, creating the poor, and since Jesus said we would always have the poor with us, you want to keep him honest by ensuring the poor will always be here. That is very noble.