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Featured The Collateral damage of the 10 Plagues of Egypt---Was it just? Was it fair?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by redleghunter, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. Yes

    12 vote(s)
    80.0%
  2. No

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  3. I don't know

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  1. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    In a previous thread we examined God's Judgment of Egypt to free His chosen Israel as it related to Pharaoh's free will.

    Now we take a look at how God freed His chosen Israel. He used the "escalation" of plagues starting with the rivers turning to blood and ended with the death of every first born in the land of Egypt during the "Passover."

    From the text of Exodus it is clear Pharaoh was the one who brought this judgment on himself, his family and his empire.

    The question is collateral damage. Everyone in Egypt suffered due to Pharaoh's hardened heart. Was it just or even fair for all those Egyptians and even Egyptian slaves to suffer and eventually lose their first born son for something they did not do. It is not like they voted for Pharaoh but they suffered the consequences of his foolish decisions.

    Why am I asking this question? I've seen some threads question such things as the atonement as it was not just or fair for Jesus to suffer for us. Before we can get into a discussion of this magnitude let's discuss a major event like the Exodus and the plagues applying the same question.

    So let's discuss.
     
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  2. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

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    Christians will agree it is fair and just, because it is more than obvious. The question (I think) should be asked is, how? Why was it just?

    But, this is your thread and your topic. I agree with it being just for God to have done this.
     
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  3. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    There is much room for your question since you answered the OP question. Please if you want proceed.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Everyone alive at that time - both the saints and the wicked - are both dead. "Is that fair"?
     
  5. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    That’s not the question. We all know we will end up worm food.

    Why did the Egyptian people have to suffer and die for the sins of Pharaoh?

    All those animals too.
     
  6. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    I suppose the same question could be asked concerning all the carnage in Revelation and the answer is still...

    Revelation 15:3 NKJV
    [3] They sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying: "Great and marvelous are Your works, Lord God Almighty! Just and true are Your ways, O King of the saints!
     
  7. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    I see it as a lousy situation, but God intervened in history according to what man gave Him to work with. Back then nations were the focus. As such God chose one nation, Israel, out of the others, and there were consequences of that election on the national level. Still, in God's economy we see underlying crosscurrents going on, as when God delayed Israel's exodus to freedom for 430 years due to the "error of the Amorites" not yet being fulfilled, so that their punishment would be deserved.

    Now with the fuller revelation of the NT, the focus primarily is on individuals, though nations still play a role, for good or otherwise. And how they play that role does bring consequences.
     
  8. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The plagues were not against Pharaoh per se. They were proof that Egyptian gods had no power over the God of Israel, and that the God of Israel held true power.

    Each plague was against each god, Pharoah being the last one.

    This action of God is just. It's showed people their gods were worthless.
     
  9. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    That’s a good point. We see God in the NT and in Revelation deal with “the nations.”

    Perhaps the people of Egypt were complicit in the suffering of Israel in bondage.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  10. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    There was one “no” vote in the poll.

    I would like to hear the view.
     
  11. PloverWing

    PloverWing Episcopalian

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    This is the part of it that made me say "I don't know", instead of "No".

    On the one hand, there were innocents caught up in the plagues -- children, animals, ordinary people just trying to live their lives and stay out of Pharaoh's way.

    But on the other hand: The Pharaoh didn't single-handedly control all those slaves. There were Egyptians overseers who gave orders and saw that the slaves followed them. There must have been many Egyptians who profited from the Hebrews' labors. Kings don't rule alone. Some of the people of Egypt, perhaps many of them, were complicit in the Hebrews' suffering.
     
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  12. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    Yes, you can be sure they were thoroughly brainwashed in the propaganda of the Pharoahs of their day just as today many drink the swill of the secular humanists.
     
  13. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Yes they were “programmed” socially from birth to give worship to the Pharaohs. I mean there was no wall keeping them in. Their presence alone could be seen in human terms as complicit.
     
  14. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Yes this. God did say the Egyptians would know He was LORD.

    Exodus 7:NASB

    4“When Pharaoh does not listen to you, then I will lay My hand on Egypt and bring out My hosts, My people the sons of Israel, from the land of Egypt by great judgments. 5“The Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I stretch out My hand on Egypt and bring out the sons of Israel from their midst.”
     
  15. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Other than those who are sealed, yes in Revelation everyone suffers the wrath of God.
     
  16. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    So a strong delusion was upon the kingdom of Egypt's subjects as well?
     
  17. Rubiks

    Rubiks armchair linguist

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    Race wasn't perceived the same as we see it today.

    If an Egyptian were to worship the Jewish God than he or she should be considered an "Israelite."

    Although, I could be wrong.
     
  18. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    With God, race is never an issue, it's all the human race.
     
  19. Rubiks

    Rubiks armchair linguist

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    It says the Israelites were safe from the plagues in the land of Goshen.
     
  20. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    And so would be any Egyptian who believed the warnings of Moses, especially at the end concerning the Passover and applying the blood on the lintel. Nothing to do with race.
    Today, same problem, as people act like the faith is a 'white privilege religion'. Nothing excludes them as Christ's blood is for all to receive simply by faith.
     
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