The Colin Patterson quote: No Intermediate Fossils

[Heissonear]

I supposed one could take it that way if one didn't understand what Gould was actually saying or why he was saying it.



One would only say such a thing if one didn't understand evolution, Punk-Eek, what transitional actually means or that humans, fish and bacteria share a common ancestor.



Did vaudevillian schtick like this play well on other forums?

Sorry, your credibility of sound replies was lost on other threads. When facts are layed right out in front of some people, the facts get trampled on, including statements that the posted facts are clearly wrong.

It degrades scientific discussion. Period. Replies become meaningless.

.

 

[Loudmouth]

If there WERE any real intermediate fossils, Steve Gould, Niles Eldredge, and Ernst Myer would not have gone to the trouble to concoct an entire new variant of evolution(ism) (Punc-eek) in an attempt to EXPLAIN that total lack, would they?

"For that matter, what better transitional form could we expect to find than the oldest human, Australopithecus afarensis, with its apelike palate, its human upright stance, and a cranial capacity larger than any ape’s of the same body size but a full 1,000 cubic centimeters below ours?"--Stephen Jay Gould, "Evolution as Fact and Theory"
Stephen Jay Gould, "Evolution as Fact and Theory" 1994

Gould has stated that A. afarensis is transitional. Yet another expert who says that there are transitionals leading to modern humans.

As to Hitler and evolution, I posted a sort of a definitive article on that one a few days ago and it got locked due to "last hero" being unable to control his emotions, but you might could turn the story up by doing a Google search on 'evolution and ethics sir arthur keith'. Keith did not share your notion of Hitler having been a Christian, to put it mildly.

Oh how low you have stooped.

 

[Loudmouth]

Sorry, your credibility of sound replies was lost on other threads. When facts are layed right out in front of some people, the facts get trampled on, including statements that the posted facts are clearly wrong.

Projection at its finest.

 

[Loudmouth]

That's worse than idiotic and I take that as a clear indication that Gould viewed all evolutionists as idiots and was simply trying to placate them. That's saying, for instance, that you could view a fish as transitional between bacteria and humans.....

Do you view eating fish as disrespectful to your ancestors??

"Here we describe the braincase, palatoquadrate and branchial skeleton of Tiktaalik roseae, the Late Devonian sarcopterygian fish most closely related to tetrapods. Although retaining a primitive configuration in many respects, the cranial endoskeleton of T. roseae shares derived features with tetrapods such as a large basal articulation and a flat, horizontally oriented entopterygoid. Other features in T. roseae, like the short, straight hyomandibula, show morphology intermediate between the condition observed in more primitive fish and that observed in tetrapods."

Nature 455, 925-929 (16 October 2008), The cranial endoskeleton of Tiktaalik roseae, Jason P. Downs, Edward B. Daeschler, Farish A. Jenkins & Neil H. Shubin

Yet more experts describing an intermediate fossil between fish and tetrapods.

 

[Loudmouth]

The Gould/Eldredge Myer version of evolution is called "Punctuated Equilibria" or 'punc-eek' for short. It amounts to an attempt to get around two overwhelming problems, i.e. the lack of intermediate fossils, and the Haldane dilemma (which says that it would take impossible spans of time to spread ANY genetic change through any sort of a large herd of animals).

I have cited multiple experts and multiple peer reviewed papers demonstrating that there are intermediates. Are you blind or something?

 

[Loudmouth]

Gungasnake,

Are you going to retract your claim that all experts say that there are no intermediate or transitional fossils?

 

[bhsmte]

I have cited multiple experts and multiple peer reviewed papers demonstrating that there are intermediates. Are you blind or something?

I think it's called; selective blindness

 

[Loudmouth]

That is called crabbing. Chunk the old after it has initiated the worldwide deception.

Introduce the "new" to perpetuate the deception.

Did I miss anything?


.

In this very thread we have creationists trying to deceive the public into thinking that all the experts say that there are no transitional fossils.

 

[lasthero]

I posted a sort of a definitive article on that one a few days ago and it got locked due to "last hero" being unable to control his emotion

No, you posted a trashy piece of tripe solely intended to flame and incite a certain group of people. You were trolling, and I marked you for it. Deal with it.

 

[bhsmte]

Gungasnake,

Are you going to retract your claim that all experts say that there are no intermediate or transitional fossils?

Ignore or spin, which will it be?

 

[Michael]

I think it's called; selective blindness

FYI, that's pretty much a universal human reaction, regardless of the topic. At some point denial becomes the only possible remaining self defense mechanism, so that's the method of last resort. I've seen that same exact pattern play out in every topic under the sun, from evolutionary theory, to plasma physics.

 

[Loudmouth]

FYI, that's pretty much a universal human reaction, regardless of the topic. At some point denial becomes the only possible remaining self defense mechanism, so that's the method of last resort. I've seen that same exact pattern play out in every topic under the sun, from evolutionary theory, to plasma physics.

Can we keep plasma out of at least one thread?

 

[Split Rock]

Of course, Dr. Patterson was asked about creationists using the out of context quote, and he had this to say..../QUOTE]

After they threatened to do WHAT to him?

Who is "they" and what "threat" are you making up to support your made up fantasy world?

 

[bhsmte]

FYI, that's pretty much a universal human reaction, regardless of the topic. At some point denial becomes the only possible remaining self defense mechanism, so that's the method of last resort. I've seen that same exact pattern play out in every topic under the sun, from evolutionary theory, to plasma physics.

I had a clock ticking in my head before I knew you would make this comment and apply it to plasma physics.

Yes, denial is utilized by 100% of the humans on earth at one point or another, no question. As with any psychological behavior, there is an amount that is considered normal (before the person realizes further denial is not productive) and there is an amount that starts to negatively impact a persons life and those close to them and that is when it gets to the "disordered" level.

Being the psychology buff that I am, observing human behaviors provide a great deal of intellectual stimulation and entertainment to me.

 

[Michael]

Can we keep plasma out of at least one thread?

You'd prefer to talk about currents and neurons perhaps?

 

[Michael]

How about photons and kinetic energy?

 

[Michael]

I had a clock ticking in my head before I knew you would make this comment and apply it to plasma physics.

Yes, denial is utilized by 100% of the humans on earth at one point or another, no question. As with any psychological behavior, there is an amount that is considered normal (before the person realizes further denial is not productive) and there is an amount that starts to negatively impact a persons life and those close to them and that is when it gets to the "disordered" level.

Being the psychology buff that I am, observing human behaviors provide a great deal of intellectual stimulation and entertainment to me.

What I find fascinating is the grandiose rationalizations that go into the process, and the hostility it triggers in some folks. The person typically has a strong desire to rationalize away the key data that either falsifies their own belief, or verifies an opposing belief. If they can't deal with the data, they often attack the messenger. It's actually amazing how often the very same human patterns play out in various topics, and it's interesting how often pure denial becomes the only possible way of 'dealing with' the 'problem'.

 

[Heissonear]

How about photons and kinetic energy?

In talking about electromagnetic waves I prefer to talk photons and cosmic rays.

 

[bhsmte]

What I find fascinating is the grandiose rationalizations that go into the process, and the hostility it triggers in some folks. The person typically has a strong desire to rationalize away the key data that either falsifies their own belief, or verifies an opposing belief. If they can't deal with the data, they often attack the messenger. It's actually amazing how often the very same human patterns play out in various topics, and it's interesting how often pure denial becomes the only possible way of 'dealing with' the 'problem'.

Yes indeed, it is a fascinating phenomena to watch cognitive dissonance in action. I am battle tested in this regard, because I have seen it up close and personal in a highly disordered manner and have seen the destruction it can do when it goes to the level of personality disorders.

We all have defense mechanisms to protect our psyche and denial is one of those core mechanisms and we all rely on it from time to time. If it goes to the level of being unhealthy (the person doesn't recognize they are fooling themselves) it turns into confirmation bias, selective reasoning, projection and a whole host of interesting behaviors. A healthy mind will eventually admit they were wrong and accept the information that goes against their belief, the unhealthy mind will hold on for dear life and even get to the point of believing their proven to be false belief to be true. That is when it really gets interesting.

 

[Michael]

Yes indeed, it is a fascinating phenomena to watch cognitive dissonance in action. I am battle tested in this regard, because I have seen it up close and personal in a highly disordered manner and have seen the destruction it can do when it goes to the level of personality disorders.

We all have defense mechanisms to protect our psyche and denial is one of those core mechanisms and we all rely on it from time to time. If it goes to the level of being unhealthy (the person doesn't recognize they are fooling themselves) it turns into confirmation bias, selective reasoning, projection and a whole host of interesting behaviors. A healthy mind will eventually admit they were wrong and accept the information that goes against their belief, the unhealthy mind will hold on for dear life and even get to the point of believing their proven to be false belief to be true. That is when it really gets interesting.

In my experience, the "mild" cases tend to manifest as confirmation bias and selective reasoning, but the more severe cases tend to involve personal attacks, aggressive behavior, and irrational claims.

Based on my experiences, I'd have to say that even relatively 'healthy minds' have a very difficult time of letting go of deep seated, long held beliefs, even when the evidence is overwhelming.