• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

The Church's Dilemma

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Araelis, Aug 9, 2010.

  1. Araelis

    Araelis Believer in the one true God

    31
    +0
    Christian
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    I just want to say this is not targeted at anyone in specific, more of everyone in a whole. I don't intend to attack anyone, I am simply addressing what I believe to be a major problem in today's Churches. Thanks.

    I have noticed in my days upon this earth, that Christianity has a certain scent to it, a scent not so pleasant to many people. I guess you could say that this is kind of the stereotype that it has been labeled with due to incidents that have gotten the attention of the media and such over the long years of it's existence. Now personally, I'm detested by what I have seen and heard that supports this outlook on our faith, and it deeply saddens me that these things have attracted the attention of the media and in turn many people everywhere. Things like anti-homosexuality marches and certain hate crimes and issues that have arisen in the past taint us with this unappealing odor. I can understand why one might have a rally to help people deal with their homosexuality in a supportive Christian manner, you know if they wish to live a life where they don't partake in things to feed their sexual urges and such, but having a march protesting against gay people's existence, or their behavior is a little ludicrous. I'd like to take the philosophy my dad has, and I want to try and stop hating in the name of God. To stop ignorance in the Church.

    People witness these things, particularly the unsaved or people who are struggling and are turned off by what they see. Because of this they develop a negative outlook on our religion. As our teachings go, at least if you believe in the bible's message, many things that are taught and said are not stressed enough. Yes we preach on the importance of being saved, on the importance of Jesus' sacrifice, but how often are we taught what it means to be a Christian, on how we are supposed to live and discipline ourselves. In my personal opinion the fact that you can be forgiven and go to heaven is known by most people. However, do you not think it is important to teach that you are making a commitment God to follow His guidance and discipline yourself in life to lessen your sin? I for one think that this is as, if not more, important as the information that you can be saved and go to heaven. I'm not sure if you are familiar with this term, but the word is carnal, and it is not a good thing. Being a carnal Christian basically means you have Him on your lips, but not in your heart. You go to church, you say your saved but then you go out the next day and live it up like you did before you were saved. To me what it means to be a Christian, is much more than just being saved. Indeed you are saved when you pray for forgiveness from God and accept Jesus, but only if you do so sincerely. Sincerity is key. That alone, though, just makes you a a saved person, you've made your commitment to God the moment you say those words sincerely. But being a Christian is much more than just being saved. Being a Christian is being someone who is saved and makes and honest effort to follow the doctrine and philosophy that God and Jesus teach in the bible. If you actually look at the bible, the message repeats itself over and over again from Genesis to Revelation.

    These lessons are key to being a Christian. The ten commandments importance did not go away with Jesus' death on the cross. No He Himself even says it is harder to go to Heaven than just being saved. Think about proverbs. How important do you think proverbs is? To me, I'd say it is one of the most important books in the bible if you want to live as God tells us to. All those lessons, Judge not lest ye be judged yourself, love one another as you love yourself, etc. Those are in proverbs. Those are like a guideline on how to live and discipline yourself. Another big thing that bothers me is the lack of understanding about what we are as Christians. We are not just saved, not just followers of God's teachings, no we are to live a close to God as we can. To be as much like Him as possible. WWJD? The significance behind this question is remarkable. One could argue that one is only human and can't be expected to be perfect, and I'm not saying you are wrong in saying that. BUT, as Christians we should ask ourselves this question every time we are tempted to sin or do wrong. Our goal as Christians is not just to go to heaven, but to better ourselves, to become more like God and to sin as least we can. To live like Him, we must do as He teaches. I ask you this, how is God? Does He hate? No. Does He sin? No. Is He unjust? No. What is God to you? As God is explained in the bible, He is a perfect, sinless, just, righteous, ever-loving being. He is all-powerful father, creator and master. He doesn't get angry, He is NEVER wrong and He is above ALL things and EVERY one. He alone is deserving of Glory, He alone is righteous.

    Think about this, what is stressed and asked every time you got to church on Sunday? Are you saved? Will you come accept Him now? Now, I'm not stupid, I know salvation is important but I've seen this time and time again, people go to become saved who some to church and they make this commitment to God, not knowing what it means. I'm all for salvation. I WANT EVERYONE TO BE SAVED. It makes me cry about how many are lost sometimes. But ask yourselves this. What does a carnal Christian bring to my church? Head count? O BOY! Nothing. What does a saved person who doesn't make an attempt at learning bring to my church? Hmmm... that's right nothing. In fact it takes away. We are told not make our brothers fall, not to be a stumbling block. If one saw one of these types of people at a church, for example a child, or a lost person. They would most likely assume that said person is a Christian. Now, the ignorance of what it means to be Christian amongst the saved in mind, think about what a lost person knows about what it means to be saved. Okay, that in mind say this observer of our "Christian" sees the person the next evening going into a strip club. What would that say to you? Or to a youth? Personally, these type of people upset me and make me sick at heart. What would this say to someone who is newly saved and trying to learn, but still doesn't know much about it? You can guess right?
    Guess what the devil is... a stumbling block!

    Now, I have seen this before, but not more than two or three times in a 15 year period. When one goes to be saved, the pastor or deacon or some such person asks said person if they truly know what it means to accept forgiveness, and what it means to be a Christian. They tell them some things that maybe said person didn't know, and then asks said person if they are sure they are ready to be saved, maybe asks them to think it over. To me, this is a wondrous idea.

    Several things are important to know when you are a Christian. You need to know what it means to be saved. You need to know who and how God is. You need to follow the teachings.

    My point is this, we need to pay more attention to what is taught and who makes up the body of our church. I hope you get what I'm saying.

    Now, I'm going to stop now, because I'm thinking to quickly, so I need to let my thoughts settle for a moment.

    Let's discuss.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. jax5434

    jax5434 Member

    630
    +239
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    I could not agree more with what you say. many people want to claim christ as their savior but will not make him lord. They want grampa santa clause instead of a holy God. Much of it is the result of watered down preaching and teaching and some outright scripture twisting lies by people who simply want money and power and care not who they mislead. a quick look around this forum will show you what the end result of these things are.

    They are the ones who cause people to blaspheme God because of their actions and speech.

    God Bless
    Jax
     
  3. gideon army

    gideon army Am the Righteousness to GOD IN Christ by Faith

    795
    +24
    Non-Denom
    Single
    I agree whoeheartely, Jesus said:-

    Matt 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

    Are you disagreeing with Scriptures that Christ came as man to fulfill what men can't via the Law & if once fulfilled & Christ cried 'It is Finished' then are you advocating that it's not complete & the believers or you specifically have to add to Christ's 'Imperfect' Finished work? :thumbsup:

    (1) What does the Law says? It is written:-

    Exd 20:5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,

    (1B) Then kindly contrast & compare with the New Covenant rectified via Christ's Eternal Blood:-

    Jer 31:29 "In those days they shall say no more: 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, And the children's teeth are set on edge.'

    Jer 31:30 "But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.

    This is effectively taking about the Curses of Deu 28 in which under Law, GOD will bless the believers & curses when the believers breaks the Law hence for 1400 years under this OLD Covenant, NO one could be bless which explains why Christ has to come to fulfilled / Magnifies GOD's Fury thru our broken laws so that His Grace could bless the believers freely.

    Ever wonderd why Jer 31:30 is there? For it's written:-

    Jer 17:5 Thus says the LORD: "Cursed is the man who trusts in man And makes flesh his strength (speking to you & all those Law advocaters via self works?), Whose heart departs from the LORD.


    Do you know why?

    Matt 19:24 "And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man (Those without knowledge or proper understanding will think it's literally RICH, however if RICH has difficulties in entering Heaven then POOR Abraham for which GOD calls a Friend/ Isaac/ Jacob/ king David for which GOD calls a man after HIS own Heart. Of not not, it's RICH inwardly thinking that one is capable to fulfill all the Requirements via the 10 Commandments & that is what Christ's referring to) to enter the kingdom of God."

    You are seriouslyErroneous in your belief & not consistant with Scriptures, The Scriptures isn't about you or me- IT's all HIM & HIM alone fm Mosses to the Prophets (Entire OT) & NT, it speaks of all His wonderful works & you are like mary (busy & concern with many things) or Hagar (under Bondage) where else Christ is raising a New Generation where they are saved via Grace & continue in Grace thus their Blood Bought Gift of Righteousness in Christ which they will REIGN in LIfe Now on Earth.

    Don't you know that the Gospel (Good News) revolution have started around the World where we cried & anchor ourselves to Christ's Finished works instead of being that Lady with an issue of Blood bowed down for 18 years ( revelation 18 comes for 666 which is essentially Anti Christ= Anti Savior) from which satan has bound her (It's a picture of the self righteousness Church of Christ so preoccupied with sins & self righteousness that stink of dirty smelly filthy soiled sanitary napkins hence weak/ sick & poor instead of focusing their Gift of Righteousness in Christ)
     
  4. GodisGreat1

    GodisGreat1 Newbie

    18
    +1
    Non-Denom
    Single
    I completely agree. A lot of people in the world today proclaim to be Christians, but do not stay away from worldly things. Now I am not saying that I am perfect, that I never sin. Also, a lot of Christians seem to forget God is judge. We as Christians shouldn't be judging others or condeming them. We can tell them that what they are doing is wrong, but we must do so in a nice and caring way, not marching and protesting.
     
  5. toolite

    toolite Well-Known Member

    +228
    Christian
    Single

    I always say if you can survive a religious person you can survive anything... (lol) I believe they prepare you most for the world.. Where the should be belief there is disbelief.. where there should be unity there is separation, where there should be love there is jealousy all in the church.. so when a worldly person who does not know of God at all does something it doesn't even matter because the one who proclaims to Know & Love God has already done it..

    All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!
     
  6. samcarternx

    samcarternx saint

    865
    +72
    Christian
    Private
    "A house divided cannot stand." This is todays church. Instead of "We have all things pertaining to life and godliness." it's a series of excuses. What happened to "one Mind, one Spirit, one Body one Lord..." A man is convicted by his sins, he hears about Savior (I call Him Savior because I speak american and Jesus is greek.) and turns to Him for forgiveness. He seeks more truth and reads the scriptures. He identifies with Savior and knows that calling Him "Lord, Lord" and not doing what He says is not enough. Now Savior didn't say "You sinners try to be nice while I'm gone now yehear?" No He said "Be ye holy as your heavenly father is holy", and "Be ye perfect as your heavenly father is perfect." The first question asked by the disciples to a group of strangers was "Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed?" This is key to the Church. The Holy Spirit is our unifier. He is that one mind, one faith, the oneness that was Savior the Anointed when He walked the earth. Now He dwells in us. If we totally agree with Him we can walk with Him. If we totally agree with Him we will submit to Him (He is greater than I) then we can do His will. We can rejoice in all things, and we will give thanks. We will also say what Savior said for its the truth and there is nothing better to say, and we will do what Savior did when He was here. We will do these things, not because we are anything, but because our God will take control of us and take us this way. When we all are this way we will do the same and say the same and anyone who doesn't will stick out like a sore thumb and we won't fellowship with him. These are those that are lead by the Spirit. This is not todays church. The true Church is spiritually together. I have a little song. If you do what Savior says
    What He says will do for you
    If you don't do what Savior says
    What He says won't do for you
    love-sam
     
  7. NatalieJan777

    NatalieJan777 Humbled before GOD

    +55
    Non-Denom
    In Relationship
    If it were finished on the cross as you claim and there is no need to follow Christ Jesus and what the Apostles say, as you claim as well then why does scripture call what you advocate a lie?

    Why did Paul consider that he had not attained it yet? If Paul thought it was truly finished on the Cross by Christ Jesus wouldn't he have said so? He didn't say so because it is not finished, what is finished is GOD's time here on earth with us, and HIS work he was sent to do by drawing all men to him was completed on the cross, thus HIM saying 'it is finished'.

    Philippians 3:10-12 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.

    Why would Jesus teach us to follow HIM and then not tell us that we need do nothing?

    Mark 13:22-23 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible. So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.

    Everything HE told the apostles is written in the New Testament. I challange you to show me where Christ Jesus says that we need do nothing to be accepted by HIM. I want it to say 'nothing' as you claim this is what HE requires. Show me where he says that we are to follow him only until he dies on the cross and ascends into heaven and after that we are to do nothing, I am really interested to find this text.

    If you cannot find this text this means that you have in fact called CHRIST JESUS a liar because HE CLAIMS that he has told everything in advance. ANTI-CHRIST are not, I repeat are not those who do the will of the FATHER.

    --------------------------

    Sorry OP to bring this here, but I am bound to GOD to speak when I hear untruths spoken of HIM. I read the majority of your post. Bombing Abortion Clinics and taking innocent lives will not be exonerated by GOD. We are to speak up for GOD, but it is to be done on a one on one, face to face level. Jesus says if someone sins against us we are to bring it derectly to their attention (face to face confrontation) if the person does not listen we are to bring 2-3 witnesses with us and again confront face to face. If the person still does not listen we are to take it to the elders of the church.

    The bible says to not go against someone if they have personally done you no wrong. We stand up for others rights many times by getting involved in these fights for GOD and in doing so we give a bad name to HIM. For bombing and taking lives of innocent people are not HIS WILL.
     
  8. Meet me at the cross

    Meet me at the cross Newbie

    55
    +2
    Non-Denom
    Married
    This does not taint the true Christian faith.
     
  9. Meet me at the cross

    Meet me at the cross Newbie

    55
    +2
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Do you believe that we won't sin if we are in Christ?
     
  10. GodisGreat1

    GodisGreat1 Newbie

    18
    +1
    Non-Denom
    Single

    I believe that everyone on earth sins, however you should strive to stay away from all worldly things. There has never been one perfect except our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The ones that bother me are the ones who constantly commit the same sin and refuse to change. If you commit a sin you must repent of it. The word repent means you must have a change in heart. I believe if someone does in the same sinful thing over and over then they did not have a change in heart.
     
  11. gideon army

    gideon army Am the Righteousness to GOD IN Christ by Faith

    795
    +24
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Humm, interesting supposition, however if you've read Hebrews 11 then you'll note all the Great name of 'Faiths' in GOD's own estimation. However there's this inconvenient Truth that Abraham kept sinning yet you've never find GOD rebuking abraham but yet calls abraham a Friend ;) That's not even touching on Isaac/ Jacob.

    How about Peter whom denied knowing Jesus with Cursing & swearing? Did Jesus rebuke peter? Then if you contrast peter's action with the 10 Commandments, have not peter transgressed 1st 2 commandments which is THE Most important of the commandments which is the Jews Shama?

    The Church has been weak/ sick & poor because it's smack of dirty/ smelly Soiled Sanitary Napkins (Isa 64:6) self righteousness via self works when it should be like the women whom satan has her bowed down for 18 years (666 anti christ via self righteousness) beholding Jesus & stand straight / Tall to Reign in LIfe here on earth.
     
  12. GodisGreat1

    GodisGreat1 Newbie

    18
    +1
    Non-Denom
    Single

    Abraham lived before Christ died for the sins of man. Before Jesus was crucfied, man found favor with God by beliving and offering blood sacrifices.
     
  13. gideon army

    gideon army Am the Righteousness to GOD IN Christ by Faith

    795
    +24
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Scripturally Wrong answer Buddy :),

    Sin was never accounted to men by GOD before the giving of Law on Mount Sinai even when the Children of Israel murmured & complain against GOD (via Moses for GOD takes any complain against HIS Choice of Leadership as complaining against HIM).

    It is with the Law & it's via the Law that men presupposes their ability to stand perfect & godly to GOD when all men self righteousness stank wose then soiled sanitary napkins (Isa 64:6)

    Therefore do not assume 'bad christians' (In deeds/ clothings/words) are effectively bad for GOD said that He'll justify the ungodly plus their righteousness comes from HIM :amen:

    If you check it up my above statement, it's scriptural plus there's a slight INCONVENIENT Truth, it states clearly that these ppl (bad to worldly eyes) christians Righteousness comes from GOD & not their own :amen:
     
  14. GodisGreat1

    GodisGreat1 Newbie

    18
    +1
    Non-Denom
    Single


    I agree righteousness comes from God.
    Perhaps I should have been more clear in what I was trying to say. The ones that bother me are the one who have a "holier than thou" attitude, yet constantly perform sinful acts. Also the ones who think Jesus died so that they can sin all they want with no consequences. However, I am in no way judging them.
     
Loading...