The Christian response to common abortion responses

sccs

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Hi there, I am learning about abortion and I'd like to hear what are your (Christian) responses to the following questions posed by pro-choice people. I am looking for answers from a pro-life Christian perspective. In other words, how would a pro-lifer Christian adequately respond to these questions including (but not limited to) use of Scripture and theology.

1. What about allowing abortions in the case of rape or incest?
2. What about a woman's right to her own body? It is her life and her choice.
3. What about allowing abortions in the case where the life or health of the mother is at risk?
4. What if the unborn child has a disease or illness that would guarantee him or her a life of suffering after birth?
5. Can a Christian be anti-abortion personally but allow for a pro-choice legislation in the United States? To what extent should Christians legislate morality?
 
D
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1.) A Christian shouldn't abort a baby in the case of rape or incest.
2.) The Baby has a body also, what about the right of that baby to its body?
3.) I'm guessing the whole Tribe of Benjamin couldn't exist in that case.
Gen 35:16-18

4. Doesn't matter if someone has a disease or suffering after their birth. We don't know what the future holds.
5.A Christian should live their lives trying to emulate Christ.
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RushMAN

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1. What about allowing abortions in the case of rape or incest?

No

2. What about a woman's right to her own body? It is her life and her choice.

No it's not. The baby has a right to live and it is not your choice

3. What about allowing abortions in the case where the life or health of the mother is at risk?

No

4. What if the unborn child has a disease or illness that would guarantee him or her a life of suffering after birth?

No, it is not up to you

5. Can a Christian be anti-abortion personally but allow for a pro-choice legislation in the United States? To what extent should Christians legislate morality?

No
 
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SPF

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1. What about allowing abortions in the case of rape or incest?
The “how” in which a new human comes into existence has no bearing upon their moral worth and value, and therefore plays no role in whether it is moral or immoral to kill them.
2. What about a woman's right to her own body? It is her life and her choice.
From a Christian perspective none of us have any “rights” over our own bodies. We were bought with a price and are called to honor God with our bodies.

Or one could ask why a woman’s right to either liberty or pursuit of happiness should trump the right to life of the unborn child.

3. What about allowing abortions in the case where the life or health of the mother is at risk?
In those instances, we should charge the doctor with viewing both the mother and child as his patients.

The goal should be to preserve both his patients lives, but we recognize that we live in an imperfect world and at times he may only be able to save one.

4. What if the unborn child has a disease or illness that would guarantee him or her a life of suffering after birth?
That’s between them and God, it’s not my place to declare they would be better off dead.

5. Can a Christian be anti-abortion personally but allow for a pro-choice legislation in the United States? To what extent should Christians legislate morality?
Sure. I don’t think we should legislate morality, but I do think abortion should be illegal.

Our laws are designed to protect the innocent. For example, drinking alcohol is legal, however we have laws to protect people. Drinking age protects our youth. Driving thresholds protect the drinker and other drivers.

Abortion should be illegal because it would protect our nation’s most innocent and vulnerable youth.
 
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St_Worm2

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1. What about allowing abortions in the case of rape or incest?
2. What about a woman's right to her own body? It is her life and her choice.
3. What about allowing abortions in the case where the life or health of the mother is at risk?
4. What if the unborn child has a disease or illness that would guarantee him or her a life of suffering after birth?
5. Can a Christian be anti-abortion personally but allow for a pro-choice legislation in the United States? To what extent should Christians legislate morality?
Hello Sccs, here are my quick replies to these questions (as quick as I can make them anyway ;)).

1. Rape, incest and danger to the mother's health and life ~combined~ account for less than 1% of the abortions that are performed each year. That said, rape and incest are horrible crimes, but so is murder, particularly the killing of an innocent baby (the unborn child is not the guilty party).

2. A baby is cradled / carried in the womb of it's mother, to grow and be nurtured until birth. Each baby is a wholly separate person from it's mother: With different DNA, different fingerprints, with possibly a different blood type or the opposite sex. The baby is a person living within a person ......... NOT "the mother's body".

3. This is a toughest question, I think. I wish it was one that both sides were willing to sit down and discuss, but the Pro-Abortion/Pro-Choice side will not, because they use the 1% of abortions (abortions that involve rape, incest, and risk to the mother's health/life) as a means of justifying the 99% of abortions (which are done for the sake of convenience).

4. Physicians do the best they can, but they certainly cannot "guarantee" a life of suffering after birth. They have, in fact, been proven wrong many times due to moms who decided to give birth anyway, as well to botched abortions where the baby (who was being aborted because of this type of information from the doctor) lived.

I've met many parents with a special needs children who have found their special needs child to be a GREAT blessing :), not a burden. God has a plan for each and every human life, a plan that He does not want us to cut short by killing our unborn children (even if a doctor tells us that we may not end up having a "perfect" child).

5. We Christians are called to protect and defend the innocent .. e.g. Psalms 82:3-4; Isaiah 1:7. A Christian can choose to disobey these commandments, of course (MANY Christians looked the other way in WWII Germany :(), but we sin when we have the opportunity to protect and defend the innocent, but choose to do nothing instead. To answer your question as directly as possible, I do not believe that a Christian should claim to be against abortion on the one hand (personally), while giving tacit approval to its ongoing practice (by others) on the other hand.

One last aside, if we do not legislate morality, what (exactly) are we legislating?
--David
p.s. - I noticed that none of your questions were about adoption! Since we have crossed over 1.5 BILLION reported abortions (worldwide/since 1980 .. http://www.numberofabortions.com/), perhaps adoption is an option that most of our moms with unwanted pregnancies should begin taking a serious look at again :oldthumbsup::oldthumbsup:

A mom is appointed to care for the separate life that she carries within her, and once it's born, find a home for her baby, if she can't provide one. - Melody Green

Psalms 82
3 Vindicate the weak and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and destitute.
4 Rescue the weak and needy;
Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.


Isaiah 1
17 Learn to do good;
Seek justice,
Reprove the ruthless,
Defend the orphan,
Plead for the widow.
.
 
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St_Worm2

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Hello again @sccs, one last thing, when we adopted our infant son (about 22 years ago), we were told not to get our hopes up too high (by our adoption agency) when we started the process. The reason? Back then there were 100 "qualified" adoptive families for each baby that was put up for adoption.

It's a larger ratio now as many more single parents and LGBTQ+ parents are out there looking to adopt.

There are NO unwanted babies :)

--David

ryan-mfl-2018-adoptedandlovedfromrape.jpg
 
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Jok

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1. Rape, incest and danger to the mother's health and life ~combined~ account for less than 1% of the abortions that are performed each year.
Yet in my experience used in argument 100% of the time by pro-choice advocates. I don’t pretend to represent an official statistic, but for me it’s 100%, I’ve never not heard it used, not once.
 
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coffee4u

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Hi there, I am learning about abortion and I'd like to hear what are your (Christian) responses to the following questions posed by pro-choice people. I am looking for answers from a pro-life Christian perspective. In other words, how would a pro-lifer Christian adequately respond to these questions including (but not limited to) use of Scripture and theology.

1. What about allowing abortions in the case of rape or incest?
Two wrongs do not make a right.

Also something else to consider is who says that by aborting that child this woman's issues will somehow magically get better? Who decided that abortion will somehow make her at peace? Does it makes the horror done to her go away? What about the health risks of abortion to both her physically and mentally?

2. What about a woman's right to her own body? It is her life and her choice.

What about the babies right to its own body and life? He or she did not ask to be conceived.
890,000 abortions took place in the United States in 2016
There was a total of 95,730 estimated rapes. (rapes not pregnancy from rape)
Senatorial nominee from Missouri Todd Akin made televised remarks yesterday that included the assertion: ...from what I understand from doctors [pregnancy after rape] is really rare. If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try and shut that whole thing down.

The pro life movement love to bring up rape, incest, mothers life like they are the major reasons for abortion. Those things are rare. We all know the vast majority of unplanned pregnancies come from one thing, casual careless sex. If they care so much about their body maybe they should think twice and take responsibility.

3. What about allowing abortions in the case where the life or health of the mother is at risk?
This is so rare as to be worthy of a news story. A baby can be delivered and live as young as 24 weeks gestation. Common Abortion Exceptions - The Mother's Life - American Life League
Even a diagnosis of cancer does not automatically mean you must have an abortion Cancer During Pregnancy
If you are on death's door you will continue to be so, pregnant or not. And if you are not at death's door you can be treated and have the baby early.
Again, those 8 million dead babies were not killed for this reason.


4. What if the unborn child has a disease or illness that would guarantee him or her a life of suffering after birth?

In that case you are playing God, because nobody knows exactly how a child will suffer or even if it will suffer at all after birth. Doctors have made claims about a child not walking or talking and they have done both.
My nephew in law has both severe autism and Down Syndrome, he can't walk or talk. His mother was told he was fine at 20 weeks. She was close to 9 months before they even hinted at an issue, would you have crushed his skull at birth? Likewise, there have also been families told a child had X and turned out to be false. Wouldn't that be nice to abort an 'unhealthy' baby only to find out it was perfectly normal? What kind of guilt would that bring down the rest of their life?
If a child is going to die after birth then they can do so held by family, not aborted-which causes great suffering to the fetus. We don't even know when a fetus starts to feel pain, but certainly premature infants do. A fetus at 20 weeks will pull away from a pinprick, who are we to say it can't feel pain?

As to the whole, "It's kinder to abort" (which actually means rip its arms and legs off and crush its skull- mmm not so pretty when what it really done is described is it?)
I know first hand, my first child died from a birth defect after birth and I was offered a termination at 20 weeks. So yes I am passionate about this issue because I have been there and it's not something that I would wish on anybody, but most people blowing smoke over this never have, so they can pack their bags and take a hike. Birth and death are a circle, and by completing it naturally you bring yourself far more closure than taking unnatural steps to break it prematurely. I would encourage any woman with a bad diagnosis to carry to term or as long as possible and to give their baby a funeral.

5. Can a Christian be anti-abortion personally but allow for a pro-choice legislation in the United States? To what extent should Christians legislate morality?

I am not American. Abortion should be illegal.
 
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St_Worm2

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Yet in my experience used in argument 100% of the time by pro-choice advocates. I don’t pretend to represent an official statistic, but for me it’s 100%, I’ve never not heard it used, not once.
Hello Jok, I'm having trouble understanding what you are saying, so please elaborate a bit more for me (if you don't mind doing so, that is). For instance, what is 100% for you .. that you've also never heard used, not even once? Also, what argument is used by pro-choice advocates 100% of the time?

Thanks again :)

--David
 
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Jok

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Hello Jok, I'm having trouble understanding what you are saying, so please elaborate a bit more for me (if you don't mind doing so, that is). For instance, what is 100% for you .. that you've also never heard used, not even once? Also, what argument is used by pro-choice advocates 100% of the time?

Thanks again :)

--David
It’s not your fault, it’s my incoherent ramblings, I don’t keep a journal or diary so I just make people in CF suffer by putting up with my rants instead lol. I just meant that it seems weird that in my experience 100% of the time someone has given me a pro-choice argument they use #1 from the OP as a reason, yet #1 makes up less than 1% of abortion cases.
 
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St_Worm2

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Thanks brother, and I agree, it's basically been the same for me too.

The only other (semi-regular) argument that I hear from the Pro-Choice side is that an unborn child is not a human being with a life of its own yet, that it's simply a blob of cells that is still part of its mother's body (but science tells us the very opposite, of course).

God bless you!

--David
 
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JimR-OCDS

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1. What about allowing abortions in the case of rape or incest?

Ethically, it would still be wrong to abort in the case of rape or incest.
However, not all women have the emotional capacity to carry through with a pregnancy as
a result of rape or incest. I think that it's an individual case and the woman needs pastoral and medical guidence


.2. What about a woman's right to her own body? It is her life and her choice

It's not her body that is being destroyed, but that of the unborn. Also, it's not her choice alone.
She doesn't have an abortion by merely willing it, but must have others to perform and assist in the abortion, along with society's moral and logistical support.


3. What about allowing abortions in the case where the life or health of the mother is at risk?

It's important to understand the distinction from an indirect abortion and a direct abortion.
A direct abortion is where the performing physician must directly kill the fetus. This is illicit.

An indirect abortion is where other things are done to save the mother's life, but may cause the death of the fetus. This is licit and in the majority of these cases, the mother isn't looking to end the pregnancy, but save it. The doctor is usually trying to save both mother and child.


4. What if the unborn child has a disease or illness that would guarantee him or her a life of suffering after birth?

Never licit as the quality of life for the child can not be determined by others. In Holland, there are few children with downs syndrome as mothers aborted them after being told that the baby was going to be born with it. Anyone who has know a person with downs syndrome can tell you they are the most loving people to be around.
FYI, my son was born at 27 weeks and has cerebral palsy. He's 39 years old today and doing well.



5. Can a Christian be anti-abortion personally but allow for a pro-choice legislation in the United States? To what extent should Christians legislate morality?

No. This is often the logic used by many like Nancy Pelosi.

The problem is, being pro-choice still provides the moral and legal support through legislation and will always come to the individual who'll have to make a choice between supporting abortion or opposing it.

We're all connected and no person is an island of themselves. The decisions we make effect all of society in some way.
 
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Jermayn

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Hi there, I am learning about abortion and I'd like to hear what are your (Christian) responses to the following questions posed by pro-choice people. I am looking for answers from a pro-life Christian perspective. In other words, how would a pro-lifer Christian adequately respond to these questions including (but not limited to) use of Scripture and theology.

1. What about allowing abortions in the case of rape or incest?
2. What about a woman's right to her own body? It is her life and her choice.
3. What about allowing abortions in the case where the life or health of the mother is at risk?
4. What if the unborn child has a disease or illness that would guarantee him or her a life of suffering after birth?
5. Can a Christian be anti-abortion personally but allow for a pro-choice legislation in the United States? To what extent should Christians legislate morality?

1. What about allowing abortions in the case of rape or incest?
No. It's a human life. It's a bad situation, but it doesn't mean the child is worthless in God's eyes and the actions of it's father shouldn't carry a death sentence for an innocent child. There's more than enough people willing to adopt.

2. What about a woman's right to her own body? It is her life and her choice.
The child has its own DNA. It may be in your body, but it's not your body. If you don't want a child in your life, make the choice not to have sex before marriage.

3. What about allowing abortions in the case where the life or health of the mother is at risk?
This is the one situation I could see it being allowed, because it actually does have to do with the mothers life and body.

4. What if the unborn child has a disease or illness that would guarantee him or her a life of suffering after birth?
No. It's a human life. It's a bad situation, but it doesn't mean the child is worthless in God's eyes.

5. Can a Christian be anti-abortion personally but allow for a pro-choice legislation in the United States? To what extent should Christians legislate morality?
If you live in a country where you are allowed to vote, I'm not sure why you would be against something, but vote to allow it to happen. You should legislate morality to the extent that your government allows you too. In America, the constitution gives citizens the right to vote for anyone, for any reason. There's no "you can't vote for moral reasons" caveat.
 
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Yoko.52

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No



No it's not. The baby has a right to live and it is not your choice



No



No, it is not up to you



No

I have to comment here just because of one of the No's you made. So let me see if I get this straight if the continued pregnancy would cause the death of the child the mother or both you think she should carry it anyways. All I have to say is thank you God in heaven none of the women in my family or any women for that matter will ever have to answer to you when it pertains to their life or medical care.
 
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coffee4u

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I have to comment here just because of one of the No's you made. So let me see if I get this straight if the continued pregnancy would cause the death of the child the mother or both you think she should carry it anyways. All I have to say is thank you God in heaven none of the women in my family or any women for that matter will ever have to answer to you when it pertains to their life or medical care.

Again with the make believe 'life of the mother'.

30,000 Doctors say abortion is never medically necessary to save a mother's life
US: 30,000 Doctors say abortion is never medically necessary to save a mother's life - News
It's not a thing, it's made up hyperbowl to tug on the heartstrings.
 
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Yoko.52

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Again with the make believe 'life of the mother'.

o save a mother's li30,000 Doctors say abortion is never medically necessary tfe
US: 30,000 Doctors say abortion is never medically necessary to save a mother's life - News
It's not a thing, it's made up hyperbowl to tug on the heartstrings.

Know its not. I know several cases of woman who could not carry to term or they would die, oh and about your so called 30k doctors
'
The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists issued a statement saying: "Abortions are necessary in a number of circumstances to save the life of a woman or to preserve her health. Unfortunately, pregnancy is not a risk-free life event. Conditions that might lead to ending a pregnancy to save a woman's life include severe infections, heart failure and severe cases of preeclampsia, a condition in which a woman develops very high blood pressure and is at risk for stroke. My ex fell into that category, she could not carry to term without it killing her. We tried once before she made it to 4 months she started to stroke out, bleed and finally miscarry. We were very careful after that, both of us wanted kids. Sadly I was negligent on birth control and she got pregnant again. And I know of a dozen cases were it was necessary, so when you post that article it kind makes me sick, mainly because it is a biased bogus claim.

And before someone reports my post and says I support abortion...know I do not. But when someone post a bogus biased post call you out on it.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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I have to comment here just because of one of the No's you made. So let me see if I get this straight if the continued pregnancy would cause the death of the child the mother or both you think she should carry it anyways. All I have to say is thank you God in heaven none of the women in my family or any women for that matter will ever have to answer to you when it pertains to their life or medical care.

The Catholic Church teaches that a "direct abortion," is illicit. This means the doctor would deliberately kill the fetus before it was removed.

However, an "indirect abortion," is licit. This would happen when the doctor induces labor and the fetus dies in the delivery. In other words, the doctor didn't have to kill the fetus first.


So when we're talking about the scenario you're presenting, there is a moral and licit way for the doctor to save the life of the mother without directly killing the fetus.
 
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Yoko.52

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The Catholic Church teaches that a "direct abortion," is illicit. This means the doctor would deliberately kill the fetus before it was removed.

However, an "indirect abortion," is licit. This would happen when the doctor induces labor and the fetus dies in the delivery. In other words, the doctor didn't have to kill the fetus first.


So when we're talking about the scenario you're presenting, there is a moral and licit way for the doctor to save the life of the mother without directly killing the fetus.
Not always, the second time I got my girlfriend pregnant she was about 2 months along and they told her she could not carry the term and it could kill her. She finally had herself I'm not even sure what the proper word is had her tubes tied I think. Some women cannot carry to term. That is a sad truth. The only problem I have with pro-lifers is they will tell lies about abortion and they are willing to let a woman die. My girlfriend and me broke up shortly after that. And again I do not support abortion as some type of convenience but there are very real medical reasons for one. I read the story of a woman who she had a blood disorder that could kill her if she carried to term. She had family who were willing to take care of the child if she passed away and she did but that was her choice. You cannot tell someone that they need to do something that will kill them it has to be their choice. I was looking up other stories in one a lady had a abortion when she found out that there were complications that would leave her unborn child brain dead. If you don't know brain dead is when the bodies working but there is no consciousness the mind's not there. And again I am not supporting abortion but I am saying there are medical reasons for one and I consider it incredibly irresponsible for any Christian to try and say otherwise. As one doctor said you should try to save the woman and the unborn child but if worse comes to worse it needs to be the mother's decision on that if she's able to make it. You can Google it I found dozens and dozens of stories. again I don't want to get banned for promoting abortion cuz I'm not and I don't believe in abortion as a rule.
 
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