The choice of Cain

[Sultan Of Swing]

Genesis 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

I have a question regarding unconditional election and Cain, here in Genesis 4.

While Cain is getting angry, God speaks to Him and says "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?"

God is telling Cain that if he does good, he will be accepted by God.

But if God has already chosen Abel to be one of His elect, and Cain is a "vessel of wrath", why tell him this? Isn't it just false hope? "Cain, if you do good I will accept you, and if you do bad sin will lie at your door... though ultimately I haven't actually chosen you to be one of my elect so there's nothing you can really do." God seems to be telling Cain he has a choice, but yet, Cain doesn't really have a choice as he has not been chosen like Abel has been.

Any ideas, guys? How do we relate what God is saying here to Cain? Did Cain have a real choice, why would God tell this to a person who is not elect and has no chance of doing good?

 

[Inkfingers]

Did Cain have a real choice

He had a choice (evens happen through orderly flows of information) but not a free one. His choice was dictated by his nature, which was dictated by God.

why would God tell this to a person who is not elect and has no chance of doing good?

For the same reason that God would have Cain not do good in the first place - for the greater glory of God and the unfolding of his plan.

 

[Don Maurer]

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?

While Cain is getting angry, God speaks to Him and says "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?"

God is telling Cain that if he does good, he will be accepted by God.

stickyfingers spoke well, but I am going to add something. God does speak conditionally here. Cain will be accepted if he "does well." Of course that is still true for the reprobate today. It has always been true. Even under the Law, if the Law were obeyed, Israel would do well. If you look in the NT, at the parable of the Good Samaratin, if one keeps the law, Christ said "do this and you will live."

stickyfingers mentioned that this issue that Cain's fallen nature meant that he would not want to "do well." That is true and it does not take away from the truth of what God said Can would be accepted if he "does well."

But if God has already chosen Abel to be one of His elect, and Cain is a "vessel of wrath", why tell him this? Isn't it just false hope? "Cain, if you do good I will accept you, and if you do bad sin will lie at your door... though ultimately I haven't actually chosen you to be one of my elect so there's nothing you can really do." God seems to be telling Cain he has a choice, but yet, Cain doesn't really have a choice as he has not been chosen like Abel has been.

Any ideas, guys? How do we relate what God is saying here to Cain? Did Cain have a real choice, why would God tell this to a person who is not elect and has no chance of doing good?

Why would God say that to Cain, who is not elect? Because it is true. Cain never really had hope from the perspective of God, but the statement is still true.

 

[Inkfingers]

stickyfingers spoke well,

Oi! If I was the Pope I'd punch you for that

 

[Don Maurer]

Oi! If I was the Pope I'd punch you for that

LOL, ak, I mean inkfingers!!!

 

[sdowney717]

God also shows a little mercy to Cain putting on Cain a mark as a warning to any who would kill Cain that God would exact a seven fold vengeance against the killer.

Wrath and judgement is certain against those who do evil, but it can be delayed for a season.

 

[twin1954]

Genesis 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

I have a question regarding unconditional election and Cain, here in Genesis 4.

While Cain is getting angry, God speaks to Him and says "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?"

God is telling Cain that if he does good, he will be accepted by God.

But if God has already chosen Abel to be one of His elect, and Cain is a "vessel of wrath", why tell him this? Isn't it just false hope? "Cain, if you do good I will accept you, and if you do bad sin will lie at your door... though ultimately I haven't actually chosen you to be one of my elect so there's nothing you can really do." God seems to be telling Cain he has a choice, but yet, Cain doesn't really have a choice as he has not been chosen like Abel has been.

Any ideas, guys? How do we relate what God is saying here to Cain? Did Cain have a real choice, why would God tell this to a person who is not elect and has no chance of doing good?

First of all you need to understand that election is unto salvation but it isn't salvation. We are not saved because we are elect we are saved because God loved us and gave His Son for us. To properly understand election you must understand that it is electing love not just a picking out of people. God is not obligated to save any but He chose the weak, the worthless and the underserving and set His heart on them in electing love. The elect are just as much sinners as the un-elect. In fact they are probably worse sinners. The elect have nothing to recommend them to God and no hope in their goodness. They have no righteousness and no goodness that they can bring before God. They are shut up to sovereign mercy. Either He will have mercy on them for Christ's sake or they will be judged and damned. Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable gift.

Secondly you need to understand that Cain did exactly as he desired to do. Cain, though taught the same as Able in the way the sacrifice was to be brought, believed that God had to accept whatever he brought. Cain brought the fruit of his labor and that is a picture of works salvation.

The whole point of the account is to show us that God will be worshipped only through the sacrifice of His Son by His shed blood. God is the one who shed the first blood as a picture of the One who would come and shed His blood as a sacrifice for sin. He then clothed Adam and Eve with the skin of that animal, probably a lamb, as a type and picture of Him robing us in the righteousness of Christ. Gen 3:21

When God told Cain that if he did well he would be accepted He was telling him and us that we must come with the only sacrifice that God will accept, the blood of His precious Son.

Cain did not because he would not. He would not have God's way, God's worship and God's Son. He was the same as those of whom the Lord said, "you will not come to me that you might have life." John 5:40

Though man is unable to come unless God does something in him and for him it isn't a matter of ability but one of rebellion, they will not come.


One more thought concerning election:
Election never keeps out anyone who want in it ensures that there will be some who do.

 

[twin1954]

Oi! If I was the Pope I'd punch you for that

You do realize that you now have a new knickname on here don't you? You are now officially dubbed stickyfingers.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Genesis 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

I have a question regarding unconditional election and Cain, here in Genesis 4.

While Cain is getting angry, God speaks to Him and says "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?"

God is telling Cain that if he does good, he will be accepted by God.

But if God has already chosen Abel to be one of His elect, and Cain is a "vessel of wrath", why tell him this? Isn't it just false hope? "Cain, if you do good I will accept you, and if you do bad sin will lie at your door... though ultimately I haven't actually chosen you to be one of my elect so there's nothing you can really do." God seems to be telling Cain he has a choice, but yet, Cain doesn't really have a choice as he has not been chosen like Abel has been.

Any ideas, guys? How do we relate what God is saying here to Cain? Did Cain have a real choice, why would God tell this to a person who is not elect and has no chance of doing good?

This is a very good question, and it deserves careful contemplation because God does speak to Cain as if he has a real choice.

You have some good answers already; I especially like Twin1954s, but I'll try to give an answer as well, which likely will repeat some of what he said.

The entire OT is an exhaustive lesson for the universe to see that man cannot save himself; he must be rescued. He must not come standing on his own two feet directly to God, as Cain did. He must come through mediation. He must come covered in blood. The sin "crouching" at Cain's door was not drunkenness, fornication or gluttony, it was self-righteousness/works righteousness.

What's fascinating about the story of Cain and Able is that it's not a lesson about religion vs irreligion. It's not Christianity vs atheism. It's not belief vs unbelief. They both believed. The story demonstrates that there are only two religions, and that everyone is practicing one or the other. There are no irreligious people. There are two types of people, those who accept God's righteousness, and those who bring their own.

I'm afraid that this doesn't exactly answer the OP as to why God spoke to Cain as if he had a real choice, but I'm dwelling on it.

 

[Inkfingers]

You do realize that you now have a new knickname on here don't you? You are now officially dubbed stickyfingers.

The only stick you need worry about is the one I will beat you with

 

[Renee Arisen]

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[BryanW92]

Abel obeyed God, and honored Him and was blessed with the godly line.

What godly line?

 

[iambren]

I believe Shem (another son of Adam) became the godly line.

 

[Renee Arisen]

x

 

[twin1954]

I believe Shem (another son of Adam) became the godly line.

I believe you mean Seth. Shem was a son of Noah.

 

[twin1954]

God cannot (will not) twist our arm. We have a free will to obey or disobey Him. It is a test.

I have a real problem with this statement. God's purpose and providence is not a test. God is a God of purpose and He works all things after the council of His own will. Tests would imply that God learns which means He changes which we know is impossible.

God twists arms all throughout the Scriptures. He hardened Pharaoh's heart and made Jonah go preach to Nineveh. Read Prov. 16.

 

[Renee Arisen]

x

 

[twin1954]

Hi Twin

Granted, God uses circumstances to influence us, to correct us, to instruct us.

My point was more that God will not bend our will to make us love Him.

Blessings!
Renee

What would you call giving us a new nature? If it isn't bending our will then what is it?


The Lord does something in us and for us and that is called salvation.

Moreover, what difference does it make how we come to love Him? Is not love love? Does not Psa. 110:3 say that His people shall be willing in the day of His power?

In Hosea 2:14 He says that He will allure us, how does He do that? He brings us into the wilderness and speaks comfortably to us. He causes us to love Him by showing His great love to us in His Son. He opens our eyes to see His beauty and causes us to bow before Him in submission. He makes us to need Him as the leper did when he came and fell at His feet worshipping Him saying Lord if you will you can make me clean.

He first conquers our rebellious heart and then comforts us by His wondrous grace. We love Him because He first loved us.


Not trying to argue with you but trying to make you see the whole picture.

 

[iambren]

Yes, the name I meant was SETH. Wow,we're tripping up on this name aren't we. On the other hand, Shem was the son of Noah that carried on the righteous line also.

 

[Renee Arisen]

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