The Chastening Of The Lord

[dkbwarrior]

THE CHASTENING OF THE LORD

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect,
thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
-2 Timothy 3:16-17

INSTRUCTION:

paideia
(feminine noun)
Strongs G3809

& the verb form of the same word-

paideuō
(verb)
Strongs G3811

Places this word is found in the New Testament:

5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children,
My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord,
nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth,
and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons;
for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers,
then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us,
and we gave them reverence:
shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure;
but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous:
nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness
unto them which are exercised thereby.
Hebrews 12:5-11

22And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians,
and was mighty in words and in deeds.
-Acts 7:22

3I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
-Acts 22:3

24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
-2 Timothy 2:24-26

11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
-Titus 2:11-12

It seems pretty plain to me that the chastening of the Lord is the instruction or reproof of the Word of God. It certainly isn't anywhere referenced as sickness or other evil in the New Testament that I am aware of.

Peace....

 

[Tobias]

1 Cor 11:27 So anyone who eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord unworthily is guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 That is why you should examine yourself before eating the bread and drinking the cup. 29 For if you eat the bread or drink the cup without honoring the body of Christ, you are eating and drinking God’s judgment upon yourself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and sick and some have even died


This is a passage directed at saints, right? Not at a bunch of people who were posing as Christians and going to church and taking communion because it was the thing to do.


Then there's the passage Faulty mentioned earlier:


Rev 2:20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality. 22 Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.


Is this simply a threat of God's wrath, or can we consider any of it as correction? The people who followed Jezebel He calls "My bond-servants", so it definitely applies to saints.

I imagine more will come to mind later...

 

[Tobias]

Heb 12:6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth,
and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.


You've come up with one definition for "chasteneth" that simply means "instruction" (though Strong's says it's in a disciplinary manner); what are your thoughts on the word "scourgeth"??


FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES,
AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES.” nasb

because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son. niv

For the Lord corrects and disciplines everyone whom He loves, and He punishes, even scourges, every son whom He accepts and welcomes to His heart and cherishes. amp

 

[JimB]

*****

It seems pretty plain to me that the chastening of the Lord is the instruction or reproof of the Word of God. It certainly isn't anywhere referenced as sickness or other evil in the New Testament that I am aware of.

Peace....

So, how does the Lord "chasten" believers who do not have access to "the Word," who are illerate, isolated, or mentally unable to read?

~Jim


.

 

[dkbwarrior]

So, how does the Lord "chasten" believers who do not have access to "the Word," who are illerate, isolated, or mentally unable to read?

~Jim


.

I assume that when you say "the Word" you are referring to the scriptures. However, as has been noted before, the Word is not just the scriptures. The Word is actually a person, and His name is Jesus. The scriptures are the image of the Son, much as Jesus is the image of the Father.

This is the same as asking, 'how can people get saved that have not heard the Word', when Paul makes it clear in Romans 10:9-10 that it is the preaching of the Word that gives us the opportunity to believe. If you believe that God gives special revelation to those in such a position for the purpose of salvation, then it isn't much of a stretch to say He also gives them special revelation for instruction in His Word.

I am not making the case for that here, just saying that the two are interconnected.

But that is really a different subject altogether.

Peace...

 

[franky67]

Heb 12:6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth,
and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.




You've come up with one definition for "chasteneth" that simply means "instruction" (though Strong's says it's in a disciplinary manner); what are your thoughts on the word "scourgeth"??


FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES,
AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES.” nasb

because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son. niv

For the Lord corrects and disciplines everyone whom He loves, and He punishes, even scourges, every son whom He accepts and welcomes to His heart and cherishes. amp

That word scourgeth is given in Strongs as used either literally or figuratively.

So are you insisting that God will whip you just like Jesus was whipped?

I must repeat, and ask , Why aren't you all getting the message God is giving you, He treats those in Christ, just exactly like you would treat your children, when teaching them lessons, you don't give your children an infection, or break his arm, or blind him to teach him a lesson. How could God make it any plainer ?

 

[Simon Peter]

It seems pretty plain to me that the chastening of the Lord is the instruction or reproof of the Word of God. It certainly isn't anywhere referenced as sickness or other evil in the New Testament that I am aware of.

I think you are trying to say that the word 'chasten' in Hebrews is used elsewhere as 'instruction', therefore Hebrews should mean instruction?

But there's three problems:


1. You failed to mention the word "scourgeth" which clearly is not mere "instruction" it actually means to flog, and even a figurative flogging from the Lord is not "instruction":

Heb 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth,G3811 and scourgethG3146 every son whom he receiveth.

G3146
μαστιγόω
mastigoō
mas-tig-o'-o
From G3148; to flog (literally or figuratively): - scourge.





2. You failed to post the dictionary definitions of the words translated as "Chasteneth":


G3809
παιδεία
paideia
pahee-di'-ah
From G3811; tutorage, that is, education or training; by implication disciplinary correction: - chastening, chastisement, instruction, nurture.


G3810
παιδευτής
paideutēs
pahee-dyoo-tace'
From G3811; a trainer, that is, teacher or (by implication) discipliner: - which corrected, instructor.

G3811
παιδεύω
paideuō
pahee-dyoo'-o
From G3816; to train up a child, that is, educate, or (by implication) discipline (by punishment): - chasten (-ise), instruct, learn, teach.



3. You've been extremely selective in your choice of passages, to the point of being misleading.


Here's some of the passages you failed to share:


A. Do you think Pontus Pilot was going to educate Jesus before he released him.


I will therefore chastise G3811 him, and release him.
Luke 23:16 KJV+



B. Do you think Paul was concerned that people could be educated to the point that they almost died:

9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, G3811 and not killed; G2289
2 Corinthians 6:9 KJV+


C. Were they given over to Satan to be instructed by Satan, or were they going to suffer:

Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn G3811 not to blaspheme.
1 Timothy 1:20 KJV+



peace,
Simon

 

[DYOLF]

1 Cor 11:27 So anyone who eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord unworthily is guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 That is why you should examine yourself before eating the bread and drinking the cup. 29 For if you eat the bread or drink the cup without honoring the body of Christ, you are eating and drinking God’s judgment upon yourself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and sick and some have even died


This is a passage directed at saints, right? Not at a bunch of people who were posing as Christians and going to church and taking communion because it was the thing to do.


Then there's the passage Faulty mentioned earlier:


Rev 2:20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality. 22 Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.


Is this simply a threat of God's wrath, or can we consider any of it as correction? The people who followed Jezebel He calls "My bond-servants", so it definitely applies to saints.

I imagine more will come to mind later...

Hallelua

 

[DYOLF]

Heb 12:6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth,
and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.


You've come up with one definition for "chasteneth" that simply means "instruction" (though Strong's says it's in a disciplinary manner); what are your thoughts on the word "scourgeth"??


FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES,
AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES.” nasb

because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son. niv

For the Lord corrects and disciplines everyone whom He loves, and He punishes, even scourges, every son whom He accepts and welcomes to His heart and cherishes. amp

Thank you

 

[DYOLF]

I think you are trying to say that the word 'chasten' in Hebrews is used elsewhere as 'instruction', therefore Hebrews should mean instruction?

But there's three problems:


1. You failed to mention the word "scourgeth" which clearly is not mere "instruction" it actually means to flog, and even a figurative flogging from the Lord is not "instruction":

Heb 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth,G3811 and scourgethG3146 every son whom he receiveth.

G3146
μαστιγόω
mastigoō
mas-tig-o'-o
From G3148; to flog (literally or figuratively): - scourge.





2. You failed to post the dictionary definitions of the words translated as "scourgeth":


G3809
παιδεία
paideia
pahee-di'-ah
From G3811; tutorage, that is, education or training; by implication disciplinary correction: - chastening, chastisement, instruction, nurture.


G3810
παιδευτής
paideutēs
pahee-dyoo-tace'
From G3811; a trainer, that is, teacher or (by implication) discipliner: - which corrected, instructor.

G3811
παιδεύω
paideuō
pahee-dyoo'-o
From G3816; to train up a child, that is, educate, or (by implication) discipline (by punishment): - chasten (-ise), instruct, learn, teach.



3. You've been extremely selective in your choice of passages, to the point of being misleading.


Here's some of the passages you failed to share:


A. Do you think Pontus Pilot was going to educate Jesus before he released him.


I will therefore chastise G3811 him, and release him.
Luke 23:16 KJV+



B. Do you think Paul was concerned that people could be educated to the point that they almost died:

9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, G3811 and not killed; G2289
2 Corinthians 6:9 KJV+


C. Were they given over to Satan to be instructed by Satan, or were going to suffer:

Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn G3811 not to blaspheme.
1 Timothy 1:20 KJV+



peace,
Simon

I find this to be very insightful, thank you for sharing

 

[Laura Phillips]

lets be honest it sucks.

 

[DYOLF]

Chastening is never enjoyable but the results can be great.Every tree that bears fruit is pruned so it can bear more fruit and if he loves you he will chasten you otherwise you will be a bastard.

 

[JimB]

DK, I love you and all, but this is a real stretch. Peter said that God's chastenings are somewhat like a natural father's chastening, it can be "painful." Here's what Hebrews says,

7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. (Hebrews 12)
​

I agree, that we can find refproof and correction from the Word but I also know, having preached literally thousands of sermons, that the Word has no effect on some people. It rolls off them like water on an oil slick. In fact, sad to say, most Christians I have encountered are pretty dim on their understanding of the Word. So, God chastens them in a, well, more painfully and demonstrative way. When God chastened the Corinthians some even died.

27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. (1 Cor. 11)
​

~Jim

 

[Svt4Him]

I think you are trying to say that the word 'chasten' in Hebrews is used elsewhere as 'instruction', therefore Hebrews should mean instruction?

But there's three problems:


1. You failed to mention the word "scourgeth" which clearly is not mere "instruction" it actually means to flog, and even a figurative flogging from the Lord is not "instruction":

Heb 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth,G3811 and scourgethG3146 every son whom he receiveth.

G3146
μαστιγόω
mastigoō
mas-tig-o'-o
From G3148; to flog (literally or figuratively): - scourge.





2. You failed to post the dictionary definitions of the words translated as "Chasteneth":


G3809
παιδεία
paideia
pahee-di'-ah
From G3811; tutorage, that is, education or training; by implication disciplinary correction: - chastening, chastisement, instruction, nurture.


G3810
παιδευτής
paideutēs
pahee-dyoo-tace'
From G3811; a trainer, that is, teacher or (by implication) discipliner: - which corrected, instructor.

G3811
παιδεύω
paideuō
pahee-dyoo'-o
From G3816; to train up a child, that is, educate, or (by implication) discipline (by punishment): - chasten (-ise), instruct, learn, teach.



3. You've been extremely selective in your choice of passages, to the point of being misleading.


Here's some of the passages you failed to share:


A. Do you think Pontus Pilot was going to educate Jesus before he released him.


I will therefore chastise G3811 him, and release him.
Luke 23:16 KJV+



B. Do you think Paul was concerned that people could be educated to the point that they almost died:

9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, G3811 and not killed; G2289
2 Corinthians 6:9 KJV+


C. Were they given over to Satan to be instructed by Satan, or were they going to suffer:

Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn G3811 not to blaspheme.
1 Timothy 1:20 KJV+



peace,
Simon

It's moments like this I really enjoy coming here. This is well thought out, and well put, so even if one feels they disagree, they can because it's very civil discourse. Great job.

 

[JimB]

I think you are trying to say that the word 'chasten' in Hebrews is used elsewhere as 'instruction', therefore Hebrews should mean instruction?

But there's three problems:


1. You failed to mention the word "scourgeth" which clearly is not mere "instruction" it actually means to flog, and even a figurative flogging from the Lord is not "instruction":

Heb 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth,G3811 and scourgethG3146 every son whom he receiveth.

G3146
μαστιγόω
mastigoō
mas-tig-o'-o
From G3148; to flog (literally or figuratively): - scourge.





2. You failed to post the dictionary definitions of the words translated as "Chasteneth":


G3809
παιδεία
paideia
pahee-di'-ah
From G3811; tutorage, that is, education or training; by implication disciplinary correction: - chastening, chastisement, instruction, nurture.


G3810
παιδευτής
paideutēs
pahee-dyoo-tace'
From G3811; a trainer, that is, teacher or (by implication) discipliner: - which corrected, instructor.

G3811
παιδεύω
paideuō
pahee-dyoo'-o
From G3816; to train up a child, that is, educate, or (by implication) discipline (by punishment): - chasten (-ise), instruct, learn, teach.



3. You've been extremely selective in your choice of passages, to the point of being misleading.


Here's some of the passages you failed to share:


A. Do you think Pontus Pilot was going to educate Jesus before he released him.


I will therefore chastise G3811 him, and release him.
Luke 23:16 KJV+



B. Do you think Paul was concerned that people could be educated to the point that they almost died:

9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, G3811 and not killed; G2289
2 Corinthians 6:9 KJV+


C. Were they given over to Satan to be instructed by Satan, or were they going to suffer:

Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn G3811 not to blaspheme.
1 Timothy 1:20 KJV+



peace,
Simon

 

[DYOLF]

I was reading the book of Matthew and mark the other day.There's a place when Pilate released Barnabas but Jesus was scourged before being delivered for crucifixion.With this thread in mind I could picture Pilate sitting down with Jesus telling him words the way God scourges us with his word.Still somehow I was not satisfied then I checked what that scourged meant and this is what I found.
g5417. ????????? phragelloo?; from a presumed equivalent of the Latin flagellum; to whip, i.e. lash as a public punishment: -- scourge.