THE CHANGING OF GOD'S SABBATH TO SUNDAY WORSHIP?

[SabbathBlessings]

My biggest fear regarding the Sabbath keeping is, I've never seen any SDA or anyone else truly keep it as the commandment outlines, so I worry about my SDA friends when they condemn others and don't keep the Sabbath either. (Rom 2:1-2)
And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.
(Numbers 15:32-36)
Miserable existence if any lives North of the 20th parallel.
Not trying to be difficult.

I would like to ask how do you know SDA’s or other Sabbath keepers are not keeping the Sabbath Holy. That seems like such a general statement. There are 22 million Adventist alone across the world. I was raised Adventist and I’m lucky if I personally know 100. When I see my fellow Adventist at church I have no idea how they are keeping the rest of the Sabbath, but I would like to assume keeping it Holy the way God has asked. Not sure where you’re getting your information from, unless you have some kind of tracking device implanted in all SDA’s and other Sabbath keepers. It’s an interesting statement.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I would like to ask how do you know SDA’s or other Sabbath keepers are not keeping the Sabbath Holy. That seems like such a general statement. There are 22 million Adventist alone across the world. I was raised Adventist and I’m lucky if I personally know 100. When I see my fellow Adventist at church I have no idea how they are keeping the rest of the Sabbath, but I would like to assume keeping it Holy the way God has asked. Not sure where you’re getting your information from, unless you have some kind of tracking device implanted in all SDA’s and other Sabbath keepers. It’s an interesting statement.

When I read similar statements like the one your responding to I cannot help but be drawn to the gospels where the Scribes and Pharisees accused JESUS of breaking the Sabbath as well. Yet he was the Lord and creator of it. According to the Scribes and Pharisees Jesus was not keeping the Sabbath yet it was their unbiblical interpretation of the Sabbath that stopped them from receiving God's Word on how to keep the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12. I think there is a lesson here. The only difference today is that we have those who do not keep God's Sabbath accusing those who do keep God's commandments through faith because they love Jesus of breaking the Sabbath. Same old accusations and claims I guess. Maybe there is a beam that needs to be removed that is stopping the eyes from seeing God's Word clearly. How can those who are breaking the Sabbath claim to teach those who are through faith in Gods' Word trying to keep the Sabbath of breaking the Sabbath when they are not keeping the Sabbath?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

When I read similar statements like the one your responding to I cannot help but be drawn to the gospels where the Scribes and Pharisees accused JESUS of breaking the Sabbath as well. Yet he was the Lord and creator of it. According to the Scribes and Pharisees Jesus was not keeping the Sabbath yet it was their unbiblical interpretation of the Sabbath that stopped them from receiving God's Word on how to keep the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12. I think there is a lesson here. The only difference today is that we have those who do not keep God's Sabbath accusing those who do keep God's commandments through faith because they love Jesus of breaking the Sabbath. Same old accusations and claims I guess. Maybe there is a beam that needs to be removed that is stopping the eyes from seeing God's Word clearly. How can those who are breaking the Sabbath claim to teach those who are through faith in Gods' Word trying to keep the Sabbath of breaking the Sabbath when they are not keeping the Sabbath?

I agree. The stories in the Bible are not much different than today. History does have a way of repeating itself. I find it a bit fascinating how scripture can be interpreted so many ways. I think the first step in understanding the scriptures is allowing God to lead your life. Take away the the balance beam and set your eyes on Him and go. What people may not realize is God wants us happy. Following Him, obeying His commands and making Him first in our life leads to happiness, not the opposite, but unless you free yourself and fully trust in Him, its hard for others to experience it so therefore, they think following Gods laws is a punishment, when its the opposite. God bless

 

[EJ M]

I would like to ask how do you know SDA’s or other Sabbath keepers are not keeping the Sabbath Holy. That seems like such a general statement. There are 22 million Adventist alone across the world. I was raised Adventist and I’m lucky if I personally know 100. When I see my fellow Adventist at church I have no idea how they are keeping the rest of the Sabbath, but I would like to assume keeping it Holy the way God has asked. Not sure where you’re getting your information from, unless you have some kind of tracking device implanted in all SDA’s and other Sabbath keepers. It’s an interesting statement.

Hi
To answer your question, refer to my statement, “I have never seen.”
I don’t pretend to know all about every SDA or SD Baptist or any other SD keeper, or anyone else for that matter.
Hopefully you didn’t get that impression from anything I wrote.
It’s just when I see parking lots filled with SDAs and have never seen any shy away from kindling a fire in their car it worries me.
Not condemning, not judging, only worried.
I know some dear people that condemn others for not keeping the Sabbath and ignore the details provided in Holy Writ for Sabbath keeping.
But I also know my Savior is merciful and kind.
And He will sort it out.
Blessings be upon you and yours.

 

[EJ M]

Hi EM J,

You don't keep the Sabbath because you are concerned with how others are or are not keeping it, you should keep it because you love God and God asked each of us to keep His seventh day Sabbath Holy. The only thing that matters is your relationship with God and how you love, obey, and know Him on a personal level.

God bless.

Hello
I don’t keep the Jewish Sabbath because of the Word of God.
Chiefly Acts 15 where the four things brought over from the law of Moses but the Sabbath commandment was not included for us Gentile believers.
If that scripture included Sabbath keeping, I would never live North of the 20th parallel, or South of the 20th parallel,
I would go out to the main breaker and turn it off and I would buy everything I need for Sabbath before sundown Friday. I would never cook anything on Sabbath or kindle a fire for any reason.
I would never start an internal combustion engine.
I would shut all communication and media off on Friday at sundown so I am not buying on the Sabbath.
All these are expressly forbidden in God’s commandments for the Jews.
Jesus was condemned for not keeping the Sabbath, but it wasn’t that He didn’t keep the Sabbath according to he law of Moses.
He didn’t keep the Sabbath according to the legalist’s interpretation of the law of Moses.
Peace and blessings be upon you and yours as you serve Him alone.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hello
I don’t keep the Jewish Sabbath because of the Word of God.
Chiefly Acts 15 where the four things brought over from the law of Moses but the Sabbath commandment was not included for us Gentile believers.
If that scripture included Sabbath keeping, I would never live North of the 20th parallel, or South of the 20th parallel,
I would go out to the main breaker and turn it off and I would buy everything I need for Sabbath before sundown Friday. I would never cook anything on Sabbath or kindle a fire for any reason.
I would never start an internal combustion engine.
I would shut all communication and media off on Friday at sundown so I am not buying on the Sabbath.
All these are expressly forbidden in God’s commandments for the Jews.
Jesus was condemned for not keeping the Sabbath, but it wasn’t that He didn’t keep the Sabbath according to he law of Moses.
He didn’t keep the Sabbath according to the legalist’s interpretation of the law of Moses.
Peace and blessings be upon you and yours as you serve Him alone.

There is no such thing as the Jewish Sabbath. Also the 10 commandments are God's commandments, not the law of Moses. God both spoke and wrote His laws because of its significance. God created the Sabbath at creation before any Jews Genesis 2:3. Jesus also clearly kept the Sabbath and His disciples and we are told to follow Him. Jesus said Mathew 2:27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Man = all.

When you read these verses does this apply only to Jews? Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Seems like you are falling into that trap of just thinking about all the things you can't do on Sabbath instead of the things you can do like worship Him, do good, study the Bible, Bible lessons, fellowship, sing songs to Him, pray, it's really a blessing you're missing out on. God tells us we need to know Him. That's why the 4th commandment is so important because every week, you spend 24 hours resting, keeping His day Holy and building your relationship with Him. Mathew 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? 23: And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

God bless

 

[EJ M]

There is no such thing as the Jewish Sabbath. Also the 10 commandments are God's commandments, not the law of Moses. God both spoke and wrote His laws because of its significance. Jesus created the Sabbath at creation before any Jews Genesis 2:3. Jesus also clearly kept the Sabbath as His disciples and we are told to follow Him. Jesus said Mathew 2:27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Man = all.

When you read this verse does this apply only to Jews? Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Seems like you are falling into that trap of just thinking about all the things you can't do on Sabbath instead of the things you can do like worship Him, do good, study the Bible, Bible lessons, fellowship, sing songs to Him, pray, it's really a blessing you're missing out on.

God bless

Thanks for the encouragement
I’ll ponder what you wrote.
Peace

 

[Gary O']

Well, I tried reading every post...got weary.
Hope I'm not being repetitive

Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.
For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Couple things do it for me in regard to Sabbath keeping;

1) God thought we might forget
2) The fourth commandment is the only one that talks about Him being The Creator

Now, I'm a bit rough around the edges, but seems pretty clear why we need to keep that day.
It's the celebration of creation
Of which the big liar chafed at back in Eden

I've toiled for over sixty years, working ever day
Then, started resting ever seven.....on the seventh day, since that's what I saw in The Book.
It works
I get more done in six than I ever got done in seven
And that rest day really frees up some time to take in creation

The only thing that worked on that day was the ol' Nikon

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Well, I tried reading every post...got weary.
Hope I'm not being repetitive

Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.
For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Couple things do it for me in regard to Sabbath keeping;

1) God thought we might forget
2) The fourth commandment is the only one that talks about Him being The Creator

Now, I'm a bit rough around the edges, but seems pretty clear why we need to keep that day.
It's the celebration of creation
Of which the big liar chafed at back in Eden

I've toiled for over sixty years, working ever day
Then, started resting ever seven.....on the seventh day, since that's what I saw in The Book.
It works
I get more done in six than I ever got done in seven
And that rest day really frees up some time to take in creation

The only thing that worked on that day was the ol' Nikon

View attachment 291923



View attachment 291924

Welcome Gary and nice to meet you.

So nice to see someone studying God's Word for themselves. Thanks for sharing your view with us. Must have been a challenge to read near every post without falling asleep but nice to see God leading you. Also, nice photos. Thanks for sharing,

God bless.

 

[HIM]

Hi
To answer your question, refer to my statement, “I have never seen.”
I don’t pretend to know all about every SDA or SD Baptist or any other SD keeper, or anyone else for that matter.
Hopefully you didn’t get that impression from anything I wrote.
It’s just when I see parking lots filled with SDAs and have never seen any shy away from kindling a fire in their car it worries me.
Not condemning, not judging, only worried.
I know some dear people that condemn others for not keeping the Sabbath and ignore the details provided in Holy Writ for Sabbath keeping.
But I also know my Savior is merciful and kind.
And He will sort it out.
Blessings be upon you and yours.

You misunderstand a lot and can't be told anything.
Take care.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Well, I tried reading every post...got weary.
Hope I'm not being repetitive

Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.
For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Couple things do it for me in regard to Sabbath keeping;

1) God thought we might forget
2) The fourth commandment is the only one that talks about Him being The Creator

Now, I'm a bit rough around the edges, but seems pretty clear why we need to keep that day.
It's the celebration of creation
Of which the big liar chafed at back in Eden

I've toiled for over sixty years, working ever day
Then, started resting ever seven.....on the seventh day, since that's what I saw in The Book.
It works
I get more done in six than I ever got done in seven
And that rest day really frees up some time to take in creation

The only thing that worked on that day was the ol' Nikon

View attachment 291923



View attachment 291924

Lovely photos! I love being in nature- it shows just how awesome our God is.

God bless

 

[Kilk1]

Good for you Kilk1, may God bless you as you prayerfully seek him through his Word

God bless

Here's a question: Does Romans 7:7 shows that the law actually isn't sin itself after all? It reads, "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! ..." (NKJV, emphasis mine). While Romans 6 makes clear we've died to sin, it appears Romans 7 makes clear that we also died to "the law" (7:4) and that the law is not sin (v. 7). Paul finishes verse 7 saying, "...On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, 'You shall not covet.'" In other words, the law's commands, such as, "You shall not covet," caused him to know that various acts such as covetousness were sinful and forbidden. "But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead" (v. 8).

So putting it all together: Christians die to sin (Rom. 6). They also die to the law (7:4), which is not sin (7:7) but, through commandments such as "You shall not covet," made sins known (vv. 7-8). Would this be the Scriptural position?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Here's a question: Does Romans 7:7 shows that the law actually isn't sin itself after all? It reads, "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! ..." (NKJV, emphasis mine). While Romans 6 makes clear we've died to sin, it appears Romans 7 makes clear that we also died to "the law" (7:4) and that the law is not sin (v. 7). Paul finishes verse 7 saying, "...On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, 'You shall not covet.'" In other words, the law's commands, such as, "You shall not covet," caused him to know that various acts such as covetousness were sinful and forbidden. "But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead" (v. 8). So putting it all together: Christians die to sin (Rom. 6). They also die to the law (7:4), which is not sin (7:7) but, through commandments such as "You shall not covet," made sins known (vv. 7-8). Would this be the Scriptural position?

Hello Kilk, nice to see you again

Romans 7:7 show that God's 10 commandments are not sin but they give us the knowledge of what sin is. So in regards to Romans 7:4 it is not the law that we die to but sin that the law reveals and seeking to get our righteousness from the law. This is further clarified in Romans 7:5-6 where it says for when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit (sin) to death (Romans 6:23). But now we are delivered from the laws (condemnation), that being dead wherein we were held (sin); that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. This is the law of sin and death being described here that Gods' law gives us a knowledge of as shown in Romans 7:7. We cannot get our righteousness through the law but only in the body of Christ though the Spirit. God's law (God's 10 commandments) is not sin and death it is holy just and good giving us the knowledge of what sin is *Romans 7:7; 12. It is sin we are to die to not the 10 commandments *Romans 6:1-23. The law (10 commandments) only gives is the knowledge of what sin is *Romans 7:7. Paul is talking about the law of sin and death in Romans 7:4 that is in his members causing him to sin Romans 7:23 that is against him obeying God's law (10 commandments) and it is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus that saves is from sin as we believe and follow God's Word which establishes God's law in those who believe Gods' Word *Romans 8:1-4; 1 John 5:4.

God bless.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The history of Sunday worship as outlined there includes some liberties that most scholars wouldn’t take. But regarding the sun worship issue specifically, I still don’t see the point, to be honest again, of bringing it up, the point behind the reasoning for quoting this statement, for example: If Sunday worship admittedly plays no part in actual sun worship, or in any other pagan Babylonian practice for that matter, then what is meant to be implied here?? Sunday worship became virtually universal even in those places outside of Rome’s influence, even in places where schism had occurred between Rome and other churches long before. And, again, Constantine legitimized all religions with the Edict of Milan as well as having his own pet view of Arianism, which he favored, soundly denounced by the very council he helped put together for the purpose of deciding the matter, where the doctrine of the Trinity was produced which Rome still holds and teaches to this day! So much for “Unite with the bishop of Rome or be destroyed,”.

Post # 2 mainly provides historical references on Sunday worship entering the Roman empire and the early Church. As posted earlier no one said sun-worship is taught in the Church only that some of the practices adopted by the Church have their origin from paganism and sun-worship.

The truth is that all the teachings of Rome, as well as in the east, are consistent and are virtually all traceable back to the early church. So we have a church that teaches the deity of Jesus, the doctrine of the Trinity, the nicene creed, the obligation of man to be personally righteous, to obey the law as defined especially by the Ten Commandments. And these are not all accepted by all Protestant churches even as they are taught by the SDA church. Most notably, confusion over the place of the law is rampant in Protestant theology whereas in Catholicism it’s taught that the law must be fulfilled in order to gain eternal life but by the power of the Spirit now, by grace, motivated by the love that He pours into our hearts (Rom 5:5) under the New Covenant. Quite Babylonian there. So you end up straining out a gnat IMO, with the insistence that Sunday worship is a deal breaker because it points to all kinds of other abuses, abuses that simply don’t exist.

Not really dear friend. Of course these abuses of scripture exist. That is why history and scripture have been provided to show them in the OP here. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them. What is the use of a Church making a claim of teaching God's ten commandments yet making idols and putting them in a Church and bowing down to them, veneration and praying to dead so called saints, incorporating pagan icons into the Church or encouraging people to break God's "seventh day" Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments in favor of a man-made teaching and traditions that has led many to break the commandments of God? Knowingly breaking anyone of God's 10 commandment is sin according to the scriptures and Jesus (not me) says if we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. So if Jesus says it then it certainly sounds like a deal breaker in my view. Let's be honest how please. BABYLON has fallen. God is calling his people out of following man made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God. Our God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth.

 

[fhansen]

Post # 2 mainly provides historical references on Sunday worship entering the Roman empire and the early Church. As posted earlier no one said sun-worship is taught in the Church only that some of the practices adopted by the Church have their origin from paganism and sun-worship..

I see, so there’s no actual rhyme, reason, or logic for bringing up sun worship or paganism, no intention to imply that the church and her beliefs and practices were actually influenced or changed by these things, only that, incidentally and by happenstance the church chose the day of the sun to rest and and worship rather than the day of Saturn to do so.

Not really dear friend. Of course these abuses of scripture exist. That is why history and scripture have been provided to show them in the OP here. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them. What is the use of a Church making a claim of teaching God's ten commandments yet making idols and putting them in a Church and bowing down to them, veneration and praying to dead so called saints, incorporating pagan icons into the Church or encouraging people to break God's "seventh day" Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments in favor of a man-made teaching and traditions that has led many to break the commandments of God? Knowingly breaking anyone of God's 10 commandment is sin according to the scriptures and Jesus (not me) says if we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. So if Jesus says it then it certainly sounds like a deal breaker in my view. Let's be honest how please. BABYLON has fallen. God is calling his people out of following man made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God. Our God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth.

No one worships idols in the Catholic Church, certainly not according to any church teaching. There was controversy surrounding graven images that was addressed centuries ago at council and it was recognized and acknowledged back then that the command against fashioning graven images was consistent with all the first commandments against worshipping anyone or anything but God alone, first above all else. The Jews had been influenced by paganism to fashion golden calves, for example, and then bow down before and worship them. That concept is totally foreign and objectionable within a Catholic church. The production of statues and paintings or icons is no different from the cherubim that God commissioned to be made for the ark of the covenant or Moses' bronze serpent; they're not objects of worship.

And God is always calling His people to renewal and increased holiness-and chastising His people who's sins will be made known. The church will always consist of sinners and saints. We don't need to add more churches because of it tho. What we have here is the case of people reading and interpreting the Bible centuries after the fact and deciding, on that basis alone, God’s will for man, vs also considering the lived experience of the church He established. The practice of Sunday worship didn’t happen in a vacuum, nor did it consist of a sudden, blatant, about-face. Rather it was “inherited”, so to speak, by the church from early on. And Scripture can well be vague or silent on the topic; it was never intended to serve as some kind of exhaustive catechism which is why many beliefs and practices are not perfectly explicit in the Bible. And those early believers were not ignorant of the Old Testament, or the Old Covenant, or the "old way", nor was anyone then or later filled with evil intentions to corrupt church teachings or practice licentiousness. They were simply free, within boundaries, to live their relationship with God in a new way, the right way.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I see, so there’s no actual rhyme, reason, or logic for bringing up sun worship or paganism, no intention to imply that the church and her beliefs and practices were actually influenced or changed by these things, only that, incidentally and by happenstance the church chose the day of the sun to rest and and worship rather than the day of Saturn to do so.


God is always calling His people to renewal and increased holiness. The church will always consist of sinners and saints. We don't need to add more churches over it tho. What we have here is the case of people reading and interpreting the Bible centuries after the fact and deciding, on that basis alone, God’s will for man, vs also considering the lived experience of the church He established. The practice of Sunday worship didn’t happen in a vacuum, nor did it consist of a sudden, blatant, about-face. Rather it was “inherited”, so to speak, by the church from early on. And Scripture can well be vague or silent on the topic; it was never intended to serve as some kind of exhaustive catechism which is why many beliefs and practices are not perfectly explicit in the Bible.

God not only spoke, He wrote which day is His Sabbath. Man has no business changing God's Holy day especially when He asked us to remember it.

Exodus 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

As stated in this commandment, He is our Creator who made all things including the day He designated as Holy and asked us to remember, which is the opposite of forgot, change or do away with.

 

[fhansen]

God who not only spoke, He wrote which day is His Sabbath. Man has no business changing God's Holy day especially when He asked us to remember it.

Exodus 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

As stated in this commandment, He is our Creator who made all things including the day He designated as Holy and asked us to remember, which is the opposite of forgot, change or do away with.

Lot's of things were changed with the New Covenant. And we simply have to look towards the church to resolve certain questions. Is man still obligated to obey the the commandments, apart from the rest of the law? Many say, based on Scripture alone, that we either obey the whole law perfectly or there's no reason to obey any of it. Faith sort of replaces our need to be obedient and personally righteous in their minds. Or some may say that as long as we love we don't need to be aware of any laws. And while that may be technically correct, who loves so perfectly as to obey perfectly and therefore have no need to be reminded of his disobedience or lawlessness?

So the church tells us we must obey those commandments in order to be considered just or righteous (declared righteous, Rom 2:13) in the eyes of God, whether or not we like the way she treats the 4th commandment (or third depending on numbering). And the church, before we may have opportunity or reason to question it, tells us that Jesus Christ is God incarnate. And the church assembled the New Testament that we all accept today. And the church tells us that we must be born of water -and not amniotic fluid- along with spirit in order to be born again. And the church tells us that our wills are involved in some manner or another in our salvation even if none of it can possibly be accomplished apart from grace, apart from God. And the church teaches that we can turn back away from God and forfeit our state of justice and therefore our salvation but that we can still always turn back again with a changed and repentant heart, and re-enter God's fold. Virtually all of this and much more is argued in opposing ways based on Scripture alone among Sola Scriptura adherents.

And the church can also teach this one truth, quoted from a 16th century believer, that, properly understood, sums up God's will with the New Covenant:
"At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."

 

[fhansen]

God who not only spoke, He wrote which day is His Sabbath. Man has no business changing God's Holy day especially when He asked us to remember it.

Yes, only God could do it.

 

[Kilk1]

Hello Kilk, nice to see you again

Romans 7:7 show that God's 10 commandments are not sin but they give us the knowledge of what sin is. So in regards to Romans 7:4 it is not the law that we die to but sin that the law reveals. This is further clarified in Romans 7:5-6 where it says for when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit (sin) to death (Romans 6:23). But now we are delivered from the laws (condemnation), that being dead wherein we were held (sin); that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. This is the law of sin and death being described here that Gods' law gives us a knowledge of as shown in Romans 7:7. God's law (God's 10 commandments) is not sin and death it is holy just and good giving us the knowledge of what sin is *Romans 7:7; 12. It is sin we are to die to not the 10 commandments *Romans 6:1-23. The law (10 commandments) only gives is the knowledge of what sin is *Romans 7:7. Paul is talking about the law of sin and death in Romans 7:4 that is in his members causing him to sin Romans 7:23 that is against him obeying God's law (10 commandments) and it is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus that saves is from sin as we believe and follow God's Word which establishes God's law in those who believe Gods' Word *Romans 8:1-4; 1 John 5:4.

God bless.

Here are two questions I have. Answering each question individually would help me understand what you're saying.

1. Have we "become dead to the law" (Rom. 7:4, NKJV)?
2. Did the law say, "You shall not covet" (Rom. 7:7, NKJV)?

Thanks,
Kilk

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Here are two questions I have. Answering each question individually would help me understand what you're saying.

1. Have we "become dead to the law" (Rom. 7:4, NKJV)?
2. Did the law say, "You shall not covet" (Rom. 7:7, NKJV)?

Thanks,
Kilk

Hello Kilk,

Lets add the rest of the scripture back in.

1. Have we "become dead to the law (Rom. 7:4, NKJV)?

Romans 7:4 Why, my brothers, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit to God.

Yes dear friend we have become dead to the law for righteousness through the body of Christ.

.................

First note the context is to the example given of marriage. Note also the context of Romans 7:4 is to the target audience of "those who know the law" (Jews) Romans 7:1. For me I believe Romans 7:1-25 is an example of the two covenants of the "letter of the law" and the "Spirit of the law" and salvation though faith in Gods' Word (the body of Christ).

So Paul is saying simply that we do not get our righteousness through the law (first husband marriage). The purpose of God's law is to give us a knowledge of what sin is *Romans 7:7. We are to die to the law for righteousness to be married to another and seek Gods righteousness through the death of JESUS (body of Christ) - Read now Romans 8:1-4.

This is not saying as some teach that God's 10 commandments are abolished. It is simply stating that our righteousness is only in Christ and not the law and that the only purpose of God's law is to give us the knowledge of what sin is. Paul goes on to state in Romans 8:1-4 that those in Christ through the Spirit have God's law established in their lives. (see also Romans 3:31 and Galatians 5:16).

Does that make more sense?

................

2. Did the law say, "You shall not covet"?

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet.

Yes dear friend, the law is not sin and death it gives us the knowledge of what sin is and is holy, just and good v12

Romans 7:13 Was then that which is good (10 commandments) made death to me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Now read everything together Romans 6, Romans 7 and Romans 8.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.