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The canon and furlough

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Hmmm!, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. Hmmm!

    Hmmm! Active Member

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    I'm sure this is not worth a new thread but, dare I say it, I've just had what may be (possibly!) a spiritual insight.

    I live in the UK and I've been furloughed for the last four months (at least, losing track of time!). I had a call from my boss today and he was umming and ahhing about future plans and I asked him, if it came to it, how would he select who to keep and who to let go. And he said that it's not really a case of him selecting people but more that certain people select themselves.

    It made me think of the claims I've read here that "We're the True Church because we selected what documents and letters went into making up the New Testament canon."

    Isn't it the reality that these documents selected themselves on merit and their membership only required rubber stamping?
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
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  2. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Yes! The group that got together just checked out what all the churches at the time had accepted and rejected, so the choice was already made for them (really what the Holy Spirit had let the believers to accept and reject).
     
  3. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    A thing can not sellect itself. Even after the early canon was selected by the church, there were still some books not considered scripture which was later included like the book of Revelation.
     
  4. Melody Suttles

    Melody Suttles SingPeace Supporter

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    Some fun facts ...


    1. The books considered authoritative were either written by an apostle or by one close to an apostle. For example, the four New Testament gospels are the only historical documents that can be shown, with certainty, to be first-century documents. All the other supposed “gospels” were composed well into the second and third centuries. The New Testament gospels were basically eye-witness accounts.

    2. The books considered as Holy Scripture were consistent with both the Old Testament and with the teachings of the Apostles. Even a cursory reading of the books not included in the canon reveals that most were written with a Gnostic bias.

    3. The books included in the Bible were the ones which experienced widespread use in the churches. Some books just stood head and shoulders above the rest. To put it another way, the cream rose to the top. These particular books stood out as “God-breathed” while others did not.

    4. Persecution quickly determined which books were more likely God-breathed than others. Some books were more easily surrendered to persecuting soldiers—others were worth dying for. . . . by the early fourth century the 27 books now included in the New Testament were first mentioned in a list by the Council of Nicaea as being God-breathed.

    taken from:
    https://www.crosswalk.com/church/pastors-or-leadership/ask-roger/final-cut-how-were-the-books-in-the-new-testament-chosen.html
     
  5. Hmmm!

    Hmmm! Active Member

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    They were fun and interesting facts!

    Do you or anyone know if everything written by the apostles was included in the New Testament or if any writings exist outside it?

    If everything was included was this simply because was they were the product of witnesses to the risen Lord?
     
  6. Hmmm!

    Hmmm! Active Member

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    Not literally but isn't it a bit like how a manager selects a football team for a game? Don't the players, at least the best ones, select themselves? Presumably the manager automatically includes their stat players without having to think about it.
     
  7. Melody Suttles

    Melody Suttles SingPeace Supporter

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    I think I would have to encourage you to rethink your position; at least in a literal sense. To help make my point, here are just a few people from Jesus' own bloodline and genealogy.


    David - a rapist, adulterer and murderer.
    Judah - sold his brother Joseph into slavery and raised wicked sons and abandoned his son's widow.
    Rahab - was a prostitute.
    Ahaz - worshiped idols, defiled the holy temple, and sacrificed his son to idols.
    Joash - turned from God to worship idols and had Zechariah stoned to death.
    Solomon - married pagan women against God's wishes, then gave offerings to their idols and "did evil in the sight of the Lord."
     
  8. Hmmm!

    Hmmm! Active Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean? I was still talking about how the NT canon was formed not about people who God chooses to work through which I agree is often the weak and the most apparently unsuitable.
     
  9. Melody Suttles

    Melody Suttles SingPeace Supporter

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    Oh, okay then. I forgot you were speaking of documents and thought you were speaking of men.
     
  10. Jok

    Jok Well-Known Member

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    The majority of the books of the New Testament were never even in dispute, the disputes were over books like Revelation, Jude, and Titus. I actually find it amusing that atheists will go on a war path about how useless the books of the NT are, yet then they will also go on a war path that non-canonical books are just as good. If they find them all useless anyway why would they even care to argue that the canonical books are properly dated in the 1st century, and the non-canonical books aren’t? Basically if you mention anything about the Bible they foam at the mouth to flip out about it.
     
  11. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    The players do not select themselves the administration does.
     
  12. Hmmm!

    Hmmm! Active Member

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    You don't see the point I was making.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  13. tz620q

    tz620q Regular Member Supporter

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    This made me think of the four pillars of the church from the Nicaean Creed. The creed was meant as a statement of belief and about the Church; but in a sense it was also about how the canon was selected too.
    One - there had to be cohesion in teaching between the books
    Holy - you used the term God-breathed.
    Catholic - meaning universal. The books had to be read by the church universally and not just in one church or region
    Apostolic - The teachings in the books needed to be traced back to Christ through the apostles.
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    God is the author of all scripture - 2 Tim 3:16, 2 Peter 1:20-21 so then God selected those texts - and what is more in the NT they had the concept of "All of scripture" as we see in Luke 24.

    27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

    The readers of Luke's gospel understood that term
     
  15. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Witness

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    I am fully persuaded by the accepted canon.
    2 Peter 1:

    3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness,
    through the knowledge of Him who called us to his own glory and excellence,
    4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that
    through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped
    from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.
     
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