The Calvinist Doctrine of Election

[BelindaP]

Calvinists believe that God chose people (or elects them) before the creation of the world. And that He irresistibly draws them to Himself. A site that describes this very well can be found here. Specifically, check out the link called Irresistible grace (Effectual Calling).

A relevant quote from the article is here:

But the surest proof is that of Scripture. This everywhere asserts that the sinner's regeneration is by sovereign, almighty grace. One class of texts presents those which describe the sinner's prior condition as one of "blindness," Ephesians 4:18; "of stony heartedness," Ezekiel 36:26; "of impotency," Romans 5:6; "of enmity," Romans 8:7; "of inability, John 6:44 and Romans 7:18; "of deadness," Ephesians 2:1-5. Let no one exclaim that these are "figures of speech." Surely the Holy Spirit, when resorting to figures for the very purpose of giving a more forcible expression to truth, does not resort to a deceitful rhetoric! Surely he selects his figures because of the correct parallel between them and his truth!

Now, then, the blind man cannot take part in the very operation which is to open his eyes. The hard stone cannot be a source of softness. The helpless paralytic cannot begin his own restoration. Enmity against God cannot choose love for him. The dead corpse of Lazarus could have no agency in recalling the vital spirit into itself. After Christ's almighty power restored it, the living man could respond to the Savior's command and rise and come forth.

The figures which describe the almighty change prove the same truth. It is described (Ps. 119:18) as an opening of the blind eyes to the law; as a new creation; (Ps. 51:10; Eph. 2:5) as a new birth; (Jn. 3:3) as a quickening or resurrection (making alive; Eph. 1:18, and 2:10). The man blind of cataract does not join the surgeon in couching his own eye; nor does the sunbeam begin and perform the surgical operation; that must take place in order for the light to enter and produce vision.

The timber is shaped by the carpenter; it does not shape itself, and does not become an implement until he gives it the desired shape.

The infant does not procreate itself, but must be born of its parents in order to become a living agent.

The corpse does not restore life to itself; after life is restored if becomes a living agent.

Express scriptures teach the same doctrine in Jeremiah 31:18, Ephraim is heard praying thus: "Turn thou me and I shall be turned." In John 1:13, we are taught that believers are born "not of blood, nor of the will of man, nor of the will of the flesh, but of God." In John 6:44, Christ assures us that "No man can come to me except the Father which hath sent me draw him." And in John 15:16, "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that you should go and bring forth fruit." In Ephesians 2:10, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which Christ hath fore ordained that we should walk in them."

 

[BelindaP]

Read what I posted. It explains it better than I can. God elects people from before the start of the world. Those people are saved by His election, long before they ever repent. Once His irresistible grace kicks in, they will be drawn to Him. Some arrive in their youth, others not until they are on their death beds. Regardless of their status at any given point in their lives, they are God's elect and are saved, whether they have gotten around to repenting or not.

 

[drstevej]

The elect, according to Calvinist doctrine are indeed chosen in eternity. They are not saved until the Holy Spirit imparts the gift of faith at the instant of regeneration. At this same instant a person believes. Only the elect undergo this work of God.

Repentance occurs at the point of faith. Some see repentance as a change of mind about Jesus and their sin, others see repentance as a surrender to His Lordship. The later view is that of most Reformed. I take the former view.

Belinda, I would not agree that an elect person is saved prior to regeneration. Is future regeneration and salvation is assured, but it is still future.

 

[BelindaP]

I would argue that they are saved. God has already elected that they be saved, and nothing is going to stop it. We don't have the free will to resist God when He calls to us. We might fight it for a while, but we will succumb in the end.

And, if you want to argue that we might get killed before we succumb, I disagree. God knows ahead of time when we will die. If we are truly elect, He will see to it that we come to faith before we die.

 

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

The elect, according to Calvinist doctrine are indeed chosen in eternity. They are not saved until the Holy Spirit imparts the gift of faith at the instant of regeneration. At this same instant a person believes. Only the elect undergo this work of God.

Repentance occurs at the point of faith. Some see repentance as a change of mind about Jesus and their sin, others see repentance as a surrender to His Lordship. The later view is that of most Reformed. I take the former view.

Belinda, I would not agree that an elect person is saved prior to regeneration. Is future regeneration and salvation is assured, but it is still future.

DrSteve lol... i just mentioned you in a blog a week ago, how the heck are ya dude? REP meh bro REP meh lol

Its great seeing you again

 

[BelindaP]

Nope. I never said that.
In that case, God's grace is abundant, and we can't know whether the person is saved or not. It is between them and their God. I pray for the souls of all those in that situation.

 

[drstevej]

I would argue that they are saved. God has already elected that they be saved, and nothing is going to stop it. We don't have the free will to resist God when He calls to us. We might fight it for a while, but we will succumb in the end.

And, if you want to argue that we might get killed before we succumb, I disagree. God knows ahead of time when we will die. If we are truly elect, He will see to it that we come to faith before we die.

agree

 

[drstevej]

DrSteve lol... i just mentioned you in a blog a week ago, how the heck are ya dude? REP meh bro REP meh lol

Its great seeing you again

hi i sent ya reps

 

[BelindaP]

I'm going to ask you one last time. Stop editing my quotes to twist my words.

 

[CaDan]

Not intending to argue here. Really!

The dispute in soteriology is really the order in which things happen. A Calvinist perspective is that a person who is to be saved is first elected by God for salvation and in recognition of that election, repents. The election, though, is completely the work of God.

The evangelical perspective is more that a person repents, and is then elected by God for salvation. The election, again, is completely the work of God, but it follows upon repentance.

I am not sure which of these perspectives is the "conservative" one. The proponents of both will argue that their perspective is the original gospel and be able to trot out verses to support it. The proponents of both may hold otherwise "conservative" positions on personal ethics.

 

[drstevej]

Not intending to argue here. Really!

The dispute in soteriology is really the order in which things happen. A Calvinist perspective is that a person who is to be saved is first elected by God for salvation and in recognition of that election, repents. The election, though, is completely the work of God.

The evangelical perspective is more that a person repents, and is then elected by God for salvation. The election, again, is completely the work of God, but it follows upon repentance.

I am not sure which of these perspectives is the "conservative" one. The proponents of both will argue that their perspective is the original gospel and be able to trot out verses to support it. The proponents of both may hold otherwise "conservative" positions on personal ethics.

Actually, the evangelical (more properly Arminian) perspective is God elects from eternity those he foresees will exercise faith. This is different from your description.

Theological conservatives hold both views, this is an issue that is not a dividing line. At Dallas Seminary which is clearly a conservative school, some faculty hold one view and others hold the other view.

And the issue is not just ethics that delineates conservatives, there are specific theological issues (e.g. deity of Christ ).

 

[BelindaP]

I think that they could both be considered conservative doctrines. Both sides can fully justify their positions using scripture. And, both views have been around a long time.

 

[BelindaP]

Actually, the evangelical (more properly Arminian) perspective is God elects from eternity those he foresees will exercise faith. This is different from your description.

Theological conservatives hold both views, this is an issue that is not a dividing line. At Dallas Seminary which is clearly a conservative school, some faculty hold one view and others hold the other view.

And the issue is not just ethics that delineates conservatives, there are specific theological issues (e.g. deity of Christ ).

I have heard a lot of folks in real life and on CF say that salvation absolutely cannot occur unless somebody accepts Jesus and repents. They don't believe in election at all. That was the view with which I was raised.

 

[drstevej]

I have heard a lot of folks in real life and on CF say that salvation absolutely cannot occur unless somebody accepts Jesus and repents. They don't believe in election at all. That was the view with which I was raised.

Calvinism agrees that one must believe/repent, but they also teach that is itself is a gift of God.

 

[BelindaP]

Calvinism agrees that one must believe/repent, but they also teach that is itself is a gift of God.

Aye. But, Calvinism allows for God to choose people. Under the sotierology I was raised in, one actually had to do the work of accepting Jesus and repenting before He would save you. In fact, we were Church of Christ, so you could even repent and have faith, but if you didn't get dunked, you were going to hell.

 

[drstevej]

Aye. But, Calvinism allows for God to choose people. Under the sotierology I was raised in, one actually had to do the work of accepting Jesus and repenting before He would save you. In fact, we were Church of Christ, so you could even repent and have faith, but if you didn't get dunked, you were going to hell.

Yep, they teach baptismal regeneration.

 

[BelindaP]

See my Post#3 in this thread for your answer.

 

[drstevej]

Gang, let's tone it down. No need to get wound up.

 

[JustAsIam77]

Here we go. I try mightily to stay away away from these theological perpesctives on the CC forum. I'll let er rip I guess. God only knows where it will end. Forgive me in advance. I know all Christians here are saved, it's merely my take and nothing else.

2 Thess. 2:13: God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

Matt. 24:24: There shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray , if possible, even the elect.

Matt. 24:31: And they (the angels) shall gather together His elect from the four winds , from one end of heaven to the the other.

Mark 13:20: For the elects's sake, whom He chose, He shortened those days (at the destruction of Jerusalem).

1 Thess. 1:4: Knowing, brethren, beloved of God, your election.

Rom. 11:7: The election obtained it, and the rest were hardened.

1 Tim. 5:21: I charge thee in the sight of God, and Jesus Christ, and the elect angels.

Rom 8:33: Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect?

Rom. 11:5: (In comparison with Elijah's time) Even so at the present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

2 Tiim. 2:10: I endure all things for the elect's sake.

Titus 1:1: Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect.

1 Peter 1:1: Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect.

1 Peter 5:13: She that is in Babylon, elect together with you.

1 Peter 2:9: But ye are an elect race.

1 Thess. 5:9: For God appointed us not unto wrath, but unto the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 13:48: And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God; and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

John 17:9: I (Jesus) pray not for the world, but for those whom thou hast given me; for they are thine.

John 6:37: All that the Father giveth me shall come unto me.

John 6:65: No man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.

John 13:18: I speak not of you all; I know whom I have chosen.

John 15:16: Ye did not choose me, but I chose you.

Psalms 105:6: Ye children of Jacob, His chosen ones.

Romans 9:23: Vessels of mercy, which He afore prepared unto glory.

Whew, I'm tired of keyboard typing.

 

[CaDan]

Can someone give me a link to a rule or something that states that the belief that repentance precedes salvation is "conservative"?